Installing Indoor Cat Tree

[kissinuk]

Hi, I am very interested in getting an eglu with 2 chickens. However after checking the deeds at the weekend I came across a problem (I kind of had a feeling there would be...).

 

The house is fairly new (8 years), the exact wording is as follows "Not to keep on the property any livestock poultry pigeons or other animals or birds (other than domestic pets)". Clearly the question is, are hens kept as pets classed as such?

 

I have asked my council who aren't concerned other than if I had cockerels or if I build a large hen house without planning permission (!).

 

I have asked my MP who has sent me a very nice reply saying the 'domestic pets' part "leaves the door open for whatever you

define as a pet", he goes on to say the definition is "a domesticated animal treated with affection and kept for pleasure or companionship". He then says as long as I didn't go mad and have say 25 birds then he doesn't see the issue.

 

I have also contacted the builders who drew up the original deeds, they have passed my query on the the relevant dept, hopefully hear back soon...

 

My question is, what is the general feeling for such wording in deeds? Turn a blind eye, or should I carry on until I get an outcome? I expect the wording is just there to protect people from people who go mad breeding hens and keeping cockerels, but I don't want to end up with a court case over some chooks!

 

Paul.

[Egluntyne]

If your chickens are in an Eglu, and have names, and you consider them to be pets, then they are pets, surely.

 

The only snag might be if a neighbour was awkward about it.

 

That is where bribing with eggs comes in.

 

It might be a problem that you have flagged the issue with the builder, which a reasonable person would think was the honest and decent thing to do....but they might come back with a great big NO!

 

If the property is freehold and not leasehold you will be in a better position to call the shots.

 

Good luck.

[Ladylucan]

Well legally i havent got a clue, but at the end of the day my girls are my pets, i dont raise them to eat, i treat them like i do the rest of the animals i have , they get fed, watered, spoilt rotten, cuddled, the only thing i dont do with them is take them out for walks,.

 

I would consider them a domestic pet, they can sit on my lap, like my dogs do, so enjoy them...... we all do x

[Snowy]

From previous posts, I get the impression that it's only an issue if someone complains. Visit your neighbours, mention free eggs occasionally and test the water. It they seem OK about it, go for it!

[Martin B]

We ignored ours, the landlord came over and was very impressed with our zoo, It's the first time he has put the rent up this year in 5 years! Only by £200 a year though!

 

He's quite a nice bloke to be honest!

[Gallina]

Hens are poultry. The law has not yet caught up with the fact that chickens can now also be classed as domestic pets: it has only happened in the last three years. So you have to be careful. You wouldn't have a case if one of your neighbours complained (and it doesn't have to be a next-door neighbour).

 

If all your neighbours are happy, you could take a chance (provided that none of them is likely to move away in the next few years).

 

I would also write to your MP: it is the law that needs changing. Up to (say) six chickens in a garden that is over (say) 100sq m in size should be classified as pets, provided that they are kept for most of the time in a run.

[Guest]

We recently moved to a new-build, and our deeds had a similar clause - when we spoke to our solicitor, she suggested that we speak to our neighbours, and pointed out that the vast majority of people wouldn't know who to speak to to have a clause upheld, should you be found to be flouting it. The vast majority of people break clauses in deeds without realising it.....

[arowland17]

I was worried about house deeds and checked ours which didn't mention animals/poultry/livestock but it did clearly state no caravans or van parked on drives or outside houses and there's a caravan, big lorry and a van parked on roadside and drives along our road and no one really minds, I don't think I'd waste my time upholding the clause they're breaking, and most people wont even know about the hen clause unless they're looking at keeping hens themselves.

[kissinuk]

Thanks for the advice.

 

Should my neighbours complain and I have no leg to stand on, well, lets just say they will need to take down that brand new (expensive) TV aerial which has just gone up (also banned in the deeds!). Hope it doesn't get to that stage though.

 

I'm sure they wouldn't mind, only one house will be able to see them at a push, so most probably won't even know.

 

Thing that concerns me most is bringing attention to the garden should kids walk past and hear them. It's a nice neighbourhood but you never know....

[arowland17]

we were very paranoid about neighbours complaining of the noise even though it's not in our house deeds that we can't keep chickens so there's nothing they could do about it but still worried - we have 2 hens and have had them nearly 3 weeks, I think 1 neighbour can see them and they did make a bit of a racket at first when they thought we should feed them treats all day and let them out all the time!! but they've quietened right down, and even though they made some noise it was nothing compared to kids playing, lawnmowers, dogs barking etc, we were just overly conscious of it cos they were in our garden where I'm sure it sounded noisier and cos we were worried!

not had a word from any of the neighbours so apart from the ones that can see them the others either haven't noticed or don't care!

[Leicester_H]

Hi

I think its wise to be careful - you don't want to get attached to them only to have to lose them - neighbours can change.

 

Our house deeds (or equivalent) said someting like no livestock for breeding or commecial purposes - so PET chickens are fine.

 

Is there a CAB you could ask ?

 

H

[xChicken04x]

Our house deeds didnt say we could have chickens but it didnt say we could'nt either so we just got some anyway.

Isnt it the same as having a pet some pet rabbits in your garden?

xx

[arowland17]

we used to keep guinea pigs in our garden and they made a right racket squeaking all the time, no one would be able to stop you keeping them as pets though, and I would think that 2 chickens are pets - no one could argue ours aren't pets, they have a little colourful windmill on their run! and the eglu is clearly a pet's home, it's nothing like a commercial egg production farm is it!!

[Gallina]

If your house deeds don't ban poultry or livestock, then you can keep as many chickens for your own domestic use as you want, as long as they don't cause a nuisance. House deeds never tell you what you can do, or they would be thousands of pages long.

 

They just tell you what you are definitely prohibited from doing. This can include converting your house into a pub, building a ten-foot-high dividing wall, or altering the building line at the front. All were very sensible prohibitions at the time they were made. Livestock (including poultry) was often banned in town houses for obvious reasons, but rarely in the country. (Some of these houses in the countryside are now suburbs, which is probably why so many people in suburbs keep pet chickens.)

 

No, in the eyes of the law keeping chickens is not at all the same as keeping pet rabbits: it is regarded in the same way as keeping pigs. The law obviously needs updating.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Guest

[Leicester_H]

Our house deeds didnt say we could have chickens but it didnt say we could'nt either so we just got some anyway.

Isnt it the same as having a pet some pet rabbits in your garden?

xx

 

Yes BUT if the deeds SPECIFICALLY said that you couldn't keep pet rabbits (or whatever) then you couldn't keep pet rabbits (or whatever).

If it doesn't say either way, then its OK.

 

The orignal poster said the deeds contained the phrase 'other than domestic pets' - hence I would say that PET chickens are allowed.

[chelsea]

Our house deeds DO state NO poultry or pidgeons.

 

It also says no to caravans, boats and commercial vans on driveways and these rules have all been broken in our cul-de-sac. So if we were challenged by a neighbour we can say "well so and so has this"!

 

I know we are in the wrong for keeping them, but our house is over 20 years old and it doesnt seem like anyone takes any notice of their deeds here.

 

Only 1 neighbour has even sussed we have chickens.

 

As long as you dont get a huge flock, I think you will be ok. I personally think that the enjoyment of keeping chickens totally outweighs the risk of going against your deeds, buts thats my situation.

 

If a neighbour got really funny about our chooks we would just say to them "ok, we'll get rid of the chickens and get some pigs then" because it doesnt state we cant keep pigs....and then we'll see what they'd rather have !!