dancing cloud Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) Last night my gorgeous Tozi was diagnosed as severely diabetic . He's due back at the vets first thing on Monday for repeat blood tests on an empty stomach, but yesterday his glucose level was so high it was nearly off the chart. At such times you don't process all of the information given and my initial reaction was very much "save him, save him", but in the cold light of day I'm not sure that's the kindest thing to do and I would very much appreciate any advice available. What I took on board was injections twice a day, limited diet (and no stealing), a stay at the vets to stabilise initially - not sure how long for, I think at least a week - and constant visits fortnightly or at best monthly thereafter for the rest of his life. Lots of vets visits, lots of blood tests. Factors that immediately spring to mind are:- Can I do this without harming him and our bond - injections twice a day forever, hurting him twice a day forever, constant vets visits Who would look after him if I'm not around -my usual pet sitter and neighbours wouldn't want to be doing injections while I'm on holiday or late back from work Tozi is absolutely terrified of going to the vets - he wets himself in the carrier before we've even got off the driveway and hisses in fear all the time he's in the car and at the vets He loves his home and me - he's never stayed away from home, watches me lock the door every night with him inside for the night, still follows me into the loo in case I flush myself away and was seriously upset the other day when the outside door blew shut and he couldn't get back in (he wouldn't go out again all night) Cost - I know we never want to make decisions on finance but, being very honest, on a rough round-up of cost of needles, insulin, specific food, monthly vets visits for blood tests, it seemed to be around £200-£250 a month. Not money that can be found easily and there is no insurance. All the above to be weighed against keeping my big gentle Tozi happy-cat alive and around. Any and all advice and experiences very much welcomed. Edited January 31, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sari Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 My favourite Aunties cat was diagnosed with diabetes, a few years ago. She tried with the testing and injection routine. They both found it distressing, as Sophie ( the cat) was not known for being placid...she would settle on your lap...and if you dared stroke her in the wrong place...claws and teeth were employed. Thea, my Aunt, tried it for about 6 weeks, but sadly she made the decision to have Sophie PTS, as it was not prolonging a quality filled life, and Soph was about 12. My Aunt had also just been diagnosed with chronic leukaemia, and the stress of trying to care for Sophie and come to terms with her diagnosis was making her very ill. I hope you can come to a decsion you feel comfortable with, it's awful when you have to decide, and not have that decision taken out of your hands. My personal feeling is that I think that animals shouldn't be messed about with, and that they should be allowed to have a dignified end. But this is my view, and I know others feel differently. I hope you can find the decision which is right for you x x Sarah x x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 My mum went through three years of hell with Rio. First with an over-active thyroid then diabetes that refused to be controlled. Rio was the perfect patient throughout, enduring the frequent vet visits and tests. But he was miserable and his condition could not be controlled at all. Mum spent thousands on him to no avail. I know that in the future should any of her other cats be diagnosed with diabetes she'd say goodbye sooner rather than later. On the otherhand though a friends cat was diabetic but eventually grew out of it and his treatment stopped. There is no definite answer. Do whatever feels right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 As a rule cats tolerate diabetes management well. Having said that I believe that no owner should feel duty bound to treat their pet for this condition. It requires time commitment and money. My first piece of advise is to get your vet to get you in touch with another owner who is successfully dealing with a diabetic cat, this should give you the confidence you need. The second piece of advise is to give it a go. You will never know until you try. It is essential that you take control, learn to do blood tests (little pricks on the edge of the ear producing a small drop of blood that can be read on a glucometer- a small relatively inexpensive machine) and thus avoid unnecessary trips to the vets. You should be able to do most of the testing at home and ultimately visit the vets only every 2 to 3 months. Although diet change is ideal many diabetic cats eat normal cat food. There is a steep learning curve but you will soon wonder what all the fuss was about. Problems you may encounter. 1) other underlying disease such as kidney insufficiency, urinary infections and liver disease. I imagine that this will already have been looked at. 2) hypoglycaemia - overdoing the insulin will lead to low blood sugar and fits. This is addressed by giving oral glucose but can be upsetting the first time. Being able to blood test allows you to pre-empt this. 3) Ketoacidosis. The longer treatment is delayed the more likely that toxic ketones will accumulate in the blood and make the cat's blood, making them sick. This makes the initial stabilisation much more complicated and expensive 4) (Not really a problem) As someone mentioned previously, a number of cats can stop being diabetic, especially if they were initially obese. This is always nice. 5) Cost. Most cats use 1 to 2 iu insulin twice a day. A 2.5ml bottle of caninsulin contains 100iu and costs about £10. Syringes will cost £20-£30 a month. If you can blood test yourself, a glucometer is about £20 and test strips about 50p each. Overall consumables should cost about £60 per month. To put things in perspective I know a lady who has motor neurone disease, is in a wheelchair and has to have her neck supported who injects and blood tests her cat (he does jump on her lap for his injections mind you!) Overall, don't be despondent see how it goes and don't make any rash decisions you cannot undo. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancing cloud Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thank you so much everyone for just the sort of advice I was looking for - I knew I could rely on Omletters. The main and actually only consideration is that Tozi must not suffer. Any of my other cats I would certainly give it a go, but they are much younger than he is (he's roughly early teens) and Tozi is so very petrified of the carrier/car/vets that constantly taking him there and back would really upset him every time. What would be even worse from his point of view would be the stay at the vets to stabilise him. He loves his home more than anything else in the world, even me and he's never been away from it. Even when put out for the day, he doesn't go out of the garden and every night we have our little ritual, where he watches me lock the door and put the key away before he goes off to bed, obviously happy to be in for the night. Taking him out of his beloved home and leaving him at the vets for a week by himself, without even me or any of the other cats for company, would definitely be suffering in Tozi-terms. My lovely vet rang me this afternoon to see if I had any questions after yesterday and he does think that it is severe diabetes and may not stabilise easily, if at all. Bless him, he also took time to say that I should not feel guilty whatever decision I reached, as Tozi was clearly loved and cared for. His advice was to proceed as planned on Monday and we could have a chat when the outcome of that blood test was known. Please keep your advice coming. I love Tozi too much to just let him go, but I love him far too much to let him suffer at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Tozi is so very petrified of the carrier/car/vets that constantly taking him there and back would really upset him every time. I really feel for you trying to make this decision. One of my two cats really hates the carrier/car/vets and the other doesn't like it but doesn't mind too much. The one that hates it leaves sweaty paw prints all over the examining table and has to be caught before bringing the pet carrier into the house or we'd never find him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 It's an awful decision to be in, and I'm so sorry to hear of it - Tozi sounds like a lovely companion. There's some good advice from Chucky Mama above, and it might be worth seeing if you can pursue any of that, e.g. talking to someone else who has a diabetic cat. On a practical basis though, its about quality of life for Tozi, and while you don't want cost to be the deciding factor it is something you have to take into account. If he is not a young cat, and if the vet believes it will be difficult to stabilise, then I think my feeling would be that perhaps it's time to make that very hard decision. It would be awful to embark on the treatment, put him through the trauma of a protracted stay and so on, and then decide not to go ahead. Sorry to say it - I hope you can get some more information about his condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sari Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I should have also said in my above post, that my parents are currently struggling to come to terms with the fact that their pointer/staffy rescue dog Mattie has just been diagnosed with arthritis,at the age of 6 and he's barely walking. He's on a high dose of Metacam which caused another of their dogs severe side effects. They really don't know what to do, as he seems really unhappy, as he's a real outdoorsy dog, and loves nothing better than streaking across the feilds with my Staff after rabbits etc So I really do feel for you, and hope you can come get some support x x x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramble Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hello Dancing Cloud. I'm sorry to hear about little Tozi. I can't help very much as I have no experience of diabetes in cats, but I did have a diabetic dog. We found that doing research (more on human diabetes than doggy diabetes) resulted in us knowing better how to manage her condition than the vet did. We found that cooking appropriate food for her was actually better and massively cheaper than buying the prescription diet stuff the vet insisted she needed. There was a company called Denes (Denes Natural Pet Care, they are still going and have a website) who were MASSIVELY helpful. They had a range of food that was suitable (and again much cheaper than the prescription stuff) and had very helpful staff who clearly knew lots about diabetes and how to manage it. Might be worth a squizz at their website/giving them a call before you make any decisions. All in all, I can see that managing a dog with diabetes and all the injections, food etc was going to be easier than a cat, but just thought I would share my experience with you. Jemma was quite elderly when diagnosed, but had more than two very good (and normal) years of quality life after her diagnosis and was almost 14 when she died of something totally unconnected to her diabetes. Good luck with whatever you decide, you clearly have only Tozi's best interests at heart. This is a link to Denes http://www.denes.co.uk/, but in case it doesn't work, just google them and you will find them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickendoodle Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 My DD had a very much loved cat who developed severe diabetes. She kept Millie going for 6 months or so with the injections and special food and eventually made the difficult decision to have her PTS. She was around 9 and was a very very sweet cat. It was quite hard to keep her stabalised and to be honest she was never the same cat - she gave the impression of being very depressed and just didn't want to do anything. In hindsight it would have been kinder to let her go earlier but my DD felt she had to give her the best chance. It was very difficult also always having to be around for the injections. She had 2 cats and stopping Millie eating the normal food was a nightmare. There are also regular blood tests which were distressing for a cat who hated going to the vets. So, you have to make an awful decision. I would now come down on the side of early euthanasia as it would have saved Millie her quite unhappy last few months. But every cat is different and will have a different reaction to the drugs etc. You just have to decide on the course that you feel is ultimately in the best interest of both your cat and your family and know that you made whatever decision for the right reasons. It is never easy x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancing cloud Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Thank you very much everyone for taking the time to reply and share your experiences. In consultation with the vet, Tozi has come back home and we are not going to treat him. Knowing Tozi, the combination of assessment and treatment would involve suffering for him and that is simply not acceptable, however the lovely vet was of the view that he did not need to be PTS immediately (and said clearly to me that if he thought he should have been, Tozi would not have left the surgery this morning). He's going to continue living his life for now and being as spoiled as any cat can be, and the time will come when he has to go back and then it will be a one-way trip. The vet assured me that I would know when that time had come and it may be very soon or it may be months away, but there was no need for Tozi to die today. I don't know if I cried more telling the vet I wasn't going to agree to treatment or telling Tozi he was going back home for breakfast! Thank you again for all your support and kind words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickendoodle Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Enjoy the time together. I am sure that is a good decision x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 That sounds a good decision in the circumstances. It's good you didn't have to have Tozi PTS right away. I hope you have a few good months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I too think you have made a good decision; enjoy your time with him. Your vet sounds very supportive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I think it's the right decision too *hugs* Enjoy Tozi and spoil him rotten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollyripkim Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Sounds like you have made then right decision for you all and most importantly Tozi, just enjoy the time you have left with him. Hugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Speckled Hen Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thank you very much everyone for taking the time to reply and share your experiences. In consultation with the vet, Tozi has come back home and we are not going to treat him. Thank you again for all your support and kind words. How is Tozi, dancing cloud? I really feel for you. I have a cat in a similar situation and I have to disagree that diabetic cats tolerate treatment well,and I'm a vet. The control of diabetes with insulin depends on the cat eating its food in a regular fashion. Too much food...no real problem. Miss a meal and you might find poor puss cold and hypoglycaemic and you will panic. Mine eats masses, drinks masses(and pees) and is sleeping the rest of her life comfortably away.I diagnosed her three years ago and she is still with us. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancing cloud Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thank you for your post and encouraging support OSH and at this point in time, Tozi's as happy as a bug in a rug He gets to stay in all day when the others are thrown out, so he can have food during the day as and when he wants it and he's become very smug in the morning, knowing he gets special treatment. He's eating more but drinking less and seems perfectly content. I can't tell if the weight loss has stopped but it's certainly less drastic and he seems just as (in)active as he's always been. He's never gone far from his beloved home and is happy to just have a wander round the garden at night when the hens have gone to bed. Although it was hard at the time, and I spent from Friday to Monday in tears cuddling my precious boy, I know it was the right decision and just accept that all time from now on is even more special. Here's the link to an earlier post with a lovely pic of him and his extra toes http://club.omlet.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=53837 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Speckled Hen Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 A polydactyl cat!!!! Wonderful. I once had a kitten who had two extra toes on all feet. She did look daft when she was tiny......all feet Best of luck and chin up. Don't hesitate to PM me if you get into trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
