gazpachodragon Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 (edited) I'm doing a college course in counselling, starting in October, and I've just found out that a woman from my previous course will also be going on to do the next level. The problem is, this woman is totally unsuitable to train as a counsellor, and every week she would derail the class with stories of when she was in counselling or by giving opinions (usually completely unsuitable, irrelevant, and often downright offensive), after turning up late, usually by at least half an hour. She never handed in any work (she brought everything we'd ever been given to the last class, and let the teacher sort through it to s"Ooops, word censored!"e a pass), although the rest of us slogged our guts out, and when she was supposed to give us feedback/work on group projects she just never brought in the paperwork, hampering the rest of us. She was also just really, really bad at learning the most basic of skills, and still thought at the end of the course that counselling was 'telling people what to do' - and when she told them, it was usually the wrong thing. Now I really can't cope with working with this woman in my group for the next year, as I can already see hours slipping away as she regales us with tales of how her grandson's teacher hates him because 'all teachers are thick and this one doesn't like that my grandson is better than she is', and not receiving the feedback we have to have as part of the course. However, I'm a bit wary of approaching my tutor about switching days, as it sort of makes out like I can't work with difficult people, and as that will be part of the job when I'm trained, it reflects badly on me. Then I feel annoyed that I'm being put in this position when I worked my socks off to get a place on this course, when obviously I could have just sauntered in. Plus I'm really annoyed that because of the structure of the course (exams are done in class with support, you don't get a fail, you get development points etc.) and the fact that the tutor seems to have a soft spot for her, it is actually possible that she may pass this course as well and be able to go on to the diploma and actually qualify as a counsellor. So should I brace the issue with my tutor, ask to move days and lie about the reason, or sit tight and hope she drops out? i called my tutor and spoke to her about it - she was already aware that it might cause problems and said someone else had complained already, but that she wasn't responsible for the place. but she's assured me that i won't be on the same course as her (she's doing it at night, and me in the day), and that we won't be working together on the workshop days. so although i'm still annoyed she got through and that she'll disrupt others, but relieved it won't affect me directly. Edited July 29, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couperwife Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 could you not get a meeting with the course tutor and put forward your concerns? it seems like this woman is totally unsuitable and maybe the tutors havent realised this. I dont think that you should change your days, but put talk to the tutors about her total lack of co-operation with other students, suggest that they have a meeting with her and see what happens. hope this was helpful. good luck in your course cathy x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazpachodragon Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 thanks cathy. unfortunately the tutor knows what she is like, and had previously said she wouldn't be allowed to progress, which makes me think they're trying to get their numbers up or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clur Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 It's still worthwhile having a meeting with your tutor. Stick to facts and outline your concerns in a professional way, and put the ball in their court -- what will they do to support you and your group if this lady is as disruptive as she has been in the past. You don't know whether this woman has been accepted back onto the course under the condition of pulling her socks up? Hope so as she sounds like a right pain! I don't think anything will reflect badly on you if you speak to the tutor about this and then subsequently change your day if your tutor can't or won't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yolky Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 I have to say that if I had put up with someone like that for as long as you have I would have to say something to her....for example if she goes off on a tangent I would ask her if her story is necessary as to what you are actually learning. I would also speak with your tutor. It is not fair that someones lack of skills will affect a whole classes learning. The tutor, if doing their job properly, should have a meeting with this woman and explain to her the issues. Also if your tutor is doing a proper job they should also be able to inturupt this woman when she is going off on one of her tangents to bring the lesson back to the plan, if he/she did this every time she tried to tell one of her stupid stories eventually she would shut up (well you would hope) Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clootie Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Hmmm, I'm just wondering how you're fellow students felt about her and also, what did everyone do when she was taking centre stage with her grandson stories. Sounds to me like she lacks confidence and the louder she is the more she feels she's contributing and she feels she is coming across as interesting and "experienced" in the field you are all studying. You are perfectly within your rights to talk to your tutor and it by no means suggests that you have a problem working with difficult people. You are there to learn and she seems to be hampering that - so, for what it's worth, if it was me, I would take a brave pill, have a word with your tutor and if he/she won't speak to her, I'd have to (GULP!) It could even be done during a class debate - be patient and choose your time wisely - you'd probably earn yourself a standing ovation from your fellow students! It would be such a shame to change your days because of one person. Good luck missus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhapsody Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 What would I do? Honestly? I wouldnt do the course, if a student like that can be allowed onto the next level with the tutors fully aware of how unsuitable she is, I would question its credibility and value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazpachodragon Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 thanks everyone. on my previous course, everyone would complain about her in breaks and such, but "Ooops, word censored!"ody wanted to say anything directly to her because a) we were worried that it would come across as not being able to deal with difficult people, and b) she's a bit mental, so saying something she'd construe as an insult could totally tip her over the edge. the teacher was aware of how we felt and did try and steer her/shut her up, but it was so constant that even when she was stopped, she'd start again two minutes later. the problem also was that she thought she was really good at it, so no matter what was said, it seemed like it just ran straight off her. i think you're all right though and i really do need to talk to my tutor. after all, if we're on a course together and she really gets to me, it would annoy me that i could have said something and didn't. and it's not that i can't work with her, but she really is going to hamper everyone's learning, unless she's drastically changed in the last month. *gulp* guess i need to make an appointment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazpachodragon Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 What would I do? Honestly? I wouldnt do the course, if a student like that can be allowed onto the next level with the tutors fully aware of how unsuitable she is, I would question its credibility and value. unfortunately, to do what i want to do, i need this qualification. and this is the only place i can get to that offers it. personally i'd love to not go with this particular college because even before all this came up, i'd been having problems with communications and getting work back, but needs must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clootie Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 She really should be asked to leave the course if this has been going on as long as you say it has. The key is open and honest communication. Hat's off to you for sticking with it but it will all be worthwhile in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Oh dear, you aren't doing it at Nottingham Trent are you by any chance? Sadly any counselling course has it's contingent of 'difficult' people who undertake training as a counsellor in order to resolve their own issues. The trouble is, by ignoring it you are condoning her behaviour and showing that you cannot deal with difficult people. Taking action will actually demonstrate that you can deal with difficult people! Definitely talk to your tutor and explain that if they do not control things, you will have to talk to this woman yourself. They might be making allowances for her if she has particular needs, but they are ignoring the rest of the group who no doubt have all paid good money to receive an education that they aren't getting. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutmeg Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 I did a double take when I read your post as I have just qualified as a counsellor after four years of training (two on the Diploma) and we had one or two students who fitted your description. My only advice to you is, as others have said and raise your concerns with your tutors, which I had to in the end. As you are aware, as a Counsellor, you have to be able to deal with all different personalities and as part of the training and self development, we had to learn how to deal with 'difficult' students. It is challenging to tell someone in front of the whole class that you find their behaviour disruptive and I did it twice and to my surprise, the two students actually listened and responded and over time, we had a healthy working respect for each other. My irritation at their behaviour changed to understanding of why they needed to be the centre of attention. Good luck with your studies and I hope you find a way of working things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Good luck - this could be an opportunity to meet with the tutors and demonstrate your negotiating skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazpachodragon Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 snowy, no it's not nottingham. obviously more than one college is rubbish! i very nearly said something on the last course, but was worried about upsetting the group dynamic. however, what you've all said is very true - at some point i'll have to be able to tell someone they're upsetting the balance. otherwise i wouldn't be a very good counsellor (and, especially for nutmeg, i wouldn't be very congruent!) i shall call my tutor on tuesday and arrange an appointment, and tell them pretty much what i've said here. i know a couple of other students that will most likely be happy to say they're worried too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 How bizarre, and worrying that this woman presumably will be let loose on a vulnerable public when she finishes her training. Maybe some-one else on the course will be able to ask her to stop de-railing the lessons. With a bit of luck she will find this further course too difficult and will give up. I can imagine that the tutors will find it difficult to deal with adults re uncompleted tasks as you would with youngsters. They can't exactly impose sanctions such as detention, lines or 100 press ups. I am surprised that the tutor didn't shut her up when she was bringing up irrelevant matters during the session. Great advice from Nutmeg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bokbokbok Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I think you should stop thinking about this as being your problem and make it the college's problem! You are paying an institution to provide a product for you and the product is not being presented in a way that it should be due to their staff not tackling the *trouble-maker*. Your only part in this is therefore to tell the institution that they need to deal with a situation that is annoying more than one person - you don't have to justify it to them - there is a problem therefore they have to deal with it. They have a *duty of care* to the rest of the class to make it as comfortable as possible for you in the learning environment. Supposedly the tutors are trained counsellors too? They are the ones who are showing themselves up as not being very good at it by not dealing with this person - not you. Be assertive without being aggressive. Take no prisoners. Get rid of her - if this doesn't work . . . . rat poison? :D:D:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Perhaps the colleges knowingly take on a number of difficult students to give the rest of the group an opportunity to understand how their behaviour affects others, and then to exercise their skills when they are sufficiently developed to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Just wondering - how do you know she is going onto the diploma? I work for an (unnamed, in case it is the same one!) institution and unfortunately regularly come into contact with this type of person, although thankfully not normally doing this type of course! If it is her that has told you she is going on then it may not be true and she could just be kidding herself. If I were you I would check out your college's disciplinary policy (asuming they have one) as causing disruption in class as she is doing is likely to be covered there. Raising the issue with the tutor may not be the answer and I would recommend taking it higher up within the college (student admin / registry / central office - that kind of place) as you are more likely to get a satisfactory response from people more independent from the specific course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ana's flock Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 As Egluntine put it, it's a worrying thought that this person is going to be let loose on the unsuspecting and vulnerable public one day... I have come across people like this in my NLP training. I understand that we all have different points of view, 'the map is not the territory' and all that, but one of the main things in counselling (I believe) is never to leave your client in a worst way that they came in... Still, perhaps she's a 'mole', put in your class for the tutors to observe your responses to her behaviour... or as a 'incognito' patient for you to practice on... Perhaps when she goes on a rant about something irrelevant, instead of losing it with her, ask her an open question like: 'what made you think that?' or 'and how do you feel about it?' At least it'd show you can handle her... or perhaps she 'gets the message'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazpachodragon Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 thanks everyone. i know she's definitely got a place, as a friend was at the same interview as her. perhaps she IS a mole? i'm going to call my tutor tomorrow and ask for a chat - as i'm quite friendly with my old tutor who won't be teaching me this year, i may go down that route before lodging a complaint with the college. i shall let you all know how i get on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
