urbanchick Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Yes that was my question when I read the article - who has funded this? I have tried to find out, but there is no information on the internet. This research gives no indication of the different types of stress a hen is under. I have watched my hens dart under a tree for cover when a seagull flies overhead, which is a natural response that no doubt raises stress levels, but this is a short lived and they experience a great deal of other emotions such as contentment and excitement the rest of the time. Did this study measure happiness levels as well? No! On the other hand battery hens must suffer a constant, unrelenting level of stress , which surely is considered more cruel. What's to say the both these experiences do not result in the same overall level of cortisone? I doubt very much the Telegraph cares about these opinions as they are just happy to sell newspapers. I shouldn't think the media care about the effect the MMR "scandal" has had on vaccination uptake either (sorry controversial I know). I have no problem with the media reporting these things but they do so in such an hysterical way that alot of people who don't think about what they are reading will take it as fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 I don't think it is fair to blame the media. They are reporting on a serious piece of university research. The Sunday Telegraph wasn't the only paper to report on it: you can also read about it here in the Mail on Sunday. If you do a Google search for "Jeff Downing" + hens you will find that he has been researching chickens for years at the University of Sydney. I dare say that battery hens do have lower stress levels: they have no stimulation in their lives. But lack of stress does not mean a happy life (otherwise we would sedate people and keep them in bed all the time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeckyBoo Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 But surely the thing is, wether they're stressed, or "happy" or not, it's not the natural way for chickens to live. When they're given a chance to live a more natural life their combs reduce in size, the colour up, their feathers grow back and they start to look the way they are supposed to. We shouldn't be keeping any animal in such an artificial way just to suit our own convenience in my opinion, cows are supposed to eat grass not sheep brains, that's how we ended up with BSE, chickens are supposed to scratch about and live in the open, not fester in cages. Just my opinion but there you go. Mrs Bertie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I googled him too Gallina The fact is 'intensive caged egg production'' denies a hen the instinctive behaviour that makes it content and happy. Why does a hen removed from a cage scratch the earth, dust bathe and sunbathe and stick it's head into a dish of water oh and not forgetting the sweetie that travelled back on my lap in June. It was 2 mins and then walked and flapped. They do it because they want to...No research can disprove what you see with your own eyes. Any animal, or human for that matter, kept in poor conditions all their life think it's normal. Give a hen the outside life and they choose it. Just ask our girls who squawk to be let out of the run, and they have a wonderful life Anyway off I go again...sorry BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theherd123 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I think Shrimp should send her picture to the Telegraph and tell the 'nice' reporter there all about her experiences.[/color] You know, i will have a word with the girls and see what they think - im sure they would like their picture in the paper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 I have just read a piece by Ross Clark in The Times today where he unfortunately agrees with the findings of Jeff Downing: he says, "I don't know where the notion that battery-farming is cruel came from, but it certainly didn't arise from the birds". Here is the article online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Quote from the Australian Egg Corp. Hardly surprising this research was funded is it? Cage Eggs Most eggs sold in Australia are cage eggs. These eggs come from hens that are permanently housed in cages within a shed. Hens in this system enjoy the benefits of better disease control, protection from predators and significantly lower mortalities. I'd perhaps live a longer life if I didn't 'live' life exposed to the outside world but I'd still choose to be out of a cage. A choice between existing and living. BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 If the findings are right then can we assume that animals are less stressed in zoo's than they are living free and that prisoners are happier being confined to a tiny cell than they would be living at home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovemychooks Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Eglutine, you've hit the nail on the head. Why don't these people realise how cruel it is That article has made me so made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milly Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Quote from the Australian Egg Corp. Hens in this system enjoy the benefits of better disease control, protection from predators and significantly lower mortalities. What they mean by disease control is medication whether they need it or not. But they generally need it because they are kept in such close confinement. A friend just sent me an email about the Compassion in World Farming campaign against battery farming. Battery farming in the EU is supposed to be phased out in 2012, but that is looking less likely (particularly with research like this) [/urlhttp://www.ciwf.org.uk/home/news_keep_the_ban_tour.shtml] I'm not sure if the link will work. How do you get a nice neat link like the ones some people have that say just click here (rather than showing the link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules. Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm not sure if the link will work. How do you get a nice neat link like the ones some people have that say just click here (rather than showing the link? I am just as baffled about the link thingy as you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starboyhull Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 If you type this one below without the * you would get the link further down...... [*url=http://www.omlet.co.uk]omlet website[/url] omlet website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milly Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm glad someone knows how to do it! Thank you. Here is the link again: Compassion in World Farming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Wife Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 'Significantly lower mortalities'. Over the same period? ie the twelve months they are in the cage before being slaughtered for the food chain. I don't think you can compare this to the five or six years natural lifespan of a free-ranger. You can support anything you want with statistics - they don't mean anything. The fact is it is UNNATURAL for any animal to live its life in a cage. You cannot justify this by saying they don't have to worry about predation and have better disease control etc. By saying that they are trying to make out that these birds have an acceptable standard of life and to believe that you really would have to be someone devoid of any compassion or interest in animal welfare. Basically it seems like they are trying to justify this practice by saying that it's OK because they don't know any different. It makes me sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I don't know all the science behind this ... but I've seen enough pictures of ex-battery hens. They don't look natural - what's natural about a hen with no feathers? What's natural about living in a space the size of a magazine cover? I still don't think enough people realise - or think about - where non-free-range eggs come from. Of course the battery farmers will be delighted with this research. We need to raise public awareness of how these eggs are produced. In future, I'm only going to give my eggs (I don't sell them) to friends who promise they will not buy battery eggs again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 We mustn't forget the consumer is voting with their shopping basket Free range eggs sell more than battery. The hidden egg is still the problem and that's why I was given my role in BHWT. The more we talk about eggs in products the more the consumer can make an informed choice. The British consumer is smart and once they know, they'll choose the right products I am sure. British consumers also have to pay a few pence more for things and the British Egg producers will get enough incentive to go from cage to a free range system. The farmer isn't to blame here, they supply to the consumer demand. Check your labels BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowcloud Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 I think it was good timing that the River Cottage programme this week focussed on chickens - did you see it? Four people who loved buying chicken products that were really cheap and produced in battery farms. He showed them the farms and how they differed from the chickens on his farm. Hopefully this had some impact on the public to go against what the papers seemed to be saying...? Check it out here... River Cottage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted July 19, 2007 Author Share Posted July 19, 2007 There was a good letter about the Australian research in The Times today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhapsody Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Very good letter in the Times, mirroring everything we have all said on this thread. If we follwed the original article's argument to its logical conclusion all animals would be locked up in dark sheds where they couldnt be 'stressed' at all. Also, why would de-beaking still go on? Surely if they are so happy they wouldnt be pecking each other.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Brilliant and I have forwarded to Jane. A useful contact! BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starboyhull Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Glad I caught back up with this thread, nice to see the Times having a different view point, or at least highlighting what people have said on here..... I think that river cottage programme will have helped too, my Grandma watched it and was horrified by the battery hen system.......I dont think she every thought about it before then, so at least she is now making the right choices when she goes shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-s Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I think it was good timing that the River Cottage programme this week focussed on chickens - did you see it? Four people who loved buying chicken products that were really cheap and produced in battery farms. He showed them the farms and how they differed from the chickens on his farm. Hopefully this had some impact on the public to go against what the papers seemed to be saying...? Check it out here... River Cottage I watched this programme first time round and again this week. I asked OH to watch it with me this week as he still buys and eats intensively reared Chicken and microwave chicken ready meals He refused to watch on the grounds that he likes chicken and it is all we can afford We are not poor by any standards I always buy free range chicken and the children prefer it as it has more taste If OH has bought chicken I refuse to eat it and just have the veg OH attitude especailly refusing to watch the programme really upset me and I admit to shedding a little tear or two in frustration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starboyhull Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Ali im sure your OH will come round in the end, even by you and the children eating more free range products is helping the situation....... I think some people are scared by the thought of how food starts off and if they dont know or refuse to watch a programme then it doesnt happen......Wonder if you swapped the eggs with some nice organic ones if he would notice and then realise??? Although he may not be too happy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-s Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Even Oh wouldn't dare bring cheap battery eggs into the house Quite often the chicken ready meals dissapear from the freezer That is not the answer though as the poor chicken has still had to endure a rotten short life before ending up in a plastic tray. The farmer still made his 3 pence profit from that chicken from the ready meal producer so the demand for that chicken is still there. I made a decision after the River Cottage programme to buy all our meat myself using my own money Hopefully after a while OH will come round, I do hope so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 The trouble is that every time people start to come round, a scientist like that Australian throws a spanner in the works. Did you all see the research in December which said that free-range chicken was not so tasty or so good for you as battery chicken? Here it is. You will all hate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
