Chicken Memorials

[miffy]

I have spoken to my nearest poultry breeder and he debeaks his birds. I realise from searching this forum that this is a contentious issue, and I have no wish to stir up a hornets nest. I have google it and only produced opiions which seem biased one way or another. I would however like to find some impartial advice/research on this practice. does anyone know of any please?

[Redwing]

Its usually something that is done on a large scale - major hybrid breeders may well do this

 

I dont think its done on a small scale and am not sure if a vet would do it

 

I believe there is an action in place to ban it eventually

 

A forum that has a larger number of bigger scale breeders would probably be able to give more information, Practical Poultry is one that springs to mind

[miffy]

Thanks I should have thought of that

[crankycookie]

I can only give you my experience. My first 2 GNRs I got via Omlet, which sources them from a major hatchery here in the US, and it's apparently standard practice to debeak them in large operations like that (it apparently reduced feather plucking and cannibalism.) I was surprised to see them that way as I wasn't expecting it, and I still feel rather awful about it. It think they were debeaked more or less just as they were shipped to me. They were a bit awkward about eating at first and would mis-aim trying to pick up small bits from the floor.

 

I got my newest girls from an organic farm, and they still have intact beaks. Aesthetically I prefer this, and it makes eating a lot easier for them. While I'm glad my older chook can't hurt the newbies as much with a blunted beak, I still feel badly for her... she'll never be able to just tear into a head of cabbage, for example.

 

I was told that sometimes the beaks grow back, and while it has a little, it's been nearly a year and I don't think she'll ever have a lovely sharp pointy beak again. If it were up to me, I'd rather avoid the large hatcheries and get fully intact birds, even though they are so much more convenient than locating and driving out to local breeders.

[Plum]

I can't comment really not having experience of them but just feel terribly sad when I see a debeaked bird. I do understand nerve endings are exposed afterwards.

[Egluntyne]

They are debeaked in large hatcheries as day old chicks and then often sold on to the rearers. If you buy from a small outlet who hatch and rear their own, they probably won't be debeaked.

 

I did once have a debeaked hen. She managed OK, but it didn't look right.

[Nicola O]

I had an e-mail from Compassion in World Farming yesterday - there is a proposed ban on de-beaking set to come into force in 2011, but apparently this upcoming ban is under threat !!!

 

They sent me one of those e-mail letters that you personalise and send to your local MP asking them to sign the ban so de-beaking will not continue.

 

I think this - http://action.ciwf.org.uk/ea-campaign/clientcampaign.do?ea.client.id=119&ea.campaign.id=5361 - should take you to the right page.

 

Nicola

[scubababe]

There is a small article on page 5 of the poultry guide in this months Small Holding magazine which states the 'Animal welfare pressure group Compassion in World Farming (CIWF) has urged DEFRA to uphold the ban on beak trimming of laying hens. DEFRA decided to ban beak trimming in 2002, with the legislation due to come into force in January 2011, but Farm Animal Welfatre Council has recommended the ban be postponed until an unnamed date. CIWF argue that the eight years the industry was given to implement the ban was sufficient. Peter Stevenson, cheif policy advisor at CIWF, said it was "totally unacceptable" for them to say they need more time.

[Lavenders_Blue]

My ex-batts have all been de-beaked (as are all commercial laying hens). They manage just fine, but it's not really ideal. They seem to be funny about eating things like cabbage leaves and corn on the cob, i.e. they won't dig into a whole cabbage or corn on the cob but enjoy eating the kernels or cabbage shredded into wormy shapes. I have wondered if this is because they can't manage it with their beaks or they are just fussy madams?! My personal opinion is that if mother nature gave them a pointy beak, then that's what they're supposed to have!

[miffy]

Thanks for sharing your experience crankiecookie, very helpful. and you Lavender-blue

I haven't been able to access Practical Poultry totally as they wont accept my hotmail account, I will have to find the one I had with Tiscali and see if that still works.

I didnt know that it exposed nerve endings!!! I do have mixed feelings having had MAJOR problems with pecking & bullying.

[Jools]

Some smaller scale breeders do it too because it prevents feather pecking when they're confined. My first two Marans banties had been de-beaked and it made it look as though they were permanently pouting. They managed okay but to be perfectly honest, I didn't like seeing it and I wouldn't buy a de-beaked bird again. If we reduce the demand, then maybe the supply will disappear too.

[scubababe]

I must admit, and my defence is i'm a newbie, until I read this on the forum I didn't know that this practice existed. I'm afraid that I'm in the old school group, in that our ladies were born that beautiful and the beak is designed that way for a lot of reasons and very good reasons they are. My ladies are all 'intact' and unless it was life threatening will remain so.

[laurmurf]

three of our adopted hens must have had their beaks trimmed back hard when they were younger: the tips haven't grown back pointy but straight across and split. It does make them eat differently.

 

when I got 3 hens last year, as the small scale breeder was loading up the boxes with my new and paid for pure breed chooks, he flashed a scissory things and 'trimmed' all their beaks. I was a bit shocked, as i hadn't requested or expected this. In these cases the beaks were growing/grew back fine.

 

when we are talking about debeaking, particularly in the light of the CWF campaign, I think we mean more than 'trimming', don't we?

[crankycookie]

when we are talking about debeaking, particularly in the light of the CWF campaign, I think we mean more than 'trimming', don't we?

 

As I understand it, they're two different terms for the same thing. I guess "debeaking" is kind of a misleading term, as they still have beaks, of course, but the first 1/4-1/2 is removed. Some say that it can cause long term pain, and of course, it's just kind of sad for me to look at. This is a pic of my girls from Omlet the first day I received them:

 

 

I read that they are actually beak trimmed twice, once as chicks and again around POL, as when you do it young they actually do grow back. In some cases I hear the beaks grow back altogether, but that's not my personal experience.

 

Looking at my new girls, they look wicked sharp! But I've not had any problems with aggression on their part, and I love how "proper chickeny" they look and am impressed by their ability to get even the smallest blade of grass with accuracy, and their ability to get through corn on the cob, which my poor Peaches will never be able to do.

 

In cases with aggression, I was recommended to use bumper bits, which apparently reduce the amount of damage and feather pulling a hen can do during an introduction period. It seems like this is a good, non-permanent solution?

[Angels4]

I'm happy to report that not all the girls recieved through Omlet in the States have had thier beaks trimmed or removed. My original "Steel Magnolia" girls all arrived with beaks intact. I would have been VERY if they had been altered.

 

Maybe Omlet uses various hatcheries depending on the part of the US you live in.