Roobaloo Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 (edited) Further on from my last post about an injured chick...we're now convinced that whatever injury she had (if any) is no longer relevant as she can move her limbs normally, will push against you and will place both feet correctly when her weight is supported. She seems well, it just seems she's not strong enough to lift herself up. Someone has suggested rickets...could this be the case? Her sister is a lot bigger than her, her limbs are twice as thick...her sister is also very well feathered while she still has a lot of developing feathers emerging. Would it be worth increasing her Vitamin D (either by supplement or in the form of cooked egg yolk..?) intake to see if this helps? We've decided that if she hasn't made any further progress in the next week to 10 days, then she will be euthanised as she's not making progress on her own and she's refusing to stay in a body support (we've made 6 different types but she sits initially then just fights her way out - more proof her legs work...) ....so at this point, could it hurt to try? Advice/Opinions much appreciated.... Edited August 14, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Its sounding more like Mareks as time goes on.. Not sure about rickets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 8, 2010 Author Share Posted August 8, 2010 (edited) I thought that caused paralysis? She can use her limbs, just can't support herself... If it's Marek's...Wouldn't it have got worse or something else developed? And I'm guessing the others would either be infected or at risk (being that they're in the same room, half a meter away...and I've handled them one after the other) ...and so what do I do now? What about my big girls? I wash my hands before and after handling the chicks but don't get changed... Edited August 8, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Are you feeding any greens? And sorry for the next question, but I haven't been following this, what heat source are you using - heat lamp or electric hen? I read some advice a few years ago from an experienced keeper who found that those she reared under a heat lamp didn't develop leg problems if she introduced some cut grass to their diet at about 5 days, whereas if she didn't, some did. It's also worth considering whether there's a heriditary problem too. A couple of years ago I hatched five Cuckoo Marans chicks and two (both girls!) developed leg problems. They were under a broody and on grass, so I knew it wasn't the problem I mentioned above. The vet and I ruled out just about everything and the only other option was to have them PM'd as it wouldn't have been fair to keep them alive. However, the PM revealed absolutely nothing, which in itself was good and supported the hereditary theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 8, 2010 Author Share Posted August 8, 2010 Originally she was under an electric hen until she turned lame (aged 12 days) and needed separating...now she has a heat lamp. She's not had any greens as she only being fed chick crumb until a couple of days ago when I introduced some mealworms in an attempt to motivate her to stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftyhunnypie Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Hi - it is not always Mareks. I have a little cockerel the same as your little chook He can use his legs too, but like yours - cant support himself. His time with us is soon to come to a sad end. He is able to eat, drink - but his mobility means that he won't ever have a good quality of life. We wondered if it was Mareks & thought he may die soon, but have been reassured ( after his check up) it isn't & like someone elses chook it is genetic / hereditary. He has lived on happily - but we have made a decision about his future. I think you will have to do the same. Emma.x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 8, 2010 Author Share Posted August 8, 2010 Will a vet be able to tell me whether it definitely is or isn't Mareks? I'm really worried about the two other chicks...and my two big girls... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 The only certain diagnosis of Mareks is by PM, but most people don't bother as the symptoms are so well known. Are your two big girls hybrids? If so, you can be pretty sure they've been vaccinated against Mareks so they should be okay. Not every bird who comes into contact with the virus will come down with it, even those not vaccinated. IF it is Mareks, the other two may well be fine. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 I'm getting more confused as to what to do. The problem is that I'm only keeping two of the three chicks. One is due to go back to the breeder...and be rehomed from there. If they've come in contact with mareks but been unaffected, are they still carriers or clear of it? My big girls are hybrids and I've checked with their breeder and they were vaccinated...is this a guarantee against it or just a reduced risk? Basically, would it be safe to eventually introduce a mareks carrier? Is there any risk to other local poultry? I'm at a complete loss at what to do now. This whole thing has been a nightmare. All I wanted was to raise a couple of hens to increase my hens from two to four....but went from 12 incubating eggs down to one...buy a couple of chicks just in case just one hatches...but nothing hatches and now the chicks may have to all be culled for what may or may not be mareks but I have no way of checking...and the only symptom is that one chick is unable to lift herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I have to say I think it's unlikely to be Mareks, the symptoms presented themselves too early. Last year I had a young cockerel, around 12 weeks old, who suddenly started having leg trouble. He was seen by my specialist poultry vet and he said because of his age Mareks was unlikely. Mareks doesn't normally appear until around 6 months. My boys symptoms were different to yours though, in the space of a week he went from limping a bit to being unable to walk at all so I culled him. He was the only bird affected and I didn't pay for a PM but I'm certain it wasn't Mareks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I tend to agree with Griffin. I think you're doing precisely the right thing if that's any consolation. My gut feel is that you'll end up having to cull the poorly chick for her own good and that the remaining two will be absolutely fine. It's a horrible introduction to hatching that you've had and it's purely down to bad luck. Sadly it happens that way sometimes, whereas others are plain sailing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 If you fancy a drive, I'm happy to pass on the details of my fab poultry vet. He's one of the most well respected avian vets in Europe and will happily see your chick ASAP. He's in Swindon. Consultation fee is about £30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 Thanks! Griffin - Could you PM me their number? The drive might be a bit far for her but they might know of a specialist more locally or just have some advice... Worth a shot...! I don't mind having to cull a chick that is definitely beyond help but the idea of culling them for something unconfirmed just breaks my heart. I'll stick to my deadline...and continue to add some egg into her diet...and see how she goes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Almost certainly not Marek's, but I've had a look at the photos in your first thread; it's hard to tell without examining the chick, but it could have Perosis in that one leg. Perosis is when the ligament down the back of the leg comes out of the groove along the back of the knee joint and results in them being unable to get off their hocks. I have reservations about this theory with your chick though as it usually applies to both legs. It's caused by either malnutrition in the mother, or premature hatching. It can be rectified by binding and splinting. I had a chick with it, and other problems too; when it wasn't thriving, I decided to euthanase it. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 10, 2010 Author Share Posted August 10, 2010 Thanks Claret - what should I look for to help confirm it? When she went lame, it was suggested it might be slipped tendon (is that the same??) and I followed the advice on here but there was no reaction/result...she willingly stretches the legs back when encouraged. I'll take some photos and perhaps a video later...in case that shines some light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 If you google, you'll probably find a few images. It's just an inability to straighten the legs and weight-bear. They rest on the backs of their knees. It is possible to manipulate the tendon back in and splint it, but the general prognosis isn't good. I talked about it with my vet when I took another animal in, and he says that splinting may or may not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 11, 2010 Author Share Posted August 11, 2010 She's really bubbly today, she sounds like she's singing each time we enter the room! she has started to 'walk' differently...rather then fling herself forward and let her wings stop her, or shuffling with her hocks on the ground, I was raising her off up to encourage her to stand and when she huffed off she was off the ground still (but not stood up) and walked - the only description I can offer is like us walking whilst crouched down - her hocks were visibly off the ground and moving. I hope this is progress as her deadline (no pun intended ) is rapidly approaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 If she's managing to use her legs more that is good news. I don't know if you read about my little Pingu on here a few months ago. He was born with bent toes and he couldn't stand properly. I spent weeks looking after his feet and legs, they were never perfect but he was happy enough and got around in his own little way. He eventually grew big enough to move outside and he spent a happy few weeks free ranging. I'd always said that as soon as he told me his feet hurt I'd despatch him and that's what I did. I don't regret the time invested in helping Pingu, he had a happy life, albeit a short one, and being a boy his was never going to be a long life anyway. Photos of Pingus feet are in his thread http://club.omlet.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=59460&hilit=pingu Like Pingu did, your girl will tell you when she's had enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 11, 2010 Author Share Posted August 11, 2010 Awwwww!!! Bless lil Pingu! Such a sad, but equally happy, little life! I think the worst thing is that I would hate to give up on her too soon. If she gives up on me and clearly doesn't want to try any more, then I'll end her suffering. Currently, she's bright, interested in her surroundings and most of all...trying!!! I went up to check on her at lunch today and she made a real attempt to stand up!!! She lifted her hocks off the ground at was probably about 50% of full standing height...only for about a second before she started to sink again but hopefully she'll be feeling stronger and more motivated now she's started doing it for herself! I'm still staying realistic in my head though, her development is so far behind the others now so she's bound to have a few struggles ahead of her...but while she is happy and willing, I'll give her everything I can! Breakfast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 11, 2010 Author Share Posted August 11, 2010 A little video of her - I'm trying to convince her to walk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I may be wrong, but that looks like perosis to me. See if your vet can get the tendon back in and bind the legs for you. I've found some info for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 11, 2010 Author Share Posted August 11, 2010 Will do!! I'm planning to take her back on Friday, might see if they can see her tomorrow morning instead... She can straighten the leg, while she was in the sling, she would stretch...now she's 'sat', she needs to be encouraged and is little shakily but it will go straight...also, there doesn't seem to be any swelling...would that still be perosis? I did try to do a google search but the images found weren't clear and varied a lot (several looked more like the leg was dislocated!!) and a lot were quite grim (inc. surgery on a human toe... ) In the meantime, I'll try to get her back in the sling/chair...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I'm puzzled by the fact that she can partially straighten it - that doesn't happen when they have perosis - they can't straighten the legs at all of their own accord. I'd get an appointment with the vet sooner rather than later, only because these things are harder to sort out if they are left for longer. Also, the more you nurse it, the more attached you will be; my daughter nursed our chick with perosis for 2 days and there were floods of tears when I had to despatch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobaloo Posted August 11, 2010 Author Share Posted August 11, 2010 This is the problem - if she was showing 100% of anything, I could react accordingly...even if it was to despatch her. Every time we think we know what it is, she proves us wrong...so I don't want to kill her if she's simply recovering from a fracture the vet missed...and is a bit behind and weak because of it. There will be tears (there already has been) I am already very attached but I'm also realistic...I had to have a chinchilla pts 18 months ago...she had been born with defects and had reached a stage in her life where they were compromising her health. It's heart breaking but necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarlettohara Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 She is certainly bright and interested, I can see why you want to keep trying. Good Luck with the vet and let us know how you get on Sara x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
