Part 0800.0005

[Ain't Nobody Here]

Can the Social Work department take over my mum's affairs if she has no Power of Attorney? I've only recently been made aware of this by her carer who is very worried as they are threatening to do this if the arrangements for her Direct Payments and schedule of carers aren't to their satisfaction. I thought my brother was P of A but they say he's not. She still has capacity but can they attempt to challenge that? She does have an extremely poor memory but she's still perfectly capable of making decisions, she just forgets them afterwards.

 

The carer and mum are meeting a social worker tomorrow morning (and the social worker has said she will be quite "brutal" with mum to make her see how important this is ) and I'm seeing the same woman tomorrow afternoon.

 

Surely if she has 2 children who can act in her interests, that's what should happen?

 

My mum has asked me to write a letter to her lawyers for her to sign detailing changes to her will and to make me Power of Attorney but it can't happen overnight . I'm worried that they'll not accept it if they think she's not got capacity.

[Olly]

I don't know if the rules are different in Scotland, but here it would have to be an application to the Court of Protection, and it would be usual for a family member, if one is available, to be appointed. You and your brother would have to be notified of any application.

 

Sorry to say it, but from your description of her I doubt that your mum is in a fit mental state to sign a Power of Attorney. As I say, I'm only familiar with this process in England & Wales and it might be different for you.

[The Dogmother]

I agree with Olly. We went through this a couple of years back with my mother; my father has Lasting PA for her affairs now, but the forms and the process took quite a while to get through.

[Ain't Nobody Here]

Olly, I know from what I've said about mum in the past that would seem to be the case but these days she's a lot more lucid apart from the memory loss. She spent a day in hospital at the w/e and they found she had low blood pressure (she's had astronomically high BP her whole life) so they've altered her meds - her carer and I both think she's a lot less confused now. The trouble is, it depends on the day how tired she is - on a good day, she's as able as anyone to discuss things rationally with full understanding.

[Tweety]

I don't know the definitive answer to you question, I'm afraid, but I would urge you to get some legal advice.

 

I'm sure that Social Services would not be able to do anything without applying to the appropriate court, but I would try to pre-empt that by finding out exactly where you stand and trying to sort something out before matters get out of your control.

[The Dogmother]

You local Citizen's Advice Bureau would be worth a try, or most solicitors will give a free half hour of advice.

[merlina]

This can be complicated (and the law has changed fairly recently), but my understanding is that:

Getting a Power of Attorney is much harder/more expensive/complex than it used to be - but as social workers are involved, that would seem to be your best bet.

To give this power, a doctor must agree that she is competent - try and get a doctor who knows her well (and so understands the memory lapses etc) to sign on this (and keep a copy to wave under the noses of social workers)

 

Social workers can only take over this power if they can show it is in your mum's best interests - eg because her bills weren't being paid; family or others were disposing of her assets etc and there was no-one more suitable to do this (you'd need to check the last bit, my knowledge is a bit rusty)

 

Personally, I'd be talking to the social workers to ask what their concerns were and what they wanted to achieve (in as nice and reasonable a manner as you can muster

[Bramble]

Oh dear, sorry you are having more problems.

I'm in England where I realise things can be very different, but from my relatively extensive experience, Social Services will move heaven and earth to get someone else to take on the responsibility of managing your mum's affairs for her - they REALLY do not want the hassle/expense etc of having to do it themselves if someone else will do it for them. If they doubt Mum has capacity, they may well seek to get someone appointed as her Deputy via the Court of Protection - but that is usually a relative and certainly, as a relative, you would be more than entitled to challenge an application by Social Services to have one of their people appointed - I doubt the CoP would appoint someone other than family unless there was a good reason for them not to.

As others have said, the law in this area has changed signficantly over recent years (in England, anyway). The good old days of the Enduring Power of ATtorney are long gone - we now have Lasting Powers of Attorney, which in some ways are better than EPAs, but largely not as good and hugely expensive in comparison, which means lots of people do nothing rather than the old EPA.

However, it is important to remember that there is a presumption that a person has the capacity to do something unless it can be shown.that they do not have the capacity.

YOu should be ready to stand up to Social Services, they will wait AGES to be paid for care packages for lots of people, trust me, as long as they know they will get paid eventually, they generally don't worry about being paid NOW.

GOOD LUCK

[Ain't Nobody Here]

Thanks for all the advice, folks .

 

The SW did say last week that she would be delighted if I'd take over responsibility for mum's care arrangements (my brother was contacted by her but didn't respond, so mum's carer gave her my number). Mum's carer hasn't even been paid for 6 weeks as the SW dept isn't happy with the current arrangement. She's basically working for no pay at present which really isn't fair.

 

I wasn't aware that being a P of A was such a tricky thing to arrange. I'm hoping that a letter from mum to her lawyers requesting that I become hers will start the ball rolling.

[Bramble]

Just a thought - but Mum doesn't have to have just one Attorney, she can appoint one, two or more and can stipulate whether they should only act together, or can act separately or a combination of the two. That said, I'm rather thinking that your brother isn't a very good choice!?

[freddie]

Your mum can nominate you as a signitory at her bank , as a stopgap, we did this with my aunt. Also be there for the SW meeting . This is important.

From October 2008, there is a Enduring /lasting power of attorney. About £800, at that time. It's fairly easy to get but expensive. Dont let the SW team walk all over yr mum, they will try. Pay them up to date if you can, then try to sort out payment arrangements monthly or weekly, whichever siuts best to all. Beware the SW, also as they book out time "generously", pushing their staff too hard(the actual care workers don't get paid very much, but you get charged a heap)

Good luck with it. protect your mum, she needs you now.

[Blackrocksrock]

Our solicitor did it no problems and we are in Scotland. He knew mum and he knew me.

[hilda-and-evadne]

Social Services will move heaven and earth to get someone else to take on the responsibility of managing your mum's affairs for her - they REALLY do not want the hassle/expense etc of having to do it themselves if someone else will do it for them.

 

There is an exception to this, in my experience. If "Mum" owns assets.

 

There are many people recounting similar experiences on the Money Saving Expert forum.

[chuckmum6]

My brother and I had to get P of A after my mum had a stroke and my dad's interest in her money was questionable. I am a lay person, but found the forms were something that I could complete without giving solicitors £600. The process took ages, but it was worth the wait (9wks) and worth saving hundreds of £.

[Ain't Nobody Here]

Maybe I will look into it after all then. I'm quite capable of filling in forms and as you say, if it saves hundreds of ££!