How can I find my old pictures?

[miller30]

Well i have phoned the council this morning as my case is due to be closed or investigated further on saturday 16 and the lady has told me "Ooops, word censored!"ody has returned any of the noise diarys so they have until tommorow or the case will be closed so i am happy for now and will be collecting teddy 2 new wives on sunday leanne.

[Roobaloo]

We've got a young cock who we'd love to keep...but we live in a mid-terrace house. Our immediate neighbours seem unbothered by noise (hens make quite a noise at times...but one side is never at home and the other have two young kids who scream and shout all day...plus the other side, there are two large dog who bark all morning and night!) ...but I'm guessing this involves the rest of the street.

 

Would we have a stronger case against any noise complaints as there are already two, perhaps three, cockerels in the area. One is in the next street and crows throughout the day...another is two streets away and can easily be heard on still mornings.

 

The WIR is an old shed and more than 50% of the sides and the roof are enclosed so the sound doesn't travel too far...

[miller30]

Hi roobaloo all you can do is keep him for now and see how it goes i cant see how anyone would be bothered if you already have cockerals in your area but i suppose it depends on the bird i know some are louder than others whats the worst that will happen you will be told to rehome him goodluck leanne.

[sjp]

roobaloo i've got 2 about 16-17 weeks old ones crowing but I'm keeping one till Christmas and the other untill I get the 'letter' from the EHO

the crower ( a TNN) starts just after I go out to let them out in a morning till I let him out the he does a couple more then stops and has far as I know thats it till the next morning

[madchickenlady]

I would love to keep a cockerel, but don't want to push my luck. I live on a housing estate, and have neighbours on three sides. I dole out eggs during the gobbier summer months , and all of my neighbours have been fine about the hens (one even chicken sits for us if we travel ). However, I think a cockerel would make me unpopular

[Carlisle chick]

Hi there,

 

I thought I'd be devils advocate with this post. Although I personally would not have a problem with a cockerel living near me, I have been affected by nuisance noise (dog barking).

 

These things start off as a minor irritant and as time goes by they become more and more annoying. When the noise is happening regularly and it's a noise that you don't want to hear or it's keeping you awake, It get's to the point where it drives you to distraction.

 

I think it's unfair that the neighbour did not come to speak to you first, that would've been the courteous thing to do. On the other hand we now live in a society where we are afraid of the repucutions from approaching some one about something that is upsetting us or we are unhappy about. So, I kind of understand why your neighbours complained through Environmental health.

 

I live in a residential area and although I would love to keep a cockerel and masses of hens. I have to try to respect the people that live around me as best as I can. I only have three beautiful hens

 

Maybe if I win the lottery I can live the dream and have acres of land with lots of hens and some handsome Cockerels too!

[miller30]

Well teddy hasnt made one crow today and only crows 3 times aday anyway if he crowed all day long i would break his neck because it would get on my nerves but i just think people can be very selfish in complaining about the noise other people make when they make enough noise themselves leanne.

[Chicken deficient]

When we got our first chickens - also Pekins, we got a cockerel too. They were 6 weeks old and so we asked all the neighbours if they minded them being in the garden until they were big enough to move out the back onto the veg patch.

They all said no, no problem...

...but then he started crowing and the man next door started getting rather cross with me about it. I asked him if he was bothered by the two large fowl cockerels kept by his neighbour on the other side - he said he didn't even know he kept chickens!!!

I think some people just like to complain when they see the opportunity, but having said that, Pekin cockerels are rather noisy and persistent - at least ours is!

[Ailie]

Another devil's advocate here.

 

OP, your neighbours have the right to complain about the noise, just as you have the right to complain about their barking dog/loud music etc. Just because the sound of a cockerel crowing doesn't bother you, or that nice lady over the road, it doesn't mean that the complainant doesn't have a valid reason for contacting environmental health.

 

The environmental health laws are there to protect people from disruption in their homes as they go about their daily lives. I wouldn't dream of ever having a cockerel where we live because of the residential nature of the area and because I'd never want to find myself in a position where I was disturbing anyone.

 

If you're a light sleeper, perhaps a shift worker, a cockerel is likely to drive you berserk. Were I in your angry neighbour's position would I come to your door and speak to you? Maybe, but probably not... after all, I'd be turning up at your door to say "get rid of the cockerel", which would make me the Bad Guy and your response probably wouldn't be one of happy compliance, would it?

 

I think you have to accept that unless you're in the middle of nowhere, having a noisy animal in the garden is likely to annoy some people and that's not their fault.

 

Edit: Redwing, I am sorry that I used the P word. Wasn't really thinking!

Edited October 15, 2010 by Guest

[the bradley bunch]

the laws mean't to be changing soon hopefully, so we can all have a cock

 

where'd you find the info about the law change emma? - you've gotten me all excited now as i'd love a cockeral! whilst i know my immediate neighbours wouldn't complain as we live in a sub-urban area with decent sized gardens, there's a mansion type house the other side of the small woods next to my house and the old crow (crow - ) that lives there has got into legal disputes with every person on our road about something or the other so i don't want to do anything to alert her to the fact that we keep poultry because i know she'd complain immediately even though she can't see or hear my girls at all from her house or garden

[Redwing]

I've not heard anything about the law changing

 

I have heard of a movement that is trying to get the law changed though

 

At the end of the day its impossible to predict the noise from a cockerel, they are living creatures and dont have a factory setting to crow X times a day and very few of us are in all day to be able to be sure how much noise they make. One thing will set them off every now and again and they can crow non stop for minutes, other times they are as quiet as a mouse

 

Quite often the most noise in a neighbourhood comes from cars or dogs barking and that is often louder and more sustained however the noise of a cockerel is alien to most people and so seems more annoying sadly

 

Much as I'd love to be able to say that we should all have cockerels sadly as it stands we dont have a 'right' to have one and expect our neighbours to put up with it

 

I wouldnt be without my boys so I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone in this position but sometimes we cant have just what we want and need to consider those around us

[chicken bark]

It is a shame to say but if we all lived in urban areas with close neighbours then having a cockerel would make us just as bad as those who play loud music, have barking dogs, random fireworks etc.

 

If you live in a semi-rural or rural area then that may be a different matter. After all certain noises are more acceptable in different locations.

 

Just as an example - my eldest son was a light sleeper and a difficult teether. He was disturbed during his daytime sleeps by neighbours making acceptable noise such as mowing the lawn or playing with the dog in the garden. If they had then gone on to introduce cockerels into the equation I would have been at my wits end and I may have regarded the noise as unacceptable.

 

This doesn't make it fair but just, as others have done, gives another perspective on the issue.

 

If you are lucky enough to have amenable neighbours then you are fine.

[C&T]

sometimes we cant have just what we want and need to consider those around us

 

I'm reminded of the saying "one man's rubbish is another mans treasure". While I would not call anyones cockerell "rubbish" (I promise - I like them!), just because one person may enjoy the sound of crowing, it doesn't mean that everyone does - and that noise can't half travel, bouncing and reflecting off surrounding buildings! If you work shifts, have a small baby, light sleeper etc, it would really affect your quality of life to have crowing in the garden next door.

 

I think (and this is my opinion) it is a lot to expect neighbours to put up with. It also applies to all sorts of noises - dogs continous barking etc.

[Tiggy]

one of my neighbours was convinced I had a cockeral (I dont) but the noise can travel a long way, there is a small holding a little way off & if the wind is in the right direction you can hear them. My girls dont make anywhere near as much noise as the local dogs & kids. I hope you get this sorted out

[migsy]

I certainly wouldn't risk getting a cockeral myself as I live in an urban area too. It seems, however, that cockerals in urban areas are becoming more common. I heard a very loud one recently in St Albans. Also, the priest at the local church near me keeps them and I can hear them when I take my kids to school. I often wonder if he has had any complaints but he has kept them for a while.

[miller30]

I know everyone has the right to complain about things but why phone the council and then not bother filling out any of the noise diarys he cant be ruining their lifes that much the case will be closed tommorow .Unless its because they dont want me to have to go to court in the end as they will have to go as a witness and i will find out who it is my councillor even laughed and said it wont go as far as court and the reason i kept him was because my neighbours told me to as they love him and i have no houses to the back of me its wasteland and a school with kids screaming all day oh well i will see what happens leanne.

[Roobaloo]

I appreciate that we are entitled to complain about excess noise...but are there any guidelines or sound levels for what is excess? Also, what is covered by that?

Basically, we have a right not to have to put up with noise but equally, do we have rights to make noise? Loud music is often tolerated until late evening...just as fireworks can only be let off at certain times due to noise...we are allowed to make noise but we have limits - does this not apply to cockerels?

 

Surely if a cockerel wasn't crowing between "unsociable" hours...(so from 10pm until 7am..?) would it be deemed acceptable? Or if the sound could be reduced?

 

How much of a "report" is based on sound levels or because people don't like a particular sound?

[Ailie]

I appreciate that we are entitled to complain about excess noise...but are there any guidelines or sound levels for what is excess? Also, what is covered by that?

 

This offers some guidance: http://www.environmental-protection.org.uk/noise/environmental-noise/noise-pollution/

[Roobaloo]

I appreciate that we are entitled to complain about excess noise...but are there any guidelines or sound levels for what is excess? Also, what is covered by that?

 

This offers some guidance: http://www.environmental-protection.org.uk/noise/environmental-noise/noise-pollution/

 

Thanks!

 

It only mentions "loud animals" in reference to "bye-laws", it gives no details about this...and I'm struggling to find any solid information about it!!

[Ailie]

My understanding is that it could be anything. For example, are you making, or facilitating the making of a noise that your neighbours could hear in their house with the window open in Summer? Is it more than a one-off? If so, and if it's a noise that someone has a problem with, it can become an issue for environmental health.

[Roobaloo]

My understanding is that it could be anything. For example, are you making, or facilitating the making of a noise that your neighbours could hear in their house with the window open in Summer? Is it more than a one-off? If so, and if it's a noise that someone has a problem with, it can become an issue for environmental health.

 

But don't you have any rights to make such noises? Say, for example...screaming kids in a paddling pool, all day and every day during the summer holidays - surely that's allowed?

 

It just seems to be a very vague line - that if I can hear someones radio and don't like the music, I could complain?! Or my neighbours half-deaf mother's tv when she watches it in bed every evening? Or the neighbours kid who practices playing piano before and after school...?

 

Is it really as simple as "I don't like it, get rid of it!"?

 

(again, for the record, I'm not wanting to report these noises...they're just examples of loud, annoying noises I hear daily to compare to a cockerel who may potentially crow during the daylight hours)

[C&T]

Not sure it is something set in stone. It all depends on the circumstances of each individual case. For example, a new puppy crying/whining all night for a few nights while it settles in is one thing. A dog barking all night every night for weeks on end is quite another.

 

I try and use the "do as you would be done by" philosophy. If a neighbours dog barking all day irritates me enormously, why inflict a rooster (that is likely to do the same (well crow, not bark!!)) on my neighbours and irritate them in return. Why antagonise the people I share my surroundings with?

 

If I didn't live in the middle of a housing estate (where by definition, people need to be very aware of their impact on their neighbours, or it becomes a miserable place to live!) but instead lived in my dream house in the country, with no neighbours near by, or in a farming community, then I would love a cockerell or two - and maybe add my own barking dog just for the hell of it .

[Ailie]

But don't you have any rights to make such noises? Say, for example...screaming kids in a paddling pool, all day and every day during the summer holidays - surely that's allowed?

 

*shrug* It depends who your neighbours are. Legally, we all have more right to peace than to noise making.

 

The way it works is that as a complainant, environmental health ask you to keep a 'noise diary' of the disturbances on a paper form. There is no deadline for this to be returned to them.

 

If the noise disturbances are repetitive and are causing you (as the complainant) a real problem, someone from environmental health will come round to measure the sound levels in your home and check that they are within acceptable limits, if of course you choose to go down that route.

 

I think the idea is that you're supposed to be mindful of others and their right to a quiet life. Some people aren't (we had major problems with a neighbour playing music) so the law is there to protect those who are simply going about their lives in peace. Most people don't feel the need to take legal action against noise, but the law is there to protect them if that's what it takes in order to reach a resolution.

 

When it comes to kids, as long as they're not deliberately antagonising people, it's probably not going to be much of an issue, but if it's something like loud music in the garden, or parties until the wee small hours, or power tools in a workshop, or revving engines in your mechanics garage, it's more likely to be avoidable and the originator of the noise has a duty to protect others from having to listen to it. If they don't, it can be deemed to be anti-social behaviour... It all depends on the strength of legal case that's made.

 

Most of it is common sense. If you know that your neighbour works through the night and sleeps through the day, you will probably know that your drum practice or your kids screaming is going to drive them mad. It seems only right to try and keep it down, after all, that's what you would want if the tables were turned, right?

 

If you live in an urban area and you have a cockerel, it's not a major stretch to imagine that not everyone is going to enjoy the noise that they make permeating the walls of their home.

[Roobaloo]

Thanks Ailie - so just because they dislike the noise, it doesn't necessarily mean the noise must stop, it just means it will be investigated? However, as a good neighbour, you should do whatever you can to limit it?

 

I try and use the "do as you would be done by" philosophy. If a neighbours dog barking all day irritates me enormously, why inflict a rooster (that is likely to do the same (well crow, not bark!!)) on my neighbours and irritate them in return. Why antagonise the people I share my surroundings with?

 

This is just it...I want to eliminate as much conflict before my cockerel finds his voice. He's 12-13 weeks old and currently doesn't live at home, he is in a more rural location (but can't stay there long term ) until we know just how noisy he is - if he crows once or twice a day, I'm willing to bring him home and test the waters. We live in quite a noisy area, there is nearly always some source of noise that people seem quite content to live with...and this is what I want to know what the guidelines are.

 

Perhaps I should just put a note through everyones door saying that I am introducing a cockerel (add the sob story that he will be culled otherwise) but if you are affected by any noise he should make, please return this letter (perhaps add a questionnaire to find out how effected they are...) and he will be removed...

 

That may be the easiest way to keep the peace.

[Ailie]

Thanks Ailie - so just because they dislike the noise, it doesn't necessarily mean the noise must stop, it just means it will be investigated? However, as a good neighbour, you should do whatever you can to limit it?

 

Indeed. And don't underestimate just how disruptive people complaining about noise can be!

 

Perhaps I should just put a note through everyones door saying that I am introducing a cockerel (add the sob story that he will be culled otherwise) but if you are affected by any noise he should make, please return this letter (perhaps add a questionnaire to find out how effected they are...) and he will be removed...

 

That may be the easiest way to keep the peace.

 

I think that giving your neighbours some warning is a really, really good idea. That way, if they do have an issue with the noise, they'll think of you as a reasonable person that they're able to talk to about the situation, rather than involving environmental health!