Egghead68 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Oh - I'm so sorry. I hope your vet manages to do something for her. I always thought it was 7 days egg withdrawal with Baytril when the eggs are for your own consumption. Good luck and fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egghead68 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 This is just a thought but you know how battery hens have their beaks severely cropped (horrible I know)? Is there anyway your hen's beak could be cropped like that if it comes to it? Hope something can be sorted out. She was doing so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 Unfortunately the abscess is in the left corner of her mouth, and under AND inside the beak, so I don't think trimming it back would help matters - although I'll ask, as anything is worth a shot! The nice vet did trim her beak up a little last weekend to help her eat better (it was looking a bit like chopsticks before) so she should be able to advise. Here's hoping she gets well enough to come back to work in time! Louise is hopping around her little run this afternoon, looking quite energetic and scrounging grapes on every walk past. Here's hoping she can pull off another miracle this week. Strange conflicting advice about Baytril - the vet this morning was adamant that eggs should never, ever henceforth be eaten ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnie&Moose Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 So sorry to hear that the abscess is back - I hope things go well for Louise with the current round of antibiotics. I've been told by my vet that eggs from any hens that have ever been treated with Baytril should not be sold. However, the same vet suggested during the same consultation that, if the hen being treated were theirs, they would consume her eggs after 1 week's withdrawal, but would not feed them to a child within 28 days of completing the course, because the active component of the drug acts as a growth inhibitor. I may be wrong but I'm assuming that the first comment from the vet was what they were/felt legally obliged to say, and the second comment was information they thought I would find useful - this second option is what I've done on the few occasions when it has been relevant, but I don't sell eggs, though I do give them away sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I've always been told that it's 7 days withdrawal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
good_egg Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 On the Baytril point our vet told us that it wasn't approved for use on chickens so hadn't undergone the British food tests and therefore cannot be used on commercial hens or if eggs are to be sold etc. However, is common in pet hens and he said he had to officially tell us not to consume but 7 days after course finished should be ok. Hope Louise doing ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Me again! Another little Louise update ... so she was given Baytril for a week, and the course was due to finish on Friday with a check up at the vet on Saturday. She had been eating, drinking and laying fine all week (all those redundant little white eggs! ), although I could see that the abscess was still lurking at the corner of her mouth. I tried to get an appointment at the vet on Saturday but the only chap working was the guy who wanted to put her to sleep at the first viewing, so I decided to take matters into my own hands for a while ... I've kept her on the Baytril and Metacam, as had some of both left, which means she's now been on antibiotics for about 10 days. Don't know what the long term implications of this might be, but the good news is that this morning there's only the tiniest bit of yellow yuk left in her mouth, and she seems very lively. Unless someone on this forum advises differently, I plan to use up all the medication and then get her to a vet -I feel then that I'll have done all I possibly can for her, and it's just a case of seeing if a megablast of antibiotics can get rid of the abscess once and for all. If she pulls through, I plan to rehouse her in our field away from the other girls who have bullied her and created the abscess in the first place - I think she'll be much happier there. Your views as always very welcome - really appreciate all your feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 The key to sorting out an abscess is to keep the hole open for as long as possible. Pick any scabs off and saline bathe 2-3 time daily to encourage the discharge to come out. The antibiotics are not key to it all alone, getting the gunk out is most important. When the hole scabs over the discharge is kept beneath it and the abscess will reform. If you can, use a small syringe and wash the hole out with sterile saline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I've done saline washes with a syringe before dislaney; it really works Fingers crossed for her, you've done brilliantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Thanks folks - but the vet said not to dislodge the scab (I took her in last week prior to antibiotics to have the scab abraded and cleaned as it was huge, and they refused to do it) because the operation to remove the abscess removed quite a bit of her beak in the process, and they're worried that it's the scab that is actually holding her together. Tricky, isn't it? I appreciate what you're saying about the scab holding in the infection and helping it recur, so it is tempting to try to clean it up. But looking at the scab today, now that it's not welded to her 'lips' with the abscess, it does look as if it might be starting to come away naturally, as it did before straight after her operation. Perhaps I'll just try softening it a little this evening, to see if any comes away easily - but if not, leave well alone ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Nearly the weekend .... OK, so the nice vet is back at work, and she's approved the ongoing use of Baytril, which is a relief. Said to keep Louise on it till the weekend, then review. Meanwhile, I did the saline bathing of the scab as suggested, and at the first soaking it completely fell off, leaving - horror of horrors - the anticipated massive hole in and under the beak exposed. Good news - it looks as if there's not much of the abscess itself left, and what remains is drying out. Louise is also bright, eating like a horse rather than a chicken, and laying eggs. Bad news - it's such a big hole, and half of her beak on the left side is missing (the bit from the corner of her mouth where the abscess started to half way down), and the bottom of her jaw is also gone. Not sure if this will improve at all over time if the infection has gone - would healthy tissue grow back to make her beak more robust, or is this the best it's going to be? And if the latter, have I done the right thing in keeping her going so long when it might have been kinder to put her to sleep?? If she's going to be a special needs case for the rest of her life, that's fine because we can build a separate enclosure for her where she can't be bullied, but I'm worried .... Gulp. Not sure really what to do next. Will get vet to visit tomorrow morning to assess her, I think ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 can't really advise without seeing it but I doubt (in light of the amount of damage that you mention) that you can expect any regrowth of beak or skull. Probably not what you want to hear, but I'm afraid that I've cull her in this instance as it seems the kindest thing to do. From your description it sounds as if the amount of damage is too far reaching to recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thanks dogmother - will see how she looks tonight (once I've got used to seeing the hole, and how it's doing now it's got air to it) and then perhaps decide to put her to sleep tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweety Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I would ask your nice vet for a prognosis before making a decision. Will she be able to eat and drink normally, and live a normal chicken life with the beak as it is? Is she suffering in any way? If not, and her quality of life is good, I would give her a chance as she has come through such a lot already. If there is any doubt, then it is probably kinder to PTS. Good luck - you have done a wonderful job with her so far, and I'm sure you will make the right decision. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a happy outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 My guess is that - if we finally beat the infection - yes, she will be able to live a normal chicken life and eat and drink just fine, PROVIDED THAT she lives on her own, or with a companion who won't bully her and cause further injury, and that we provide a range of food that she can manage with a deformed beak, and a drinker like the Glug that she can 'dunk' into and fill her beak with completely, to allow for seepage out of the bottom. I'm very happy to provide 'special needs accommodation' for her, given everything she's been through, provided that it's the humane thing to do. Had to check myself this morning to make sure that I'm doing this for her, rather than for me, because I don't like to quit on a challenge, and I've become very attached her, and really admire her fighting spirit. Will speak to Charlotte the vet tomorrow morning and let you know the verdict. Thanks all once again for your tremendous support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 It's Sunday. Louise is still doing well - hurrah! Nice vet said to keep her on the Baytril till Weds, then she'll review her - meanwhile saline bathing as before. The hole doesn't look quite so horrific now - unless it's just because I'm getting used to it. A small, flat scab has formed over the raw bit where the huge scab fell off, and it bleeds a little when she catches it with food, but I'm hoping that when this one falls off, the underneath will be clear rather than infected. Eggs still coming, still very feisty and excited about everything, loving her convalescent diet - especially the grapes! Will continue to keep you posted ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweety Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I am so glad to hear that! I was worried when there was no news yesterday, and feared the worst. Keep it up Louise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Sorry Tweety - didn't mean to worry anyone by no news yesterday, but had a new rescue goat delivered and was spending quite a bit of time coaxing her to eat. I can see Louise bouncing up and down from my window as I'm typing this - that hen has tremendous fighting spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweety Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 No need to apologise - a rescue goat, how lovely! I am and very glad that Louise is so bouncy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedusA Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Just read this whole thread. My fingers are crossed for Louise. She sounds such a trooper. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egghead68 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Go Louise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dislaney Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Hi everyone - another successful week on the Louise front, but not without its twists and turns! Louise continued to do well until Tuesday, when she was pecked on the comb through the bars of her 'convalescent wing' off the main run by one of our other hens. Almost immediately she went into a shocked state, getting very pale and depressed, so I was quite worried about her. The next day the abscess started to smell again, with the scab having got very large once more. The vet couldn't come out that day so I arranged for her to visit on Thursday, keeping my fingers crossed that Louise could pull off another phoenix-like transformation overnight. On the Wednesday evening, I bathed her beak and managed to pull away the large scab, and to my delight could see very little infection underneath, and lots of nice clean skin. So by the time the vet arrived on Thursday, it was a whole different scenario - she was very pleased with Louise, and doesn't see why she now can't live an almost normal life, albeit in special needs accommodation where she can't be bullied as this seems to be the trigger for a downward spiral and ill health. Louise is still on the Baytril at the moment, with some Hibiscrub to be applied once I work out how to dilute it properly (any advice very welcome!!) but meanwhile saline seems to be doing a good job. The issue for us now is - while obviously trying to get her damaged beak into as good a state as it can be - what to do about segregating our flock and redeploying housing. I think we've got two options: 1. Create a completely separate pen for Louise (her Eglu Classic + run + new walk in run from Eglu that I see is on offer!) and keep her in the garden, in sight of the others with a possible companion to be added once her wound is properly healed. 2. Put the other hens x 6 into our 5 acre field in the 2 acre donkey paddock (buy a new hen house, run and netting so they can free range) and move Louise plus companion into the main run in our garden, where we can keep an eye on her and medicate her easily if required. Option 1 will be cheaper - option 2 is a bit more involved as well as expensive, and I'm apprehensive about free ranging my lovely girls when I can't keep an eye on them completely. Plus not sure how our outer perimeter stock fencing will work with them - presume they could pop through the larger holes at mid height if they wanted to?? But option 2 is the more exciting idea ... Sorry for the very long post. Obviously over the moon about Louise's progress and now keen to sort out the next stage of henkeeping - all thoughts and advice very welcome. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Seems to be one step forward and half a step back at the moment, doesn't it? The usual recommended ratio fro diluting Hibiscrub is 1:20 although I'm never scientific about it and just add some until the water is pink. Hypercal ointment is good for healing inflamed wounds, as is Manuka honey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egghead68 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Glad she's doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweety Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 So glad that Louise is still improving, albeit with a little set-back. It does sound hopeful for her - fingers crossed as I write that - and it is great that your vet is so optimistic. As for how to proceed, I would probably go with option 1. It sounds less disruptive for all your girls, and it would be lovely to think that Louise might be able to have a friend in with her once she is 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
