Solitary chicken - need advice

[Willow]

I know I posted about this before but I'm going into my YS school soon to talk about the Gifted and Talented scheme and what they could do to stretch the mor academically able (they do nothing today) and it would be really useful to get some idea what other primary schools do

[Tina C]

As far as know, nothing

 

In my experience DDs school just gives children who need it more work to keep on stretching them.

 

Have a friend with a child in another school who has been put on it but they say nothing has come out of it.

[Chickvic]

I keep looking at this and I'm not quite sure what to answer. In all honesty my children's Primary school don't seem to do anything either My DD has been to visit a University but she's still in year 6. Although this year she has had extended maths, literacy and science lessons but I think that's because of the SATS and if she gets very high marks then it looks good for the school.

She starts a senior school in September and talking to their G&T co-ordinator was entirely different, they organise specific days for G&T students it doesn't matter what they are G&T in, and they are on the ball with their tracking of students and how to extend their abilities. I don't know if this is any good to you. How old is your son?

[kitchens]

Same here as far as I know nothing Actually becoming a bit of a problem at our primary school. Can't say I have experience anything negative yet because my son is only in reception but the gossip and the whisperings coming from the junior's is awful. Lots of parents are very concerned that the brigther kids are not being stretched or anyone for that matter. Ofsted has gone from a 1 to a 3 in 2 years. I went to a party the other night and its all anyone ever spoke about.

[Happy chickens!]

I found my son's school to be relatively reasonable. As well as the G&T co-ordinator (now that's a job with my name on it.. ) identifying the right children, they had:

- a maths club, invitation only for fun extension work

- a creative writing session that ran during literacy hour for the more able

- in conjunction with 5 other local schools (they call it a cluster) running events after school and at weekends in different subjects, some in conjunction with the High School

- 2 from each year group in juniors attend a local college one morning a week

- invited children to participate in subsidised weekends away eg for art and music.

 

Now they are at the High School, there is a lot less.

 

I hope that gives you some ideas that can be taken forward locally for you.

 

Edited to add:

They also get you to sign up for this http://ygt.dcsf.gov.uk/ but haven't found it much use tbh.

[Chickvic]

Ooh - I'd forgotten about the website, we never used it much either. Just remembered they did arrange for 2 children out of the year group to go and do a creative writing course at another school, DD went on this and then when they arranged a maths one, DD was chosen again, but her teachers didn't take them - apparently they had forgotten about it

[Willow]

they had:

- a maths club, invitation only for fun extension work

- a creative writing session that ran during literacy hour for the more able

- in conjunction with 5 other local schools (they call it a cluster) running events after school and at weekends in different subjects, some in conjunction with the High School

- 2 from each year group in juniors attend a local college one morning a week

- invited children to participate in subsidised weekends away eg for art and music.

 

Wow - what age was that for ? My YS is 11 and in year 5 now. I'm hoping he gets into the same grammar school as his brother (no grammars in our LEA but there is one in the neighbouring LEA) and trying to get the school to give him some work that stretches him next year.

[carrie]

I have 2 children on G&T register, school have identified them but that is as far as it has gone. We were given a glossy leaflet for the DCSF website however school never signed up for it so we couldn't register for it. In year 3 the teachers answer was for DS to learn his 17 and 18 times table until I asked what use was that. School has recently been OFSTEDed and have gone from outstanding to 3. I feel that because my 2 boys (yr5&6) were guarenteed level 5's then school didn't really have to bother much.

[Happy chickens!]

Hi Patricia - they did ran the after school/weekend events in all years, not every week more like one or two a year in each subject. The maths club and creative writing club were for years 3 to 6 and ran each week, the maths club at lunchtime and the writing during the literacy hour. My younger son really enjoyed them. My older son, who was not identified as 'g & t' didn't, but has just achieved a really high level 8 in maths in yr 9 (yes I know they abolished ks3 sats, but the school had already bought them!!) and they don't do any extra stuff at his school, just streamed teaching, so don't know how much it really matters!!

 

Support your child, let them learn to learn independently and try and find opportunities they can enjoy - if that is with G & T fine, but it's not the panacea, they need good, stimulating teaching every day. Is that too much to ask for?!

[Scramble]

When I was in primary school nearly 4 years ago, I got chosen for a G&T programme

Basically one afternoon every week they would take us out of our normal class and it was a group of maybe 10 of us. In our primary there were two classes for one year, with 30 in each class.

I wasn't on any particular subject like maths, science ,or english... I suppose it was logic puzzles, mind and thinking incorporating the skills forom each subject.

It also taught me how to present a theory very well, it's good for me now, better than when we had to stand up in fornt of the whole class and do a 5minute talk on whatever we liked.

It was very fun It was introduced only for Year Six though, and they only started it when I was in Year Six, big sis was most annoyed

[AnnieP]

I am the Gifted and Talented co-ordinator in my school... I like to think I fit the role perfectly!

 

The register is multi purpose really. Its most important function is to alert staff to those children who are more able in any subject areas, so that this can be taken into consideration when planning lessons to make sure there is suitable challenge for them.

 

ANother example is that I have a couple of children in my class who are whizzes at DT, and because of the register I often get calls from other teachers to see if they can "borrow" them to go and support younger classes when they are doing this kind of work. It makes the children involved feel very special!

 

We are lucky, (Wiltshire) run AG&T (Able, gifted and Talented) courses for their pupils, so again, there is a chance for them to attend courses, but parents DO have to pay unfortunately. My role is to make parents aware of them and promote them.

 

The other purpose is, of course, to alert the parent that they have a talented child, so that they too can follow opportunities that they might spot! We have put various strategies in place, for instance, one boy has wonderful abilities in cricket and his parents had no idea, and are not sporting in the slightest. I have been able to badger and cajole them into finally letting him join our local cricket club and he is hooked. I am hoping he will be the next Freddie Flintoff and remember me for starting him off.

 

A word to you wise folks. Just because your child is gifted and talented in a certain area, it doesn't mean necessarily that they like it and wish to have more and more of it...

I shudder to remember a poor child who was an excellent mathematician. Her parents were informed of her talent and the child was bombarded with extra work, tutors etc. I wish I had never told them, her life was made a misery and she HATED maths from that point onwards!

[Chucky Mama]

All 3 of mine are on the G & T register. As the school is small and has mixed aged classes it is great when they are with the children a year older as they get attached to the older children, but a disaster when they are with the children a year younger. My eldest who is now 15 effectively did year 6 three years running but had a totally fab teacher for three years who extended him personally. Had it not been for her the school would have done nothing.

 

The school as a whole does diddly squat. They send forms home about courses run in holiday times and weekends occasionally but always too late so that all of the places are taken. I also object to the children having to do these things in what should be their leisure time. They didn't enter my gifted mathematicians into a quiz as they felt they should give someone else a chance

 

My youngest they say they 'can cope with' mathematically and they give him downloaded printed sheets to do.

 

What I would say having gone through it now 3 times is don't get too stressed. They are still very young and they have masses to learn socially. I received some very good advise early on which was not to plough down the academic route with bright children but to broaden their knowledge with things like music, sport, language, maths in a non curricular way (adding up the shopping in their heads - my 11 year old gets a packet of choc buttons if he is within 2p!), general knowledge, eco issue etc. Also they don't stop being clever because their primary school doesn't extend them. When they get to secondary school everything is usually in place for these children and they really fly

[Guest]

HI

 

A few years ago my son came home as he knew he was doing some tests...and suddenly told me he had a high maths IQ(fav subject..not mine) and it was at the time being run by Warwick uni or they had something to do with it, there were lots of courses at different venues around the country and as he was a tad borderline in age (too young) we never took any up. He did other tests too, and a few children in his year were identified, all for different things..not just science some for English etc

 

Annie P may correct me(as you can tell I dont fall into the G& T category) and then Warwicks time coordinating came to an end,....they also I think widened the top 5% to ???10% of population ..

 

We now get a useless letter/mag, it is mostly drama and english skills or thats what it seems to me...my son doesnt seem to get any extra help and I really dont know why he was tested. Initially the web pages for NAGTY forums were full of pushy parents. Also when warwick stopped being involved some of the courses offered(mostly by industry) were fab expensive..I remember thinking only if you were loaded would you be able to take any of these..

 

The attitude I have is as long as he is happy at school and enjoying thats the main thing..so I dont really know why the glossy mag is produced...& take it with a pinch ..feel proud and encourage but dont take it tooo seriously..chucky mama you beat me to it ...agree with your sentiments exactly!

 

indie

[Sam Palmer]

Our school has a register to identify G&T's, but seems to do little beyond that. The odd little group are taken out to take part in some event, but not much else. Some children, I can think of, have been given extra help to encourage and extend them, but I think lack of manpower is often an issue.

My eldest son is in Yr10 and on the G&T register. His secondary school are on the ball and often run half day or day courses on things such as thinking and planning skills for them. They also encourage them to think ahead and aim high. He's recently been to a local university to find out what uni life is all about and is going to an open day at Cambridge next week.

So far, it's all been quite general and more about encouraging their abilities, rather than pushing them, so he's enjoyed it, especially as he's matured himself.

[Willow]

Sounds like many do nothing but there are some good ideas there I can mention.

 

My YS school does nothing but they do run a meeting for parents annually where they talk about the scheme and are very smug about how well they are doing (they told ofsted as well that they did lots for G&T)

 

they need good, stimulating teaching every day. Is that too much to ask for?!

 

Appears to be after ensuring he is happy at school (which he isn't) this is what I want next and I don't care what it's called

 

We do various fun activities at home much along the lines Chunky mama described but it seems such a waste for him to spend hrs at school to be bored and unhappy

 

Although if the school would tell me that they had to do the register but have not got enough resources to do anything with it I'd at least feel they were honest ! Smugly asserting that they do lots and that they listen to parents when they don't annoys me

[sadietoo]

Both my son and daughter were picked up as G & T at junior and high school....Basically, and you are probably going to disagree with me...we didn't expect too much from it. Most state schools (well certainly ours anyway) don't really taper the education they offer to the top few percent of the class. We always felt it was our job to encourage and keep them focussed and on task, ( and with a G & T child this is not difficult). But even then, so as not to make too big a deal of it we limited this to finding them decent novels to read to suit their abilities and taking an interest in their homework and encouraging them to go the extra mile with it. Both are musical too and we always encouraged this too with extra curricular lessons and playing in an ensemble ( i can't remember now the number of times I have heard the Pink Panther theme tune!) Their reward is that they will do well in GCSE...and eventually A levels and gain decent university places studying something that interests them. (DD has proved this by successful first year at her first choice uni...) I think what I am trying to say is that no matter how bright they are eventually they all have to submit to a standard. If they are G & T then great...they will do very well, in fact, better than most...rejoice and be thankful....but don't expect school to push them too hard...they are concerned with averages not individuals...if you have a G & T child you have been giving them extra things to do since they were toddlers....just keep going with the input and they will do the rest!

[Willow]

Actually I agree with you

 

I didn't expect too much from it. I'd really like him not to be bullied for being bright and it would be nice if he wasn't too bored in school.

 

BUT I think it is dishonest for them to proclaim that they do lots for the G&T to parents, OFSTED and the LEA when they do nothing

 

They can't seem to make up their mind. They say they listen to parents but I know they don't.

 

When I raised a concern they asked me to put my concerns in writing then sat on them for several weeks. When I was finally invited in to discuss they gave one date/time only and just said 'Oh what a shame' when I said I had a meeting so so I had to rearrange my meeting even though I could have more easily made just about anyother time that week.

 

Before the meeting I want to get some idea what (if anything) other schools manage to do - the school seem to want to focus the meeting on the G&T scheme .

[Guest]

Actually I agree with you

 

I didn't expect too much from it. I'd really like him not to be bullied for being bright and it would be nice if he wasn't too bored in school.

 

BUT I think it is dishonest for them to proclaim that they do lots for the G&T to parents, OFSTED and the LEA when they do nothing

 

They can't seem to make up their mind. They say they listen to parents but I know they don't.

 

When I raised a concern they asked me to put my concerns in writing then sat on them for several weeks. When I was finally invited in to discuss they gave one date/time only and just said 'Oh what a shame' when I said I had a meeting so so I had to rearrange my meeting even though I could have more easily made just about anyother time that week.

 

Before the meeting I want to get some idea what (if anything) other schools manage to do - the school seem to want to focus the meeting on the G&T scheme .

 

 

I think my children go to the same school as yours, as I did the same to no avail...I think its all a waste of money..seems as if the teachers probably dont support it. At the end of the day parents do need to support etc nurture in a good way. Better to be an allrounder..and a good rounded person

 

Am sure they will do well with our support

[Chucky Mama]

they are concerned with averages not individuals...if you have a G & T child you have been giving them extra things to do since they were toddlers....just keep going with the input and they will do the rest!

 

I agree with sadietoo. Many schools cater for the average and pour resources into the 'Special Needs' of those that struggle. If you have a G & T child, you are considered 'lucky'. I have spent the last 11 years with children in primary school supporting 'Special Needs' children in terms of the fact that virtually all of the fundraising and new initiatives are aimed at them. My 3 G & T have in the main been left to their own devices with the exeption of 1 who excelled because of an individual brilliant teacher.

 

If you child has other bright children in the class they will feed off each other, if they are alone however they will get bored. It is difficult as we are seen a 'pushy parents' by many teachers and it can be an uphill battle. Ask to speak to the Governor and teacher that is in charge of the G & T part of the curriculum and discuss your feelings with them.

 

However, be assured that your children will still be G & T regardless of what their primary schools do with them. Many truely G & T children need to be helped to learn to interact appropriately with their peers and manage their high intellegence within a group. This is a valuable lesson for them, particularly learning how to cope with being called 'boffins' etc. They need to learn that being bright is to be celebrated and that it can be cool. This is why encouraging these children to pursue stimulating non school curricular activities is great. My eldest G & T is the area triple jump champ, a 2nd dan Tae Kwon do black belt, play lead trumpet in a jazz band, is a youth coach etc etc. (sorry - proud mum attack )He was destined to be a geek but by steering away from the curriculum he is now rounded and certainly cool

 

It is a mistake teaching them at home as they then have nothing to learn at school. There a masses of things that you can do with a G & T child that can support them, interest and stimulate them without forging forward into their school curriculum. Or you can go into subjects that they are doing at school into more depth. Letting them product fantastic homework to their own level can also make the school wake up a bit when they see what these children are capable of. My children used to go to school with Power Point presentations and homework made to look like a newspaper or a wanted poster etc. That was great fun for them.

[littleleicesterfox]

I know I posted about this before but I'm going into my YS school soon to talk about the Gifted and Talented scheme and what they could do to stretch the mor academically able (they do nothing today) and it would be really useful to get some idea what other primary schools do

 

In our primary school they had access to more books, some extra activities and also N. Wilts run a AGAT scheme with residential trips to Braeside in Devizes.

 

This is the site, I hope it helps

 

http://www.braesideeducation.co.uk/education/able-gifted-and-talented.htm

[Chucky Mama]

Our school uses Braeside but courses are over subscribed and are usually in holiday time or at weekends. I object to this extension being done outside the classroom.

[Willow]

I can't help feeling there is more that could be done relatively cheaply within schools rather than waste money on an iniative.

 

As far as I can tell the money allocated by the school for this scheme was spent sending two teachers to the US to look at a school for G&T. A couple of years later one of them is still telling the kids about the great things she saw when she was in the US - she was especially taken with Yellowstone park. Oh and they took a look at the school and decided that as it was only for Gifted children its approach wasn't relevant to them with mixed ability intake I could have told them that in 30sec without leaving the playground.

 

I'm not really looking for external activities as I think we do well at home with their current activies and the books and discussions we do. And I believe kids need downtime too where they just chill. I want to persuade the school to let the keen readers have a different book to the others for guided reading (each group takes it in turns so they aren't all reading the same book at the same time anyway) and to let them change their guided reading book more frequently because at the moment they go at the pace of the slowest reader in the class.

[Chucky Mama]

I have always sent books in for my children that are appropriate for their needs/ability. They read their guided reading books and then go on to their own book.