Warm boot recommendations please

[Cinnamon]

I am sure I am not alone to be so upset,shocked & appalled at the dog attack on a baby this weekend that resulted in the babys death.

 

I am not certain about the laws which are in place on dangerous dogs,so bear with me here.

 

I assume they were not muzzled because they were on private property,but I have a different point to make.

 

The 2 dogs in question were allowed to patrol the grounds & flat roof of the property,& had formed a pack.Apparantly any more than one dog can form a pack,& the pack mentality can lead to agressive attacks (which is the whole point of keeping 2 rotweillers to guard a pub)

So why is there not a ban on keeping more than one of certain breeds of dogs at one time?

Surely if there was no pack,there would be no pack mentality,resulting in fewer attacks?

Surely one of these breeds of dogs is enough for any home anyhow & still enough of a deterrant to burglars?

 

 

[Martin B]

That story was such a shame to hear on the News!

[Louise]

It seems to me that this was a case of two dogs encouraged to be aggressive being looked after by someone with not a clue how to deal with them

 

It is a tragedy though

[Guest]

I have to agree with Louise - 2 dogs that have trained to be aggressive, doing what they were trained to do basically.

 

An absolutely horrific tragedy, but one that could happen so easily again. I spent 10 years working in the pub business as a manager, then as a Stock Control manager, and as Stock Control manager I had to visit various different pubs each week. Many landlords have large dogs for protection, and while I encountered an ENORMOUS dog once in Stirling (it jumped up and put it's front paws on my shoulders, and was taller than me), who was the dopiest, friendliest dog you could ever meet (his owner figured the sheer size of him would put off any numpty willing to have a go, so the dog had been reared beautifully, and was the loveliest mutt you could meet), I also encountered many a Jack Russell, German Shephard and even a poodle, that had been reared to 'kill' a stranger.

 

[Jools]

Any two dogs can become a pack, they don't have to be the same breed. Unfortunately I speak from experience. We have two young male terriers (different breeds) and separately they are absolutely delightful. However, together they become a pack and their behaviour is totally different.

 

This attack is appalling, but until people become more responsible I'm afraid there will be more.

 

I can't imagine how the parents will ever come to terms with this

[Cinnamon]

I agree with you all.

The question is though,would one dog on its own of this or any breed behaved in the same way that the two dogs did?

 

I somehow don't think it would have happened if the family just had the one dog

[CannyCat]

I agree with you all.

The question is though,would one dog on its own of this or any breed behaved in the same way that the two dogs did?

 

I somehow don't think it would have happened if the family just had the one dog

 

I disagree, I think lone dogs can be just as vicious.

 

My partner was walking along the street, and was bitten by a lone terrier (of all things ). The dog ripped his trousers and the owners just kept walking!

 

Imho it's the owners who have the biggest impact on how a dog will act, not whether they're alone or in multiples.

[Louise]

It is always the animal that suffers not the person who encouraged this appaling behaviour

 

I don't really know much about dog behaviour but normally it is the owners lack of control when they are young that turns them out like this

 

Police dogs are trained to attack but not at random so it can be done

[Guest]

Police dogs are trained to attack but not at random so it can be done

 

unless you happen to be Jake....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/pets/pages/jake.shtml

 

Phil

[Louise]

[Jools]

I think the risk would be much higher with a "pack" of dogs, but I have no doubt that one dog on it's own could pose a threat too. I don't have kids but I have always had dogs (up to seven at one time) and much as I loved and trusted them all, I would never, ever, ever have assumed they would be safe with young people. Actually that's not quite true as our wonderful black lab "moved" next door during the day to escape our terriers and he then guarded my neighbour's toddlers from all intruders!!

 

However, children and babies are unpredictable and are not born with common sense. Sudden shouting, screaming, crying, or playful aggressive behaviour can all trigger a dog's natural response. It's great for children to grow up with pets as it can make them nicer human beings, but it does require a lot of thought and care to make it work properly.

[Guest]

or...

 

(more tragically)

 

Police dog attacks baby

 

SPLENDORA, Texas — A 4-month-old boy was being treated for bites on his torso and head after his father's police dog attacked him.

 

Marek Montgomery was in stable condition at a Houston hospital after the Wednesday attack.

 

"The baby was hurt pretty bad, but it was not life-threatening," said Greg Miller, a supervisor with Cleveland Emergency Medical Service.

 

The dog, a Dutch shepherd, was considered a family pet but was owned by the Splendora Police Department, investigators said. The baby's father, Kyle Montgomery, was the dog's handler.

 

The dog had been quarantined at a veterinary office.

 

The baby was in a chair in the family's front yard when the dog bit the baby and dragged him around the yard by his diaper, investigators said. The father was at work. The baby's mother hit the dog to get it to release the boy.

 

"We don't know what, if anything, provoked it. It's still under investigation," said Liberty County Sheriff Greg Arthur.

[Linda]

Aahhh, bless him. He's just sticking to his pacifist principles!!

[Linda]

My last post was about Jake the gentle police dog, of course!!

[Guest]

These dogs were bred and trained as guard dogs - their behaviour was absolutely down to the way the owners have treated them.

 

As far as I can see, the dogs were not normally kept in the flat, nor in public areas, and it was a tragic mistake, which led to a door being left open, and the dogs being able to get to the baby.

[Louise]

I'm afraid I have issues with someone encouraging a dog to attack people

 

It is no different to encouraging them to chase foxes and we aren't allowed to do that anymore

 

It just doesn't feel right asking one animal to attack another natural instinct is one thing but training

 

I am sorry I'll get off my soap box now

[theherd123]

.........their behaviour was absolutely down to the way the owners have treated them.

 

I agree totally! Dogs are much better behaved when they have boundaries to adhere to and a positive guiding hand from their owner.

 

Is it not the same with kids?

[Popcorn]

This is truely a tragic, heartbreaking thing.

 

I know the pub. Have never been as it's not my cup of tea. It's the kind of place where only regulars go. I've seen the dogs too. They pace across the flat roof of the pub and snarl and growl at anyone who passes by. I remember seeing them when Darren and I rode by on our bikes once, and thinking that they were going to jump off the roof and come for us.

There have been complaints in the past from parents who pass the pub on the school run and the dogs have barked and snarled at them.

 

The other really sad/unbelievable thing is that the baby's grandmother (or rather the partner of the baby's grandfather) has been murdered this weekend in an attack in her home.

 

Just shocking. What in the world is going on.

 

This bit of the report (below) reminds me of something Dan said some time ago about people being afraid to confront people about noise or aggresive behaviour. This is a consequence of that.....

 

..."One woman living in the same block of flats at Grassington Close described how a neighbour pounded on her door at about 1.45am, urging her to help. Laura Butterfield, 45, who has lived in the block for six years said she was too terrified to open the door, but minutes later heard the police arrive. She said: "Somebody came banging on my door and said 'help, I need an ambulance'. She was hysterical but I was worried about my own safety so did not open the door. I wasn't sure about answering the door at that time of night, and then 10 minutes later the police turned up..."

 

Leicester Mercury Report

Edited September 26, 2006 by Guest

[The Dogmother]

I think the risk would be much higher with a "pack" of dogs, but I have no doubt that one dog on it's own could pose a threat too. I don't have kids but I have always had dogs (up to seven at one time) and much as I loved and trusted them all, I would never, ever, ever have assumed they would be safe with young people. Actually that's not quite true as our wonderful black lab "moved" next door during the day to escape our terriers and he then guarded my neighbour's toddlers from all intruders!!

 

However, children and babies are unpredictable and are not born with common sense. Sudden shouting, screaming, crying, or playful aggressive behaviour can all trigger a dog's natural response. It's great for children to grow up with pets as it can make them nicer human beings, but it does require a lot of thought and care to make it work properly.

 

I was very shocked too, and agree with Jools on this one. My lurcher was an angel with Rosie, but I would neve have left her alone with the baby for the reasons given above - the dog wouldn't have been able to help itself when its instincts took over.

 

I have seen large rotties like this when I lived in S E London - a lot of the yardie types had them to guard their premises and believe me, they were scary. Why is it so often the wrong people who have this sort of dog?

[theherd123]

I have seen large rotties like this when I lived in S E London - a lot of the yardie types had them to guard their premises and believe me, they were scary. Why is it so often the wrong people who have this sort of dog?

 

Unfortunately its usually because of the way they look - the dog that is!

Rotties, GSDs, bull dogs, bull terriers etc all look aggressive and therefore some idiots believe if they own one the macho image will rub off on them.

All too often i have seen lads walking down the road with an uncontrollable staffie (or other sort of dog) on the lead thinking they 'look 'ard.'

You have to laugh and I feel so sorry for the dog wishing it had a loving owner. In cases like this i think the owner needs putting down not the dog -it can sometimes be retrained!

[The Dogmother]

Too true Emma

[Paola]

This is truely a tragic, heartbreaking thing.

 

I know the pub. Have never been as it's not my cup of tea. It's the kind of place where only regulars go. I've seen the dogs too. They pace across the flat roof of the pub and snarl and growl at anyone who passes by. I remember seeing them when Darren and I rode by on our bikes once, and thinking that they were going to jump off the roof and come for us.

There have been complaints in the past from parents who pass the pub on the school run and the dogs have barked and snarled at them.

 

It is sooo sad I felt sick when I first heard it on the news It sounds like an accident waiting to happen You have to wonder what sort of life those dogs had stuck on a roof I could never live with any animal that was like that. Esp not when you have children.

[Guest]

 

Wasn't there a law passed a few years ago, that required certain breeds of dogs (including doberman and rotweiller) to be muzzled in public?

[Paola]

 

Wasn't there a law passed a few years ago, that required certain breeds of dogs (including doberman and rotweiller) to be muzzled in public?

 

I think it was only for the American Pittbull Terrier

Edited September 26, 2006 by Guest

[The Dogmother]

From my office window, I can see the local trades and labour club. There is a flat above it and the manager lives there with his OH and small child, they have a golden retriever, who lives on a flat roof out the back, which is only about 8' square It makes me so angry that it is being kept in those conditions; I can see their front door from my desk and I have never seen them take the dog out EVER!