HELP aggressive chicken

[enpekt]

Plum asked for information about the following in another topic.

 

A friend gave us a Which? report on keeping chickens. (Which? Gardening - July / August 2010).

We've tried to access this on their website to no avail as we're not members.

 

The reporter, Steve Mercer, had an eglu and run installed by Richard from Omlet with stock POL hens.

Some of the information was good in promoting our hobby/lifestyle, but we thought any good was spoilt by his poor care.

 

He stated that water would last, unchanged, for three days in the glug, topping-up if required.

It was suggested that food could be left in the run for similar periods. Vermin attraction was not mentioned.

 

He cleaned the eglu by giving it a scrub and a hose-down every fortnight, then replacing the bedding, spending all of 15 minutes on it.

He stated the bottom tray slides out so the week's accumulation of droppings can be emptied.

 

Hen health was not mentioned. Feeding s"Ooops, word censored!"s was promoted.

 

We were disappointed that a more balanced view than his rose-coloured vision could have been written.

 

Has anyone else seen this article?

Have we misinterpreted it?

 

Comments please...

[Chucky Mama]

Haven't read it but he obviously doesn't know Defra's position on feeding s"Ooops, word censored!"s to chickens (illegal to feed kitchen s"Ooops, word censored!"s ). If he publicly promoted the feeding of kitchen s"Ooops, word censored!"s, he is not that well informed.

 

Was there any mention of foxes?

[MarkBevBen]

I haven't seen the article, but as an Eglu owner I wouldn't leave the droppings tray for a week - apart from I don't think it'd be good for the girls health and wellbeing, the smell would be pretty bad too I'd imagine.

 

I clean and empty the dropping tray daily/every two days and change their nest box bedding. The Eglu itself, bars and all get a thorough clean every week/10 days or before if necessary (we've sadly lost one of our girls this weekend ).

 

Water and food are changed/maintained daily and I give our girls treats in the afternoon of poultry corn, greens, raisins, cheerios, banana etc. I also rotate the Eglu onto a new patch of grass every few days.

 

I do think the Eglu is a very convenient way of keeping chickens, it doesn't take a lot of time to look after the girls and they're so rewarding too

[Trougher]

What exactly is meant by kitchen s"Ooops, word censored!"s? I find it rather a confusing term - I give my chickens trimmings from vegetables and fruit, and various bits and bobs lurking about in the kitchen that I think they will like, banana, raisins, oats etc. All of it is perfectly good quality - but does the Defra advice on kitchen s"Ooops, word censored!"s mean stuff that is cooked or only fit for the compost heap? (I haven't looked on the Defra website, if there is one, perhaps there is a better explanation somewhere?)

 

As a newbie, I am still learning what my three chooks need, but I am poo picking every day, cleaning out once a week, and giving fresh water and food every day. However, if you have a large water container, would it do any harm to leave for a couple of days? I used to keep gerbils, and I didn't freshen their water bottle every day - they lived to well over the average age for a gerbil! My chickens drink out of a bird bath in the garden when they are free ranging - unless it has rained that day the water certainly isn't fresh.

 

I don't really know the answers, but would be very interested in what everyone else has to say.

[enpekt]

Meat of any description wasn't mentioned in "s"Ooops, word censored!"s", but bread was, I believe the jury's still out on the bread option...

 

Foxes were mentioned when talking about free-ranging, in fairness, and the need to supervise was hinted at.

 

Having re-read the article, they supplemented it with Member's Trials and the subject of mites was discussed in a wooden shed situation.

[Redwing]

Apart from the s"Ooops, word censored!"s thing I dont see what is wrong??

 

Food and water could last three days easily..

 

Neither of my Eglus been fully scrubbed in at least a couple of months and I empty the poop tray as and when it needs it - sometimes - especially in the summer that isnt even weekly

 

My hens are healthy and win prizes in shows

 

I think sometimes we can be too fussy over hen care, as long as they are warm, not sitting in their own mess, not smelly and free from parasites I dont think there is a problem!

[Chucky Mama]

I only clean my Cube trays out once a week and I change the water then too. As mine don't stay in the run for longer than about 1/2 hour, that is poo picked or the cube moved then too. Mine have pellets topped up when they get low and apart from giving them a quick health check, the odd treat and quarterly worming, I don't do a huge amount more other than enjoy them.

 

Re what is illegal to feed:

From Defra

"Catering waste is defined as 'all waste food including used cooking oil originating in restaurants, catering facilities and kitchens, including central kitchens and household kitchens'."

[madchickenlady]

I only change water daily in hot weather, otherwise I leave it two days. My girls are in a wooden house/run on slabs, so I leave their feed out all the time too. I wouldn't go a week between poo picking the housing, though. I do mine every other day.

[The Dogmother]

I only clean my Cube trays out once a week and I change the water then too. As mine don't stay in the run for longer than about 1/2 hour, that is poo picked or the cube moved then too. Mine have pellets topped up when they get low and apart from giving them a quick health check, the odd treat and quarterly worming, I don't do a huge amount more other than enjoy them.

 

Re what is illegal to feed:

From Defra

"Catering waste is defined as 'all waste food including used cooking oil originating in restaurants, catering facilities and kitchens, including central kitchens and household kitchens'."

 

Me too. Except that the water is changed on alternate days.

 

Too many treats will lead to fat, non-laying hens. 'kitchen s"Ooops, word censored!"s' are covered by DEFRA regulations. Mine only get a handful of corn between them at the end of the day, and the odd vegetable green-stuff from a friend's allotment. I have a dozen bantam hens, two of which are more than 6 years old and still lay the odd egg

 

While we keep them as pets (mostly) I feel that we tend to attach too many human qualities to them; they are perfectly happy and healthy on the basics. I never feed mine bread as it usually causes crop problems, and contains worthless (to them) calories.

[beach chick]

oh gosh, I'm doing it all wrong then!!

 

I do feed kitchen s"Ooops, word censored!"s - this morning mine had last night's (chicken & mushroom) risotto. I am flubenvetting at the mo, and I like to put into something I KNOW will be eaten. so yesterday was scrambled eggs, day before was left over roasties/veg. will be followed by cold pasta and then catfood.

 

I certainly dont empty poo trays daily - once a week/10 days I do a proper clean, wash out cube and all the bits with the hose and fairy liquid, allow to dry, spray poultry shield, allow to dry and then reassemble with liberal sprinklings of diatom and red mite/louse powder.

 

as for water - I top up as and when and do a once a week wash as above. they seem to far prefer dirty water... certainly dont bring the food in, couldnt cope with the hassle quite honestly!

 

they seem healthy - they are all doing chicken-y things; I will mite spray them once I've got them into the WIR and things will be easier.

[The Dogmother]

Beach chick - you need to make sure that your chickens' diet comprises of roughly 95-98% layers feed of some sort. Any other food should be regarded as treats and given accordingly. Their digestive systems just aren't geared up to cope with our hooman type of food. It's rather like feeding your dog on just sponge cake - they love it and to a certain extent will look OK, but they won't thrive nor be as healthy.

 

A chap I was talking to the other week was moaning that his hens didn't lay many eggs - it turned out that he fed them mostly on mashed potato and spaghetti 'because they like it'. He switched them back to mainly layers pellets and when I saw him again this Saturday, he said that they are slimmer and back to laying like troopers.

 

A good quality chicken feed with the odd treat of corn, mealworms, wheat or green matter is all that they need. Basically (being jungle fowl) if they'd find it on the jungle floor, then it's a good chance that they should eat it.

[Lydia]

We were disappointed that a more balanced view than his rose-coloured vision could have been written.

 

To be honest I think the reporter's article was a fair reflection and not press misrepresentation at all. I too don't do empty the poo trays every day, normally it's weekly unless there is a need to do it more often. My cube is cleaned fortnightly and is only 'tidied up' weekly.

 

Water is topped up as required and only changed every 2-4 days. I also leave my food hoppers in the run overnight - now we've solved the small rat problem (they were coming through the Omlet run bars so we made the gaps smaller), we've not had a problem.

 

I've always fed them vegetable s"Ooops, word censored!"s. I am well aware of the DEFRA rules but I see it's my choice to do that. I don't sell eggs so they are only for our consumption and we'll take the risk.

 

My birds are happy and healthy. We keep ex-batts so lifespan and egg retirement age varies because of that, but many reach well over 2 years of freedom with us and most lay eggs reasonably frequently.

 

Of course everyone has a responsibility to maintain reasonable hygiene levels but hens are not, by nature, terrifically 'clean' birds in my opinion and don't need a pristine environment to stay healthy and happy.

[madchickenlady]

I do give mine occassional s"Ooops, word censored!"s, but never meat, dairy or processed foods. They love pasta/potatoes, but get them rarely. They do get quite a bit of fruit, as the children always give them apple cores . I give less treats in the summer when they're laying (I have pure breed bantams, so they shut up shop through the winter )

[MarkBevBen]

I think maybe I'm a bit over cautious, because of being a newbie and also because we've now lost two of our girls in a very short space of time.

 

It's good to hear about all your different routines though and I guess it's all down to everyone's different circumstances

[beach chick]

very fair point claret (sorry cant do the cut and paste thing) and in normal circs I do totally agree with you. however, when I have mixed flubenvet in with the pellets I just dont think it gets into everyone's system - they get picky, there's often powder left at the bottom of the feeders etc. hence the fact that I'm giving them 'treats' for a week, but I'm looking at it in the long term I hope. should also add that they still have their layers pellets as well, and the treats are not enough to totally replace the layers.

[The Dogmother]

If the powder is being left at the bottom of the feeder, then coat the pellets with a wee bit of cod liver oil - the powder will stick to that and everything will get eaten.

[beach chick]

cod liver oil from a typical health food shop? that sounds like a good idea.... I imagine the cod liver oil is quite good for them in itself.

[The Dogmother]

yes, or I buy the NAF horse one as it's really cheap. The vitamin D in it helps them to metabolise calcium amongst other benefits, so it's worth adding a tiny bit to the pellets every now and then, particularly if you need to dose them with a powder.

[PeckyBeak]

Quoting from Victoria Roberts,BVSC MRCVS Book Diseases of Free Range Poultry,

'High levels of ammonia from litter are toxic and stop the cilia from working effectively.Cilia are small hairs in the trachea of birds which are always moving a layer of mucus containing trapped particles, dust or pathogens, towards the oesophagus to be swallowed and deactivated by stomach acid. Ammonia and smoke are two substances which paralyse cilia, thus leaving the animal open to infection.

If you can smell Ammonia, it will be adversely affecting the birds'

Household disinfectants are either toxic to the birds or not proven to kill all the bacteria and viruses poultry are susceptible to. The most effective disinfectants are Virkon, and F10, developed specifically for poultry and their diseases.

Some may think I am overdoing it, but I poo pick the trays and the run every day, wash the bars every day and clean the whole cube and change the nest box hemcore every other day.

[Sue]

As far as I understand it anything which has ever "been" inside a kitchen either domestic or commercial is banned

 

If the government wants the waste of our foodstuffs reduced, then this ridiculous regulation needs looking at, and maybe its about time someone campaigned against such an idiotic waste of re-cycling of good resources.

 

Surely one of the good things about poultry is that they eat up otherwise useless items and convert them into good healthy food

 

I don't give my poultry anything other than bought in food, but that isnt because I want to its just that I have read up on our ridiculous UK (which are probably applied nowhere else in the EU) regulations

 

All the best

Sue

[C&T]

I take the the same approach as others:

 

Eglu gets cleaned weekly, one week with just the hosepipe, next week will get a scrub with some fairy liquid and hot water. Run is raked over weekly - Hemcore makes poo picking pretty irrelavent, as all the poo's just seem to disappear! Every 6 weeks, depending on conditions and weather etc, the run is raked out and new Hemcore is put down. Stalosan is used in the run every couple of weeks, and garden lime used on changeover day.

 

Poo tray emptied once a week in the summer, twice in the winter as they spend more time in there. Mid week empty is just that - empty, re-line with newspaper, and slotted back in.

 

Water is changed every 2-3 days, and food is topped up as necessary (recycling whats at the bottom into warm mash), and left in the run as (at the moment) we have no rodent issues.

 

Touch wood, not had any issues like lice/mites etc in the last 2 years - although regularly (couple of times a week) check birds to ensure no issues. No illnesses yet!

 

Any more than this I realistically could not achieve. We got chooks because they don't need daily clean outs etc - we would not be able to commit to that. The birds are happy, healthy and laying - and so are we (well, we're not laying, but you know what I mean!).

 

Oh, and ours get all sorts from the kitchen - left over veg or pasta (not cooked in salt). As others, we consume all our eggs, we do not sell them, and it is our choice. They love their treats - although they don't get as much as they would like!

[Redwing]

Quoting from Victoria Roberts,BVSC MRCVS Book Diseases of Free Range Poultry,

'High levels of ammonia from litter are toxic and stop the cilia from working effectively.Cilia are small hairs in the trachea of birds which are always moving a layer of mucus containing trapped particles, dust or pathogens, towards the oesophagus to be swallowed and deactivated by stomach acid. Ammonia and smoke are two substances which paralyse cilia, thus leaving the animal open to infection.

If you can smell Ammonia, it will be adversely affecting the birds'

Household disinfectants are either toxic to the birds or not proven to kill all the bacteria and viruses poultry are susceptible to. The most effective disinfectants are Virkon, and F10, developed specifically for poultry and their diseases.

Some may think I am overdoing it, but I poo pick the trays and the run every day, wash the bars every day and clean the whole cube and change the nest box hemcore every other day.

 

Agree that ammonia can cause a problem but there is a happy medium here. I cant smell ammonia in any of my coops/runs and I dont do anywhere near the level of cleaning that some people do. Like I said my birds win regularly at shows and are in tip top condition not struggling to breathe through an overdose of ammonia!

[docsquid]

I poo pick the and every day, and make sure all the poo is picked from the nest box if they've been in there too. I change the hemcore/bliss in the nestbox about once every 2 weeks. I give the houses a good clean over with Poultry Shield every 4 weeks or so, but I wipe off any mess in between times if they've poo'd on the roosting bars. I replace the water every 2-3 days, but actually they tend to only drink from our pond anyway if they are out FR. I clean out the feeders/drinkers once a week in Poultry Shield.

 

I do the obvious poo-picking in the WIR but otherwise leave it 6 to 12 weeks with deep Hemcore/Bliss on the floor, and then just clean the whole lot up and replace it. The deep bedding system seems to work well laid on concrete slabs in the WIR, and the poo just seems to vanish. When I do replace it, I put down Stalosan F onto the surface before laying another bale of bedding.

 

There is no smell, and the whole place is pretty clean and devoid of poo. I find bokashi bran in their feed also keeps down the poo bulk.

 

DH thinks I over-clean the chickens and should leave them much longer than I do. The girls are all healthy and happy and two big girls and one bantam are laying - the younger bantams not yet come into lay, and Gwennie is off lay and moulting at present.

[Plum]

Well we all do different then but guess we all use supplies differently as well which is why it works.

 

I change water every 2-3 days and wash water and feeders weekly. Empty dropping trays daily in summer and twice a week in winter. Poo pick the run daily and change it all 3 monthly or so. Top up feed as needed.

I don't spend a lot of time looking after them but I spend an awful lot of time with them.

 

I think you would be alarmed into cleaning more if you smelt ammonia. On the whole I find droppings dry up in the trays and runs. The problem seems to be where rain can get in and there is feed on the floor of the run.

 

A friend had her exbats on grass and the stench of ammonia from around the feeder and in the run was terrible. I was looking after them and s"Ooops, word censored!"ed everything up as well I could, put down stalosan and covered the feed area and put aubiose in that bit. Unfortunately one of the girls had chest problems and died. I put it down to the run management with the ammonia damaging the cilia at that time.

 

Her set up is great now and covered areas for water and food, no smell of ammonia or stale food.

[The Dogmother]

That's good to hear Plum

 

Damp litter is a carrier of bacteria/worm eggs and their feet/legs soon start to suffer if they are standing in dampness. If food is being flicked form the feeder (I use gravity feeders) then raise the feeder to the height of the hens' backs and they will flick it a lot less.

 

I empty poo trays weekly in the summer and twice a week in the winter when they are fuller. A quick 'bucket wash' weekly with some total mite kill in the water, roughly once a month I jet wash the lot, spray with TMK and then powder with Buz Busters. The run gets cleared every 6-8 weeks or when it needs it, with BioDri sprinkled in between and when I clear it.