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[chocchick]

What do you make of this? I emailed a career's advisor as don't know if they are allowed to recruit based on this information. Surely saying I am willing to relocate is enough, although it is in Sheffield where I live unless they have other offices I don't know about. I've not lived with my parents for 9 years, and they are divorced.

 

 

RE: PATENT AND TRADE MARK REPRESENTATIVE

>

> I have received your CV in response to the Graduate Yorkshire

> advertisement.

>

> Please could you answer a couple of preliminary questions so as to

> enable comparison with other candidates.

>

> 1. Where do your parents live?

> 2. What is your domestic situation, are you married, single, have a

> partner?

> 3. Are you a homeowner or renting?

> 4. What other jobs are you looking for, and in what locations?

> 5. What is the notice period in your current job?

> 6. What is your current salary?

>

> We are interviewing now, and expect to be drawing a short list in the

> next couple of weeks.

>

> Kind Regards

Edited May 1, 2008 by Guest

[Snowy]

I don't know for definite but I'd say most of those questions are totally irrelevant, if not downright discriminatory!

[Olly]

 

I'm no expert, but I'd have thought Questions 1, 2 and 3 are totally unacceptable - what does that have to do with you fitness to do the job?

 

I'm sure someone on here must work in HR or have some more knowledge of these issues.

[Guest]

I'd agree. I'm appalled that an employer would put that in writing!

[chickenanne]

That looks really bad!

The only thing I can think of is that they need someone who will be prepared to travel - or perhaps they are planning to relocate the offices? Hence the renting question, and also marital status. Is it some kind of job where living locally/ having grown up locally is relevant? e.g. tourist information /advice for people moving to the area? Some jobs you can get away with selecting,say, only female candidates, I wonder if they have a similar thing for whatever they are advertising?

Notice period and current salary are fairly standard questions. But the rest look like they should have a back-story or else they're discrimanatory.

I wonder if you could contact the recruiter directly and politely ask /say you're confused as to why they are asking? They're unlikely to take offence as am sure they aren't looking for someone who is a fool or a doormat, nor a trouble-maker.

[chocchick]

job advert here

It would involve a serious amount of study, it takes 5-6 years to qualify whilst working and learning on the job. They would presumably pay to train and want it to be a good investment. I could expect they would want a commitment, but then they could ask directly. It's the first 3 questions I think are dodgey as sound like they are selecting for interview based on home circumstances.

It is the sort of job where you would write legal patents for technical products in say pharmaceuticals, mechnical engineering, IT. Not sure how that would need local knowledge.

[Tina C]

The last three seem reasonable questions - but are more usually asked at interview stage.

 

The first three seem totally irrelevant and appear to have sexist or even racist overtones to me. They definitely seem to want to narrow down the field prior to interview.

 

Applications will only be accepted from candidates who are authorised to work for any UK employer

 

It seems to be that someone with little experience is dealing with the recruitment process?

 

I notice its maternity cover which means there is no guarantee of a permanent position but it would probably be good experience for you. And as its maternity cover, if you got it, you could leave without 'blotting' your CV if it turned out to be the wrong job for you.

 

Good luck if you decide to go for it. I have to say, I would be tempted to not even answer the first three questions but I guess they would bin the application if you did that.

[Egluntyne]

It seems very odd asking an adult applicant for details of their parents circumstances Choccy.

 

 

I wouldn't have thought any of the questions, with the possible exception of no 5 were relevant.

 

How odd.

[ajm200]

The first 3 are definately odd and I would suspect that they shouldn't be asking them.

 

The note about only wanting people authorised to work in the uk is to prevent having to pay for or sponser visa applications from people outside of the UK.. it can take ages to sort out a visa.. not ideal for a short-term vacancy

[chocchick]

The visa bit is very common again, no problems there.

5 and 6 are quite common questions.

4 might be testing commitment to one career path?

1-3 are bizarre.

They want an Msc/PhD so they could be at the very youngest 21-22 MSc or 23-24 even presuming going to university at 17 or 3 year PhD.

 

If it is maternity leave maybe they are trying to avoid someone is likely to have maternity leave again, the degrees mentioned are possibly more male dominated? No evidence for this though.

It could be about comitment to staying in the area, or commitment to career over family. Maybe an off the wall test on how to deal with difficult queries?!

 

Next question-what do I do? Ask why they what relevence the questions have to the job, politely? Possibly drop my application as they might be a poor employer- how might they treat their employees if this is just an application?

[Guest]

hmmm, they want you to answer a couple of questions so I'd pick the 2 you want to answer and ignore the others. You're only following instructions!

[Louise]

Personally since I would have little issue with them knowing the answers I would answer them but I would put a covering letter in querying the need for the information contained in 1, 2 and 3

 

It is a big problem now with employers not wishing to employ women of child bearing age but they are not allowed to actually ask questions about your future plans and this as a childless female in that age group annoys me because I would rather they asked than passed me over just in case so I always put things like that in my applications so they don't have to ask I always include somewhere that I have no dependants to care for

 

Its dog eat dog out there so sometimes right and wrong have to go onto a back burner if you want the job

 

Looking at the questions and the advert I think they are trying to avoid someone who is likely to have children any time soon and they may need to fill some sort of quota for people from a certain background be it male, female or ethnic

[chocchick]

I've taken advice from my careers service and was referred to ACAS. They don't think 2 can be relevent to the position, but they can't give further advice without knowing why they are asking. I emailed the employer asking how the questions are relevent to selection for interview.

My gut is, if they don't have a valid reason at an initial recruitment stage then I don't want to work for them. They stressed me out just with one email!

[MedusA]

hmmm, they want you to answer a couple of questions so I'd pick the 2 you want to answer and ignore the others. You're only following instructions!

 

Good point, Poet.

 

I don't think any of the questions are relevant at this stage of an application. Some of them are not relevant at any stage!

[chocchick]

I've got to the bottom of it. It turns out the employer has been let down previously by an employee and spent £14k on agency fees and 6 months recruiting only for them to leave to be with family abroad after 2-3 months. They only get a return on training costs after 2 years. Someone else left to be with their partner in the south. They don't want someone who is going to leave and preferably want someone with roots in Sheffield e.g. a mortgage. The question about other jobs is about whether I would want to stay in Sheffield.

Luckily I WANT a stable job and to live as close to Sheffield as possible as OH lives here and has a business here.

[One Man Banned]

At least they came back to you with some answers.

 

Sadly they are not recruiting in a very sensible way, and as such could unfairly discriminate candidates, and that's opening up a whole can of worms for them should someone challenge them with legal action.

 

From the, very good, management training I got from Hertz (two days on just employment and discrimination stuff from an external company) I'd say that the first 4 questions are completely irrelevant and could cause an applicant to feel uncomfortable in answering - they have no need to know such information as it is not related at all to the requirements - what if there were very traumatic events in a family? A candidate might be gay and feel uncomfortable answering question 2 for fear of sexual orientation discrimination - Mortgages are movable as are tenancies so again, where you live has no bearing on the job requirements. As for asking about other jobs that is private information as it may be for a competitor, for a less paid job than theirs (if they looked into it they could notice that you've applied for a job with a lower salary and may then offer you less in the job you're applying for)

 

The interview should be the tool they use to determine if you are suitable for a vacancy - thinning out the application because you may be a woman of childbearing age is certainly discrimination.

 

Q5 and 6 are fine - it's relevant to how long they can take to get someone employed and asking directly what your salary is, they can check this via an employment reference)

 

It's a minefield with the regulation regarding a job advert - you can't ask for a mature person for instance, as this phrase generally is used to refer to older people, so it would discriminate against younger people.

 

Good luck if you go for it Choccy!

 

A

xx

[Olly]

It's unfortunate that they've been let down before, but that's part of the problem with being an employer - it doesn't entitle them to ask irrelevant and possibly discriminatory questions. It still doesn't explain why they'd want to know what your parents did for a job!

 

Asking these sort of questions before selecting for interview could lay them open to claims of discrimination.

 

Still - I hope you stand a good chance for this job, if you haven't been put off totally!

[chocchick]

It still doesn't explain why they'd want to know what your parents did for a job!

Where they live...

 

It is intreging. I sympathise with where they are going with the questions, but it sounded discriminatory. It is a legal based pofession too (patent law) so I'm surprised.

I was thinking you could be married and about to be divorced, married or about to have kids, or single with no stability in a place, or single with lots of time to commit. You might not be in contact with your parents, or they might be dead-how would they feel if they found that out:!:

Mortgage could be related to income e.g. if you are a job seeker you may not be able to get a mortgage even if you want one! I was thinking if I said I was looking at other job types they would see that as not being commited to that profession.

 

Maybe if I get an interview I could come up with my own tricky questions?!

[Egluntyne]

I didn't notice that you had posted a link to the job advert.

 

There is a "report this job" button.....shall we all do just that?

[AnnieP]

erm.... not if Choccy wants it! We don't want it to disappear!

[Egluntyne]

True I suppose.

 

It does seem odd that a firm of lawyers would pose what on the face of it seem to be discriminatory questions....you would expect them to get a job advert right.

[AnnieP]

Personally, I think the questions are outrageous, and seriously doubt that I would want to work for such an unprofessional company, but they could have been written by somebody with very little experience and slipped through the net and of course, it could turn out to be a terrific job.

One thing is for certain though: If you get stroppy over the questions, they're not going to offer you the job...

[chickenanne]

Their reasons for asking the questions are laughable! You can't gaurantee someone will stay in a position, recruiting and training are just part of the cost of running any business, particularly anything technical. As inconvenient and expensive as people leaving are, it doesn't mean that they have any right to ask questions like that. It's amatuerish, lacks any degree of common sense and judgement, and they clearly have no ability at all to empathise with their candidates.

However.... it might be a great job. I would be careful not to come across as a troublemaker, but you could put in your covering letter that you were uncomfortable about the questions but understand their need to assess commitment, then state your OH business is in Sheffield and you've made your life there, so you won't want to leave the area,

[Olly]

It does seem odd that a firm of lawyers would pose what on the face of it seem to be discriminatory questions....you would expect them to get a job advert right.

 

If only! Lengthy experience tells me that most law firms are rubbish at employment and HR matters, unless of course they happen to be employment law specialists (and even then they get it wrong sometimes).

[Leicester_H]

I work at Leicester University and had to go on thier training course BEFORE I could be part of any recruitment panels (so we don't get sued by unsucessful candidates!!)

 

I belive it is illegal to ask some of these questions. Also, it is illegal to make assumptions about a candidates intentions (eg. they may not stay for long)

 

You could take them up on these questions or may be better not waste your time and simply steer clear.

 

H