Ammonia smell in coop-first time owner

[Patricia W]

It sounds as though she could do with some careers guidance. Connexions is the obvious one, but you can go on the internet and find careers assessment tests etc which may give her some ideas. Frankly, if she isn't sure, don't push it. Competition is going to be so fierce for HE places from now on that only those very determined and know where they are going will get in. And end up with huge debts.

 

Don't forget that companies like Waitrose have trainee management schemes which require A levels and not a degree. Many companies prefer to take people through this route rather then the graduate route because people have more useable vocational skills more quickly. There are Advanced Apprenticeship Schemes now as well - see

http//www.apprenticeships.org.uk

 

Three of my 4 went to University, but the one who didn't has done just as well.

 

Tricia

[Seagazer]

Infact thinking about it we (DD, DH or me) know of no-one with a degree who actually has a good job whether they're our age or friends children in their early 20's

 

I can second that statistic!

 

My DD has just finished her degree and starts her job training to be an accountant in October (with a good wage) so it can work out.

 

But my ES is now about to start his 2nd year of apprenticeship in air conditioning.

[chickenanne]

Infact thinking about it we (DD, DH or me) know of no-one with a degree who actually has a good job whether they're our age or friends children in their early 20's

 

I can second that statistic!

 

I would say all my uni friends have "good jobs" - as in they are in fullfilling jobs, are fairly treated and fairly paid - that they wouldn't have got without a degree. Equally loads of people without a degree who have equally fulfilling careers.

 

I guess it depends enormously on what you want to end up doing: a degree in Media Studies is likely not going to be as useful as 3 years experience working on newspapers or the like, though both are likely to be expensive to persue (I don't think interns are paid generally? Dunno though, am happy to be corrected!).

[Lavenders_Blue]

I will share my own experience with you which may or may not be helpful

 

I applied for uni aged 17/18 as did everyone else at my school, because that's what everyone did. There was no question at all about not going to uni - it just wasn't considered an option.

 

As the end of my final year at school approached, I started getting really cold feet and decided to defer for a year and take a year out to work.

 

My parents were fine about this - but I had to use the year constructively. I hadn't really planned it through and knew I would have to get a job but 'at some time in the future...' Well, within weeks my parents were sitting over me as I filled out job application forms and I was in a full time job within a month of leaving school.

 

As it turned out, working quite suited me, and after a year I gave up the deferred place. The next year I thought 'well I really should be going to uni, I suppose' and applied for another uni place... which I also then gave up.

 

I looked into in-house management training schemes for the company I was working for but it didn't really appeal. The job I was doing was okay but I didn't want to work my way up the chain, so I took a bit of annual leave to try some job shadowing for various careers to see if any appealed to me.

 

Finally, after 3 gap years I took up a place at uni to study speech and language therapy (not that I am working as a speech therapist now - but that's another story ) and I went to the local university as I am also a home bird and quite frankly, the thought of moving away was horrific!

 

I was able to keep a part time job at my previous place of work, which funded me through my course.

 

I don't have any regrets about the way I did things. Schools and colleges are quick to push young people into uni as it looks good for their stats but not everyone is ready - either because they are not mentally/emotionally ready (I wasn't) or because they haven't decided on a course (took me 3 attempts to find the right one). There is also nothing wrong with attending a uni close to home. Some people are just not into the whole big uni social scene and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[PapaJuliet]

Infact thinking about it we (DD, DH or me) know of no-one with a degree who actually has a good job whether they're our age or friends children in their early 20's

 

I can second that statistic!

 

I would say all my uni friends have "good jobs" - as in they are in fullfilling jobs, are fairly treated and fairly paid - that they wouldn't have got without a degree. Equally loads of people without a degree who have equally fulfilling careers.

 

I guess it depends enormously on what you want to end up doing: a degree in Media Studies is likely not going to be as useful as 3 years experience working on newspapers or the like, though both are likely to be expensive to persue (I don't think interns are paid generally? Dunno though, am happy to be corrected!).

 

I also don't think I know anybody with a degree who hasn't got a job... mind you, I don't actually know many people who don't have jobs.

 

I totally agree that it depends what degree you do. When I did my degree ... 20 years ago (gulp) ... there were far fewer people who went to university so a degree meant something different.

 

With the increase in the proportion of people going to university, there are more degrees out there which seem to have the sole purpose of keeping the young people occupied (and out of the jobs market) for three years. And if everybody applying for a job has a "new-style" degree, how do you determine which of the many applicants is better for your position.

 

I wouldn't advise that your daughter should go to university just because everybody else does, particularly if she doesn't know what she wants to study. She will probably either drop out or end up with a degree which doesn't have much "weight" to it and won't help her get a job. If she chooses to get a job now, she still gets a chance to change her mind later, in a few years time, maybe, when she really knows what she wants to do. She also starts building up "life-experience" and may find that she she never misses going to university or it may make her more prepared for university and, combined with her degree, give her a better change of getting a job.

 

On the other hand, there are other career choices where having a degree is (almost) mandatory such as medicine or (professional) engineering. But even these you don't have to make your mind up at 17... you should still be able to get on one of these courses either a couple of years down the line or even as a mature student.

 

PJ

[Ms Marple]

So much good yet conflicting advice already - all of it sound. Here's my pennyworth, some of which I think I said on an earlier thread with a similar theme by abwsco.

My ES has just graduated and starts a well paid job at the end of September. He thinks he would like to do a masters in journalism in London, but wanted to get out and work for a while first. He may change his mind who knows as of yet.

He was like Devon in the lower sixth, unsure what to study and getting lots of pressure from his school to apply to uni and to try for Oxbridge also - but in what subject? He was at that time thinkig about law as a career. He decided not to apply and instead applied for a scheme called Year in Industry where he got a paid placement with a law firm. He also worked evenings in our local gym. After about 3 months he hated it. He stuck it out for 6 months, applied to uni (his school were very supportive even after he had left - most usually are) and then went travelling with two other friends for 6 months. (one of whom dropped out of Oxford as he did not feel comfortable there!)

When he got to uni there were lots of boys and girls who had taken gap years = so not a negative. He was asked about his experiences and what they taught him during one of the inerview rounds for his new job - different skills to say myself, who simply went to uni after school 31 years ago. I can see that the experience helped him to feel comfortable about himself and his abilities. The one downside he says was that at the time he felt very lonely and isolated as most of his immediate friends had gone to uni or gone travelling straight away.

There is no right answer here just what is right for your daughter. Explore all the options and be the tower of strength that she needs you to be. You are right to have ground rules though - no job or activity means no valuable skills being acquired!

 

What a ramble - I am never good at brevity! As a Head of Year I don't shout but talk the kids into submission!

[chickenanne]

I took a couple of years out after uni, teaching English overseas. There's no way I would've been able to do it at 17 (the age I was when I went to uni)- it wasn't one of those organised project thingies, it was arranged direct with school I was working in. I totally agree re: it being brilliantly useful for interview, CV, and skills - I learned stuff in those two years that I jsut wouldn't have been able to do /cope with straight our of uni. I am generally pro-gap year, but think it has to be useful /appropriate. It seems a tragedy at 17 to get stuck in a comfortable (if dull) rut.

[ubereglu]

Usually people want to study something specific and then find a university that offers them the best facilities to undertake that particular course, so I find your daughter’s situation quite unusual.

 

I disagree with this. My brother, (who is now 29 and has a PhD in History) and my older sister, (who is 27, married and currently doing a PhD in Chemistry) found it really tough to decide what to do. In the case of my sister she applied to do Natural Sciences and then switched within the first 2 weeks to do Chemistry and Maths and then, after the 1st year switched to do just Chemistry. She eventually graduated in 2005 with a masters degree from Durham, (1st) as in her fourth year she did a paid placement at a chemical company, who then employed her.

 

My other sister knew she wanted to do English, as it was the only thing she was good at, and then did a PGCE at UWIC to become a primary school teacher. By going into teaching this way she broadened her options an awful lot more.

 

This year is my turn and I am applying in September for a mix of Optometry and Biology, (with a sandwich year in industry). As I want to do a science I have no other choice but to go to university as it's the only way I can get the higher level teaching I really need. Currently I've decided on applying to Reading and Durham, (biology) and Manchester, (optom-if I decide I don't want to be so focused I can always switch to biology within the first few weeks).

 

Something that would be really good for Devon to look up about universities is how easy/hard is it to swap courses within the first few weeks at a university and whether the places she is applying to offers the other options. Have you gone to Aberystwyth yet? They're really good for younger people who feel less mature-my teaching sister did this, (she has an August birthday, so always found things harder) and absolutely loved it. My Mum also went there, (she lived miles away from the local town when she was at home).

 

Also, what type of grades does she need? I need a minimum of ABB, (mostly) and it's a horrible wait until results day which is also making my decision so much harder.

 

Good luck,

Liz

[Ms Marple]

Good post Liz. I am the proud owner of a Chemistry degree too!

[ubereglu]

Good post Liz. I am the proud owner of a Chemistry degree too!

 

Thanks! I've had a lot to think about this year and can remember how stressed my sisters were when choosing where to go, it's really not very easy at the minute.

[sadietoo]

My take on this is that once you start work and have a regular wage it is actually quite difficult to give that up to go to Uni. Additionally, if you are not the most confident of people, then Uni is definitely going to help your confidence and social skills and so personally I would be encouraging your DD to apply to Reading (an excellent uni my god-daughter went there and loved it!) and stay in halls for the first year. She could still come home every weekend or as often as was needed, and she will make new friends and still keep in touch with her "home" friends. MY DD is quite sociable but was not overly confident before Uni. This year (her third year at Uni) she is going to be spending an Erasmus year in France. This is not something I could possibly have imagined she would have been capable of whilst still at Sixth form. She is currently negotiating a Co-location place ( a shared flat place with French students) for herself and two other girls going to the same Uni in France this year. I am incredibly proud of her because I know she has had to go well outside her comfort zone to achieve any of this initially, and she is still challenged, but I do feel that she will cope with most things that life throws her after this experience

[kitbag]

I'm in the same year as Devon in school, and I have only recently discovered that I'm really not sure that uni is the right path for me! I'm still looking around though at universitys and have come up with a few options! I would love to be a customs officer (which is on the job training), so I could go straight from my A-levels and train, apply for university and defer my place for a year, or just go to to university. I'm feeling very confused about the whole thing to be honest and just a teeny bit scared!

 

xxx

[sadietoo]

.

I'm in the same year as Devon in school, and I have only recently discovered that I'm really not sure that uni is the right path for me! I'm still looking around though at universitys and have come up with a few options! I would love to be a customs officer (which is on the job training), so I could go straight from my A-levels and train, apply for university and defer my place for a year, or just go to to university. I'm feeling very confused about the whole thing to be honest and just a teeny bit scared!

xxx

 

Kitbag . Life is long but some opportunities do have a limited shelf life...and I think Uni is one of them. I know some people do go to Uni later in life, but I truly think it is best done when you are in your late teens/early twenties at the latest if you are going to really fit in and get the best out of it.

 

Don't forget that Customs and Excise also means VAT and I have a friend fluent in French and German who applied to Customs and Excise and didn't get so much as a sniff at a ferry port!. .. She has done very well in a VAT career, but I am not sure that it was really what she wanted to be doing. Also, the current government is looking to cut costs and that will mean the civil service first I am afraid. I can't help thinking that a degree would give you more options.

 

Regardless of my ramblings what is best for you is what you know to be best for you, and so don't let anyone else make the important decisions for you, you must be happy with the choices you make .. but that doesn't necessarily mean you should feel 100% comfortable with them. It does everyone good to stretch themselves from time to time

and anxious is ok..even paralysed with fear is ok at some times..if everything we worried about came to pass we would be in a sorry state indeed...truth is 99% of the things we worry about never happen. My guess is that everyone contemplating Uni now is feeling more than a bit scared...sometimes you do just have to ride out your fear.

[Looney]

Just wanted to add my experience on here.

 

I wasn't ready to go to uni straight after school, it just didn't feel right. I had a place at uni to study languages which is what I wanted to do so I deferred for a year. I didn't miss my friends that went straight from school (I visited a few in their first year ) and it made no difference that some of them finished one or two years before I did.

 

I worked for the year local to home, a range of jobs from waitressing and cleaning to cooking breakfasts in a Tesco cafe, working on a production line and even being paid to dress up as a chicken and hand out flyers! My parents were worried I wouldn't go to uni when the year was finished but it was never a doubt in my mind, I just needed to have a bit of time out of education. If anything, working for the year made me more determined to go as I realised how limited the job opportunities were for someone my age in my home town (and I got decent A levels too). My course was a 4-year course with a year out abroad (half at uni in Spain and half working for a company in France). I also spent a few extra months in Spain working in an internet cafe and for a bar.

 

After leaving uni (9 years ago, aaargh! ) I temped for a few months then applied for a management entry level recruitment drive. It was one of those where they let you know if you've passed the interview and then you wait to hear whether you are considered 'the best' candidate for any jobs that come up. They did 5 days of interviews, 3 panels interviewing consecutively and ended up with a long list of approved candidates. A month later I was offered a post.......and now to the point of my long-winded post ....

 

I was told by my new boss that I was considered the most suitable person partly due to my degree (the job was in international relations, not actually using the languages I had tho!) but mainly due to my work history. The fact I had shown I was adaptable, could work in difficult situations, could cope with pressure, could communicate well and work well with a range of people etc etc swung the decision in my favour. They even said that someone who would dress as a chicken AND admit to it on work history would go far!

 

My advice for anyone considering uni is: it is your life and your debt (assuming parents aren't funding and loans are involved!), no-one else can tell you what you will enjoy or what is value-for-money.

[kitbag]

Sadietoo - I agree with you that going to uni is usually best for most people in the late teens or early 20s. I also agree that uni would give me options, and would (hopefully) put me into a higher earning job quicker! I was listening to Gordon Ramsey on the radio a couple of months ago and he said the best thing anyone could ever do would be to get out of their comfort zone. I have been doing this lately and doing things the 'old' me would never have done, but i'm just worried that uni will just be too much too soon for me! I just don't feel ready I guess!

Looney - It looks more and more like I will be doing the same sort of thing as you! I spoke to my dad today, and he said if I was to defer my place a year, if I wanted to book a couple of courses in 'useful' subjects, such as secretarial training I can as long as I fund it myself. I'm very lucky with the fact I have had so many opportunities to do voluntary work and work in different environments!

 

Thanks for the advice guys!

xxx

[rosie]

My experience. My daughter is now 19, but in her final year at school she could not decide which subject to study at Uni. I think she must have considered every subject at some time, and her tutors were getting a bit fed up with her. She could not write her personal statement-couldn't say why she wanted to study a particular subject, and her tutors couldn't write their part either until she had made up her mind. We did some Uni visits and she decided that she wanted to go to Leeds (nothing to do with there being a Harvey Nicks there of course!). She eventually decided upon a subject and got her application in at the last moment. We did a subject interview/visit to Leeds and although they made us both very welcome (as a parent I got a super lunch and departmental tour), I never felt I could see her doing that subject, but kept quiet.

Anyway when the results came out for A levels (she did really well) she decided that she didn't want to go to Uni straight away and easily deferred the place for a year. Then on a whim, after talking to a pal who knew someone who had done it, she applied to Mark Warner holidays to work a ski season in France. She did this for a five month period and had a great time. Where else could she have spent such a time skiing, all equipment, ski lessons, board and lodgings were included. Yes, she had to work pretty hard in a hotel, the money only covered expenses, but with lots of other youngsters and she made some good friends. I felt ok about it-though missed her a lot especially at Christmas, as I knew she had somewhere organised to live.

When she returned home she decided that the original subject was not for her. She had been talking with her new friends whilst away and I felt she had matured a lot and knew more about herself. She contacted the Uni and found it easy to change courses. Yes, her A level results were good but she got straight onto a course which normally required aptitude tests.

The year out has given my daughter a lot of confidence, some new great pals, money (she's working like mad now to get some savings-Harvey Nicks here she comes-help ) and also for her to reflect on her choice of subject.She is an awesome skier too-should be after 5 months constant skiing