Batty Bantam Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Whoops! I checked the house deeds last night and we're not allowed to keep poultry in our garden! Are house deeds law? Can deeds be changed? What happens if the neighbours find out? Could we be prosecuted and thrown in jail for eternity?! Does anybody keep chickens who shouldn't really? I only wanted a couple of hens as pets. Looks like we'll have to get a new house as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I have no idea if we can. Our deeds are kept by the mortgage company which we were told was the norm. I'm beginning to get suspicious about that now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlottechicken Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Our deeds are kept by the mortgage company which we were told was the norm. I'm beginning to get suspicious about that now. It is the norm for the lender to store the deeds. However, I would advise everyone to get a copy of theirs, sometimes interesting things show up which you may need to know. Mine shows that shared boundaries are equally maintained, and my neighbour thought my right hand side fence was my responsibility because that is usual, but not in our case. I am not allowed to have a strawberry or beer garden either . I think there is a way of overturning these type of sanctions, but it may depend on why they were imposed in the first place, and how long ago. For instance, my house is Victorian, so I may get away with selling strawberries now It may be cheaper to obtain copies of deeds from tha land registry than through your lender by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah 2 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 My dad check my deeds for me. They were fine but he did say even if they did say we couldn't, the company had gone bust so noone could inforce them anyway. My house was built in the 70's. So maybe this is something you could find out. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlottechicken Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Just found out it is called a "restrictive covenant" and it can be enforced by someone with "a landed interest". In this case this could be a neighbour who is affected by a breach of any particular covenant, or the person who sold the land used to build your house on. In the case of new developments this might also include the developer - who clearly has a vested interest in the area looking neat and tidy while they are still trying to sell houses in the area or in an area which still has development land. Probably best not to tell the neighbours right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfrock Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 It used to be that the mortgage lender kept the deeds. This changed very recently (in the last year or 2) and now if you remortgage or you buy a new (as in another) house, they no longer keep them. Some building societies are returning them as a matter of course, others are waiting until the above happens Hope that helps! Claire x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlottechicken Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 It used to be that the mortgage lender kept the deeds. This changed very recently (in the last year or 2) and now if you remortgage or you buy a new (as in another) house, they no longer keep them. Some building societies are returning them as a matter of course, others are waiting until the above happens Thanks for that. That explains why a colleagues relative has her deeds to a recently purchased property, we couldn't work out why! Everything is now online with the Land Registry I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannie Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 We've virtually paid off our mortgage, but left a small amount owing so that they continue to look after our deeds - saves having to rent a safety deposit box! No idea what they say though! But if we don't know, then how would anyone else?? I did phone the council before we got our chooks, and the chap their said his grandparents had chickens in the war, so he didn't see why we shouldnt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Batty Bantam: If you have nice neighbours who like chickens, you can take a chance (unless they are likely to be moving in the near future). But if your neighbours don't like the idea of chickens, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in law and would have to get rid of your chickens and pay costs, so it isn't worth the risk. Restrictive covenants are made in favour of people's neighbours, and they are the only people who can get them enforced. You are very sensible to read them before buying chickens: everyone should! As I have said before on this list, I just don't understand why solicitors don't go through these covenants prior to house purchase any more. I had to listen to my solicitor read out each covenant which I had to say I understood, before purchase. The other option is to pay your neighbours compensation to get the restrictive covenants removed, but this could be costly -- and of course I don't know how many neighbours you have! But this would mean that you could then keep chickens for all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Bantam Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 Thanks for your replies. We somehow obtained a copy of the deeds but I don't know where the originals are kept! Our house was built about 15 years ago by a builder who went bust and no longer exists. I suppose this means that it's really down to keeping the neighbours sweet? Who would they complain to anyway? They won't be able to see the hens, and won't be able to hear them either as my kids are too noisy, and they've never complained about the kids! And the neighbours the other side won't be able to hear anything over the din from their radio . . . ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 we got a copy of our house deeds and restrictive covenant from our solicitor after we'd bought the house - fortunately it doesn't say anything about not having chickens. I don't think they are the originals though, just copies which the solicitor got as part of the searches and what not that are done before you buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Bantam Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 Gallina! I think we were writing at the same time! Very sensible advice, for which I thank you. I am gutted! Although all the neighbours around here break various covenants which we let slide, I would be heartbroken to bond with hens only to have to give them away . . . Sometimes it is just not meant to be . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Our deeds state no chickens or pidgeons. We've had our chickens for a year and no complaints. It also states in the deeds no caravans, no boats and no commercial vans on driveways - and they've all been broken in our cul-de-sac so if they complain about my chicken....then I'll complain about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Gallina! I think we were writing at the same time! Very sensible advice, for which I thank you. I am gutted! Although all the neighbours around here break various covenants which we let slide, I would be heartbroken to bond with hens only to have to give them away . . . Sometimes it is just not meant to be . . . I'd be inclined to risk it. I know others have. My deeds state that i am bot allowed to keep a "disorderly house" which is lawyer speak for brothel! Drat!! I'm not allowed to keep sheep either. Who ever drew up my deeds was an old miseryguts. The very two things I have always wanted to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 my deeds say no chickens.....but it doesnt mention pigs .....so If they made me get rid of my chooks then we'd go and get pigs!! and they could do nothing about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I feel awful if I have put you off. If you are on reasonable terms with your neighbours and they are not likely to be offended by hens, then they are unlikely to enforce the covenant. Covenants are only enforced when the people in whose favour they were written protest. A large house in Oxford was going to be purchased as the palace of the Bishop of Oxford: but negotiations fell through last year when the Church of England learnt that there were covenants on the garden forbidding any building there (and they had hoped to build offices). These covenants were still being enforced by the current and previous owner of the house. But they can also be removed. There was a covenant on the football ground in Oxford in favour of the adjoining Bowls Club, saying that the ground could only be used for sport. The stadium owner paid £8,000 to the Bowls Club to release the covenant, and now we have the Manor Hospital on the former Manor Ground site. Covenants banning chickens are really to stop free-range flocks: in the past they were considered to lower the tone of a neighbourhood. If you only have a couple of chickens and keep them in a run, it is hardly the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Batty, what Gallina has said is right -in theory, the covenant could be enforced. However - firstly,will your neighbours notice chickens? If they do notice them, will they complain? How likely is it that THEY know about the restrictive covenant? If they did know, and want to complain, they'd have to take a civil action to enforce it which would cost them money ... obviously if they started that, you'd be daft to resist it because you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but it's not as if they can just go the police about it! It might be worth casually dropping it into the conversation, and see if they respond 'Oooh, you're not allowed ...' - my guess is they will be as curious as most of our neighbours are about it, and probably have no idea about any restrictions! Most modern estates have restrictions about e.g. parking caravans in front gardens - how often are they broken! and does anyone ever complain? It's got to be worth a try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starboyhull Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I'm gonna get my other half to check ours as i'm sure the deeds to our house say something daft about not having an orchard and other daft things...... It hasnt stopped us, we will be bribing the people next door with eggs though just in case they want to compain I'm sure most sensible people wouldnt complain anyway, as long as they are not causing a problem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina C Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I can't have pigs, according to our deeds. I always wonder why that was written in. Ours is a 1950s house. I assume everyone had chickens in those days so it was just seen as normal. But why not pigs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Poorer people often fattened a pig at the bottom of their garden, but because it was kept in a confined space and fed disgusting leftovers, the pig and its pen would stink. The neighbours would suffer from the smell and from flies. Covenants are there to stop people doing what they think is reasonable but which might offend other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina C Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Thanks Gallina - I suspected something like that but I also thought that chickens might have been kept confined too - but I suppose even then they don't small quite as much as a pig would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Bantam Posted June 24, 2007 Author Share Posted June 24, 2007 Ooh gosh there's a lot to think about! No I've not been put off keeping chickens! I was even looking at houses for sale in the area!! Of course I would check the deeds first next time! Keeping a couple of hens is something I've always wanted to do but it didn't occur to me that you could keep them in a back garden until I saw an article about the Eglu, and then trawling through this site I realised I really could do it! I even have the ideal area where none of the neighbours would even see a cube, so they couldn't complain about then being unsightly! I'll definately try the casually dropping hens into the conversation approach although I don't really know one set of neighbours - yet! And yes, the other neighbours do park a commercial vehicle right outside our front room window even though they're not allowed to park it anywhere on the estate! Thank you all ever so much for all your help! Faith has been restored! Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pearsons Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 It's also a matter of scale. Having 20 or more hens is definately keeping poultry but just 2 or 4 would be having pet birds wouldn't it? I know lots of people who have aviaries in their gardens so an eglu or a cube is really just a fancy aviary........ Having said that my house is in the middle of nowhere so there are no rules about keeping hens...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkleeeeee Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 we had a poultry covenant on our old house because the land behind it when they were built had loads of chickens on. when we moved into the mill house we didnt have any deeds as nationwide had a fire sometime in the past and they were destroyed. we dont know if there are any covenants and we are still bound by them even though we dont know what they are, but the chances of anybody else knowing what they were is pretty slim. it would have been nice to look at the deeds as we have a little bit of history from the norfolk mills website of the old mill and the new one but not alot about the house. we dont even know how old it is the newer mill was 1850ish but we dont know how old the origional mill was and when they built the house. if anybody says about my chickens i will say that i heard that the old miller kept hens and i am keeping with tradition. i would say dont worry, just dont upset the neighbours and if they say about the covenant just say its not on your deeds (how will they know!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnrob Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 If you have bought or re-mortgaged your house since 1998 then you can look up lots of useful information (including restrictive covenants) about it at the Land Registry website www.landregistry.gov.uk You have to pay a small fee (£3 I think) and the service isn't available between midnight and 7am for some reason! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
