Chicken Licken Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I have to keep a 'barrow width' on the path that runs between our terraced houses for access to the allotments and am allowed to get water from the shared standpipes in the neighbouring gardens (I wonder if the neighbours realised this when they had their water meters fitted!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Would love to see a picture of the allotments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabergé Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Mine has a covenant dating from 1922 saying the land cannot be used for 'entertaining beanfeasters' What on earth does that mean? Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Mine has a covenant dating from 1922 saying the land cannot be used for 'entertaining beanfeasters' What on earth does that mean? Gloria visions of hoards tucking into beans on toast! Think a beanfeast is an annual party given by an employer for employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozkate Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Given your proximity to London I suspect The term 'beanfeasters' refers to a 19th century practice of leaving central london for a day out in the country in a largish group with the objective of enjoying oneself. I think it often ended in some public house or other with general curousing, maybe a bit of roistering for good measure. I guess the convenant was put in place to maintain a degree of serenity about the place. The etymology intrigues - why beanfeasters? I wonder whether they originally came during the bean harvest to sample local food 'at source' - [and then get mullered in the local boozer]. I am to investigate further. Loz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozkate Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Ah Ha! & Thanks for the clue Poet.... A beanfeast was/is a general term now used to represent any party where there is plentiful food and drink. Its origins lay in the practice [as Poet points out] of employers throwing parties for their employees. Carry On At Your Convenience! The original parties included a meal of beans and bacon. Hence a beanfeast. Take the beanfeast on the road and you have the 19th century version of a works day out or more generally a 'lads' day out! I still beleive its this version of beanfeast that the covenant excludes since were it the more general term it would discount any party where there is plenitful food and drink! Alarming thought and in my experience unpoliceable in Wokingham. That said there may well have been a religious/idealist influence on the covenants if the money to fund the building of the properties had that kind of origin. I can feel a beanfeast coming on this weekend Loz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabergé Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 That said there may well have been a religious/idealist influence on the covenants if the money to fund the building of the properties had that kind of origin. I can feel a beanfeast coming on this weekend Loz That would make sense as most of the land in the area was once owned by John Walter (Founder of The Times) who I believe was a Methodist. Totally unenforceable now I should think! Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 This makes hillarious and puzzling reading... No making bricks... whatever else... I'm a bit surprised as, before we got our chooks, we checked our deeds, and to be honest they say absolutely nothing... it has hardly more than the address of the house on it, and two or three lines of blaa-blaa about freehold or what not... Am I missing something? does everyone else have pages of 'no bricks', 'no beanfeast', 'no sneezing' restrictions on their deeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 'Deeds' is a misleading term. These days most land is registered with the Land Registry, and you don't get any actual deeds at all. All the Register will show is the address, registered number, names of owners and any mortgages, and it should include any restrictions or covenants on the property. Before land was registered, the way to pass title was to produce all the previous papers showing transfer of ownership, starting with the original conveyance when the house was built. This is usually the one which has any restrictions and prohibitions on. These original 'deeds' used to be kept by the mortgage lender, but a few years ago they stopped keeping these (storage costs). If you are lucky, the person you buy from may have these original papers and pass them on, but often they are lost or mislaid or are lingering in a solicitor's file somewhere. It's a real shame because as well as being a fantastic piece of social history, they often contain details which for one reason or another have not been recorded at the Land Registry. Your 'deeds' have probably been lost over the years, Ziggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 ours have hm land registrey on the front, it's quite a comprehensive A4 sized file. Our mortgage lender used to hold them, I think they show boundaries and all kinds of things. Our bank sent them to us recently saying they no longer hold deeds for clients but we never asked them to in the first place, I think it was a requirement of the mortgage - red tape, pah!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 .... These original 'deeds' used to be kept by the mortgage lender, but a few years ago they stopped keeping these (storage costs). aha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 That's when I got mine back Olly - my deeds show the history of our road, from the purchase of the land, through the building of the houses (1897)and right through all the owners of my house. All responsibilites and stuff are noted carefully. It makes very interesting reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craven fowl Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 These original 'deeds' used to be kept by the mortgage lender, but a few years ago they stopped keeping these (storage costs). I work for a mortgage lender and have regular dealings with HM Land Registry. If a mortgage completed after 13 October 2003, mortgage lenders do not keep "Deeds", as there aren't any to keep. HM Land Registry got sick of solicitors, borrowers, mortgage lenders, etc loosing the originals, so they stopped issuing them. All they issue now is a Title Information Document, usually a couple of sides of A4, that is easy to replace if lost. Any old "Deeds" still in existence are usually released to the current registered proprietors. HM Land Registry made copies of some covenants, boundaries, etc, if the files came in for a re-mortgage or a purchase. So if you need copies of these, they might have copies. But yes, less items to store does mean a saving with regards to storage costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Our deeds are all hand written and show different names for some of the side roads around the property(they were not built at the time). The strange thing is that one of the roads was originally going to be called 'Baden Road' and my son is called Baden. How strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozkate Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 That said there may well have been a religious/idealist influence on the covenants if the money to fund the building of the properties had that kind of origin. I can feel a beanfeast coming on this weekend Loz That would make sense as most of the land in the area was once owned by John Walter (Founder of The Times) who I believe was a Methodist. Totally unenforceable now I should think! Gloria Why not get a bunch of random city types to come down for beans on toast and test the covenant. I bet you some devious neighbour would have a go if you had a 7 series BMW parked too close to their Mondeo! Loz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I still find this odd... so this deeds thing is an old fashioned document, now replaced by something simpler, easier to replace, and causing less storage issue... But if old documents do exist, and they list that you can't have chickens, or make bricks, or walk around your property in pink and red stripey wellingtons (ok, I made that last one up), then neighbours can decide to give you hell over it... I am sorry but I don't get it... I realise there is kind of history here and legal stuff and what not... but isn't this all a bit illogical? Many of those documents are lost, but if they are not and decree something that might have been relevant back in the time Shakespeare was still wearing nappies, then it can become crucial to a whole neighbourhood if someone wishes to cause trouble? Also I've read on here that sollicitors can, for a fee, remove clauses from the deeds... so again, what is the point of neighbours being able to take legal action and complain about anything? It seems to me that if deeds are such an irrelevant and unreliable things, people shouldn't be allowed to complain and give trouble for no other reason than 'deeds say that'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I think the older clauses in deeds might not be enforceable but the newer estates etc which want uniformity of look etc are a different matter and the builders will be down on you like a ton of bricks (no pun intended) if you do you do chose to ignore things....if your neighbours don't beat them to it.. However.....how many neighbours are really going to risk losing a case in court? Especially if you go after them for your costs if you win. Best to get legal advice in any tricky situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 In most cases, these restrictions - like no brick-making, not selling alcohol - are recorded on the register and that's how the neighbours know (because they apply to their own property as well). They are usually imposed on a property when it's first sold for what seemed like valid reasons at the time - to make sure it remained a residential area and didn't become used for trade, for example. Sometimes the person with the benefit of the covenant - the owner who was selling off part of his land for a housing estate, say- no longer exists, because the rest of the land has been sold and split up. In that case, you can usually get a declaration that it doesn't apply any more. In other cases, you can get the other person to agree to lift the restriction. If it's a more modern housing estate though, there is more likelihood that everyone knows about the restriction, and that it could be enforced. I still think it is unlikely in most cases - the person wanting to enforce it would have to spend quite a bit of money pursuing legal proceedings. Has anyone on here had experience of a neighbour actually doing this? I know in a few cases, people have backed down under pressure and rehomed their hens because of threats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 and the builders will be down on you like a ton of bricks (no pun intended) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Man Banned Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 We have all the deeds relating to this house, including the estate plan when the house was built, and restrictions for 7 years against caravans, no advertising boards except For Sale boards and not within 12 months of completion of the estate - thankfully this estate had just turned 10 years old when we bought it but we were most concerned with the caravan clause. So now I have two on the drive I also can't work on my car on the driveway but can in my own garage, and not allowed to hang any clothes from my windows, I must use a rotary drier in the allocated space in the garden. There's no restrictions on hens or livestock tho - checked that after we got the laydees of course The commercial vehicle clause applies on this estate unless delivering but some new neighbours who have started renting opposite have a Watts Tyre Service LDV diesel van. And he does out of hours callouts . You can only enforce the restrictions on the deeds by approaching a solicitor but who would face the risk and costs involved, hopefully it's just a case that you can chat to your neighbours about things to resolve issues. I do love the clause about not making bricks tho, how very odd A xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabergé Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Why not get a bunch of random city types to come down for beans on toast and test the covenant. I bet you some devious neighbour would have a go if you had a 7 series BMW parked too close to their Mondeo! Loz Sounds good to me! Who's up for a beanfeast at my place? Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 We have this problem with deeds cropping up almost weekly if not more often! People obviously are not taking the time to read past posts or perform a quick search, so could someone please put together a little Q and A on house deeds for the sake of my sanity and place it as a sticky on the top of this thread? I really don't want to sound as though this is coming across as a negative, I am hoping that my advice will be used to constructively improve the forum experience for all users (both new and old)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 We have this problem with deeds cropping up almost weekly if not more often! People obviously are not taking the time to read past posts or perform a quick search, so could someone please put together a little Q and A on house deeds for the sake of my sanity and place it as a sticky on the top of this thread? I really don't want to sound as though this is coming across as a negative, I am hoping that my advice will be used to constructively improve the forum experience for all users (both new and old)... The specific question of whether a chicken can be classed as a "recognised domestic pet" has not come up before as far as I am aware. You are free to skip by posts that don't interest you, for the sake of your sanity that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 The specific question of whether a chicken can be classed as a "recognised domestic pet" has not come up before as far as I am aware. You are free to skip by posts that don't interest you, for the sake of your sanity that is The subject has definately been brought up severel times before. It does not bother me personally, but I thought it would save time for everyone in the future if the information was placed as a sticky... I always read through all the posts, as someone has taken the time to write them. And also just in case I can offer any useful help or advice where others may not be able to, that is the whole point of a forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabergé Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I really don't think it would be appropriate to have a sticky on this subject as virtually all Legal documents are open to seemingly infinite variations in interpretation. If anyone really did have serious issues with their own Deeds, they would need to seek Legal advice that was specific to them & not rely on general opinion given here. Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
