kitbag Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I was wondering if any of you were going to be watching this programme tonight! I will be - I find it really interesting lol! The thing is, he clearly isn't a man if he is able to have a baby! Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 He's NOT a man. I agree with you. Simple as that. He might be one day (his choice, please don't think I'm being judgemental) but he clearly wasn't when he conceived. Can't believe how stupid the media have been about this. Can't believe how stupid he has been about this. If he and his partner wanted a baby then they must surely consider that child's feelings as it grows up. People can be hurtful and to have it widely advertised that this 'man' was having a baby was irresponsible to say the least. For all concerned, it would surely have been better if this had been kept low-key. Might not have been as profitable but better for the baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 He was originally female and although he has had mastectomies, he hasn't had a hysterectomy, so is essentially still female. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I wonder how he feels inside. My understanding is that in order to have such drastic sex change reconstructive surgery you have to convince several doctors of your complete and utter dislike of the body that you live in. To then choose to use that body to do what comes most naturally to it must be very contradicting to how he feels. Hope that all came out right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 It did. I know exactly what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I wouldn't be able to watch it - would start me on a rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitbag Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 I wouldn't be able to watch it - would start me on a rant Lol! Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ain't Nobody Here Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I saw that was on. I'm out tonight so might tape it. Apparently he's pregnant with his second child now . (That just doesn't feel right, typing that sentence .) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen & co. Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I know what you mean ANH, I can't get my head around having double mastectomies and some degree of hormone therapy, but not the whole hog or the body of that person wouldn't be able to maintain a pregnancy so externally you present as one gender and internally as another The cynic in me says it was all for the money received for interviews and photos which are of course ongoing. Karen x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Shouldn't the headlines read: First pre-op transexual to have a baby Or would that not rake in as much cash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couperwife Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 then it wouldnt be true there has been plenty of women who have changed gender after having children. and also plenty of men who have "fathered" children and then changed gender. so why is this in the news??? is it because of the short hair and beard?? hmmmm dont understand dont think ill be watching it cathy x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 All I can work out is so far she has had a double masectomy. If I was a cancer patient who had had to have had one then I would be really upset that that then makes you become a man int he eyes of the media. (how many double words was that sentence- I confused myself) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 he/she seems to want his/her cake and to eat it to! The whole thing reminds me of a Victorian freak show and I feel sorry for the baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clootie Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Shouldn't the headlines read: First pre-op transexual to have a baby Or would that not rake in as much cash? Well said Janty !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhapsody Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I watched it last night, I thought "I'll give it 10 minutes while the ads are on Dave, then stop watching the freakshow." But I have to say I watched quite a lot of it. Thomas came across as the sweetest, gentlest, most positive and happy person I have seen on TV in a long time. The decision to retain a womb and ovaries was a well-thought out one as his partner was infertile, and they sold rights to their story to give their family financial stability. Nancy even stimulated her breasts with oral contraceptive so she could breast feed, which is more than a lot of conventionally born babies get! The daughter (who was a truly beautiful baby) will have to cope with her unique family and will probably get teased at school but hey who doesn't? The people who took so much time to insult and intimidate them on the internet and in person were the real freaks, I'd love to know which part of the Bible tells us to make other people's lives a misery as most of them said they spoke for God. I say good luck to them, they are a lovely couple who love their baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I'm surpirsed at how appallingly this couple were treated; insults screamed at/about their as-yet-unborn child.... How can anyone think that calling an unborn foetus a freak /monster/etc is acceptable? The couple came across as being a likely to provide a loving home for the child, and deeply caring about it. She is unable to have children, and they desperately wanted them. The interviews etc which they sold were to riase funds for the family, but then, they had been running there own business up until the birth and I imagine that many of their customers would no longer buy from them after it. I don't think they were doing it for the money, but they did seem a bit naive about how much media interest and how intrusive it would be, and hated it afterwards. He feels like a man, she sees him as a man, in all other regards he lives his life as a man. I don't think it makes any sense to worry about what label the media choose to put on him. Don't get me wrong, I think that in a perfect ideal world children would be born to parents who were married, would never divorce, never argue, and were completely acceptable to everyone in society. But that's not the way the world is or has ever been. There are plenty of worse family situations to bring a child into than the one this couple have, and they don't seem tog et as much condemnation or hatred directed at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistachio Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I guess it has made such an impact because cases out there on the edge force us to think about our sexuality, fertility, gender and (judging by what people have said about internet discussions) - our ethics too. It makes us ask What does it take to be truly female/male? I tend to think people can call themselves whatever they want - but I wouldn't cheapen maleness by saying I was a man just because I had hormone treatment and some state of the art penis transplant. I'm making no comment on the people in the video because I don't know them and what they do is their own business as long as the child is loved and protected. However - "man is pregnant" wouldn't be my take on it. But like you say "female is desirous of more male identity and body but keeps womb in order to give birth" is not very catchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 An interesting and thought provoking discussion. A loving home is all that matters to the child. I expect Karen Matthews and Craig Meehan would have appeared "normal" to more people than this couple do and look how that turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I must say that I totally agree with Rhapsody on this one. I am a live & let live sort of person, & it seems to me that this couple can provide a loving home for their child, so good luck to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I agree up to the point where they dragged the story through the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I think the person in the video calls himself "male" because that's what he feels like inside, that's how his mind, emotions, etc work. If you rely only on the physical in definitions, then how does it work when e.g. a man whose "boy parts" fell off in a terrible accident, is he no longer male? Less male? Neither male nor female? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I wonder how he feels inside. My understanding is that in order to have such drastic sex change reconstructive surgery you have to convince several doctors of your complete and utter dislike of the body that you live in. To then choose to use that body to do what comes most naturally to it must be very contradicting to how he feels. Hope that all came out right. This is what I was saying earlier. He obviously feels male but to then go on and do something so obviously female must be very hard. I wasn't being judgemental or predudice at all. I just feel that it was so wrong to drag this through the press. I understand from those who watched the programme that this was done for financial reasons and I do truly understand that but I still think that it is wrong. I was offered a lot of money (to me) ten years ago to sell a story to national newspapers and magazines after I had been attacked. Despite me being on my own with my son and having been left with a lot of debt, I decided that for the sake of both myself and my son, that I would be better off keeping my head down and working my way through it. We have survived very well. I have a lovely husband, a potty son and a muddy garden full of hens. What more could a girl want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhapsody Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I just wanted to say Thomas did not have drastic sex- change surgery. He had his very small breasts removed and took testosterone, he has no plans to have an artificial penis and gave birth naturally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 My thought on the media thing is that it would be splashed all over the papers etc anyway, I don't think they got any $$ for the stories and pictures at the start of it all, which were still incredibly intrusive. Given that it would happen anyway, why should they not get something from it rather than have the same troubles but get nothing? And in giving interviews, they were allowed to put there side of the story forward. HOWEVER, this does assume that they would have had no way of preventing the story from coming out in the first place; I don't think they tried to avoid that from happening. And they should have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 My story came out too but it was a page in the local paper and half a page in the News of the World. It wasn't the big thing that it could have been and once I had said no to the offers through my solicitor, the interest died down. I do understand how tempting it can be. They do offer decent amounts of money and it would certainly have cleared the debts that I had and it would have gone a long way towards paying for the court cases that followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
