4m x 3m Omlet pen, cube, new auto door still boxed and coop light

[Chook n Boo Mum]

Buffie has spent most of the past few days sitting in the run, attending to the Bufflings beautifully, ie making sure they eat & are kept warm etc, but to my mind not looking after herself....how familiar is that to new mums?!

 

Whilst I was sitting in her new run with her and the babies, she's pooed almost pure water several times, ie no proper poo at all. I know she's been drinking because I've put a cage cup of water up higher for her & have to refill it 3 or 4 times a day.

 

There are 2 or 3 feeders of medicated chick crumb and water with ACV added, in chick safe containers which she can eat/drink from, and she has a cage cup of corn with poultry spice added up high for her, which she has eaten only about 1/2 a cup in over a week. I've tried tempting her with yoghurt & bokashi, lettuce, water melon, snails, worms, a few mealworms & woodlice - anything to get protein in & she instantly calls the babies & stands back while they scoff everything! She's just eaten a small bowl of chick crumb porridge as I sat over her, she also drank the best part of a cup of water.

 

Am I right to be concerned? If so, what should I do to help her?

 

I thought yesterday, maybe she had "cabin fever" having been shut in the eglu & run for 4-5 weeks, so we've fashioned an outdoors run for her & the babies away from the marauding masses, but outside the enclosed run.....the Bufflings, once they got over their agoraphobia & worked out where the door was loved it (I'll post some pics on the other thread) & Buffie seemed happier than yesterday, but still isn't "right" and by this evening was back to the same lethargy as yesterday. The run is at least partly shaded all day so she hasn't been in the sun unless she wanted to!

 

Mods, if you'd rather this went to the clinic, that's fine, I just thought maybe the "hatchers" may think that this is "new mum" symptoms rather than sickness

 

Sha x

Edited August 13, 2009 by Guest

[Chook n Boo Mum]

...I've just picked her up, and she's very light compared to the other Orpie Cordelia who also endured a "grab & grope" through the feathers.

 

There doesn't appear to be any visitors on her, which is a good thing, but I thought she would be lighter - just a bit shocked by how much lighter It's not easy to see whether her crop is full/empty etc as she's such a fluff ball.

 

I feel a very bad chook mum at the mo as I've really "left her to it" whereas now I feel I should have intervened sooner.

 

She's not the friendliest/cuddliest of chooks normally & creates absolute blue murder when she's picked up hence the fact I haven't picked her up very often since the babies arrived as it freaks them out to hear her holler!

 

Sha x

[Raina]

Sorry to hear she's not well.

 

I'm sure someone that's used broodies before will come along pretty soon

[Chook n Boo Mum]

She spent a lot of time looking like this yesterday.

 

 

I went to check they were all tucked in about an hour ago & one of the babies had snuggled up on her back & slid down almost over her neck, pushing her head towards the hemcore. I removed the little tinker & it snuck under her skirt, I just hope it doesn't do it again & suffocate her

 

 

Sha x

[smanners]

Hi Sha,

From my experience, broodies do tend to feed their chicks first. I was shocked when my broody who, under normal circumstances would kill for sweet corn and grapes, would offer them to her babies first and even go without herself

They are very attentive mums and spend huge amounts of time caring for their brood at the expense of themselves :roll:They are not keen to leave their chicks who will call loudly if mum wanders too far.

I didn't have any watery poos though just those large foul smelling broody poos once/twice a day for a while.

I would keep a bit of an eye in case she's picked up a bug.You could maybe try some bokashi bran live yoghurt for her.

Other than the poos I would say that was normal behaviour for a broody.

I think they are quite hardy and will gradually return to their normal selves as the chicks get older and definately when the chicks are about are about 6 weeks old.

good luck

Sophie

[Chook n Boo Mum]

Thanks Sophie, I am probably getting myself in a stew for no reason, but she has been looking so sorry for herself.

 

When I checked her earlier & the littl'un was across her neck, I almost burst in to tears that she didn't seem to have the strength to move the little parasite herself. (and did burst into tears when I typed it earlier )

 

I'm just she's ok in the morning. I've got more yoghurt so I'll put some in with bokashi & crumb again for breakfast. I assume the Bufflings will be ok with this too?

 

I knew it wasn't a good idea to have 13 chooks..............

 

Sha x

[smanners]

I know how you feel I was anxious too. :anxious:I was a lot more laid back the second time.

In my experience broody hens do spend a lot of time with their babies and can look rather tired for it.( just like us mums). Rocky didn't eat much herself, poo'd very little but raised all 11 just fine.

BTW it was when I was giving Rocky a grape that she broke it up and fed it to the babies They were only young and I didn't expect her to give it to them I worried for ages about that because the advice is not to feed the babies treats.

Then I realised that she would give them allsorts that she found; bits of corn,tiny bugs etc.

If you listen to the mum she clucks at the babies when there is something ok for them to eat.

 

I'm sure Buffie will be fine and is just being a typical mum.The youngsters have loads of energy which makes the mum look rather quiet; they do climb all over her and will ride round on her back.

Try not to worry and just keep an eye on her diarrhoea, make sure food and water is available for her. Rocky had chick crumbs and a bit of mixed corn for energy.

 

Good luck Sha and try to enjoy it as they don't stay young very long

 

 

If it's any reassurance you are not alone ......I have 16 now

[Daphne]

Sha - when I viewed the video on Saturday I was a bit concerned because Buffie had her eyes closed a lot, and then in your new pix its the same. I don't wish to alarm you, and yes she is a new Mum, but I don't think this is normal. Clear poo is the sign of something -apparently either the hen is too hot (as she's taking on water it could be this) or not eating enough (yes we know!) but to me, the Q is why. Has she been wormed? Have you checked ultra thoroughly for lice/mites and redmite? Brooding is one of those events which can bring out any latent illness in less than 100% birds. Going a bit light is normal in Mums because as you say they look after babes first. Chick crumb is good, also have you tried weetabix (not brill for protein but it gets something into her, will she take wheat/corn?). Its good she's drinking. There are some tonics (Avipro springs to mind) which could also help. BUT, if she was mine I would consider the vet. Last time one of mine was ill (splash orp as it happens) she started off sitting around with closed eyes - then getting up and being reasonably normal. She was light but nothing else obviously 'wrong'. It took over a month for the final diagnosis- eventually she had bubbly eyes and so then we knew it was myco. I'm not saying you have this (far from it), just I think closed eyes is a warning sign. I think I'd read up on protein because she ate her own feather in the video as well. Don't worry about what you did/didn't do, you've spotted a problem and now we'll try to fix it.

[Chook n Boo Mum]

Hi Sophie, thanks again for the encouragement, you'll know from the first time you hatched how much I appreciate the "pep talk"

 

Well, she's up & about & has eaten half a bowl of sloppy yoghurt, bokashi, crumb & a pinch of poultry spice, calling the babies as you say for a taster...they get bored after a couple of beakfuls so she carries on for a good 10 minutes pecking up mainly the sloppier stuff but at least it contains more goodness than water alone. I did notice her having a few beakfuls of grit this morning too, which I haven't noticed before, this may also help with digestion etc.

 

I've attached a whole sweetcorn to the outside of the eglu run, at a position that the little ones can get to it as well as mum...she nearly burst she was so excited...the chicks didn't give it the attention she felt it deserved & snaffled a few pecks that she fed them, then went off to snooze/chase flies/beat up a leaf as they do!!! Buffie then carried on with working her way over the surface of the corn

 

Her poo this morning resembles chopped spinach in water, rather like when a new born baby has a growth spurt & needs extra feeding (well mine did & it freaked me out!!). I've also checked out the poo threads - http://www.chat.allotment.org.uk/index.php?topic=17568.0 lovely subject for pre-breakfast I can assure you!! - and hopefully it because she hasn't eaten properly for so long, as is the tiredness. I'll see how she is later & if the poos haven't started to "normalise" after eating a more reasonable amount I'll ring the vet.

 

Ho hum ! Thank you again, S xx

 

Sha x

 

p.s. I didn't get the Bournemouth eglu it shot up to well over £200 from about £185 in the last seconds ...nor any of the local ones either ..I'm still looking though!!

[Daphne]

good - its much better news if she's showing interest in food! I'd just monitor the closing eyes as well as the poo.

[Chook n Boo Mum]

Sha - when I viewed the video on Saturday I was a bit concerned because Buffie had her eyes closed a lot, and then in your new pix its the same. I don't wish to alarm you, and yes she is a new Mum, but I don't think this is normal. Clear poo is the sign of something -apparently either the hen is too hot (as she's taking on water it could be this) or not eating enough (yes we know!) but to me, the Q is why. Has she been wormed? Have you checked ultra thoroughly for lice/mites and redmite? Brooding is one of those events which can bring out any latent illness in less than 100% birds. Going a bit light is normal in Mums because as you say they look after babes first. Chick crumb is good, also have you tried weetabix (not brill for protein but it gets something into her, will she take wheat/corn?). Its good she's drinking. There are some tonics (Avipro springs to mind) which could also help. BUT, if she was mine I would consider the vet. Last time one of mine was ill (splash orp as it happens) she started off sitting around with closed eyes - then getting up and being reasonably normal. She was light but nothing else obviously 'wrong'. It took over a month for the final diagnosis- eventually she had bubbly eyes and so then we knew it was myco. I'm not saying you have this (far from it), just I think closed eyes is a warning sign. I think I'd read up on protein because she ate her own feather in the video as well. Don't worry about what you did/didn't do, you've spotted a problem and now we'll try to fix it.

 

I think she ate the feather because it was the easiest way to get rid of it, she doesn't eat any which are lying around.

 

I'm just waiting for the vet to get off the phone so I can speak to them & see if they have any avipro before I order some on the web.

 

Thank you so much for your concern, sometimes it takes a fresh pair of eyes to look at a situation and recognise there may be another problem..I'll try the vet again........

 

Sha x

[Chook n Boo Mum]

I've spoken to our vet nurse, she's going to order me some Avipro for tomorrow and get the vet to call me when he gets a minute. I wouldn't say he's an expert, but he has owned chooks in the past, so at least he knows one end of a chook to the other

 

Just been out to check Buffie & she's stripped the sweetcorn.......

 

Sha x

[Chook n Boo Mum]

OK David our vet has rung me back....he suggests worming her - dosed on a grape so it goes into her not the babies, he's also going to put some Baytril up for me to collect tomorrow with the Avipro so I can dose her 1 or 2 drops in her beak morning & evening.

 

Next question, am overloading her with medication if I do everything together?

 

Thankfully he didn't suggest I take her down to the surgery, I think the stress may have been too much for either of us to stand !!

 

Sha x

[Daphne]

well I'm not an expert but out of that lot the baytril is the general anti-b to sort her out if she is ill and the flube is to treat something specific if there is a worm problem. I'd be wanting to get them into her in that order with the avipro as the nice-to-have which I might not use yet, partic as she's stuffed her face with sweetcorn. But it might be that wormer/anti-b simultaneously are a bit much as they are both 'medicines'. I think I'd call the vet back to check your options. Do let us know, I'd be interested in what they say.

[Chook n Boo Mum]

I've picked up the baytril & given her the first dose...I have to say that seems to be a good way to go at the mo.....

 

When I get back from taking DD riding I shall gather up B & the babies & bring them indoors so at least she'll be warm......

 

Sha x

[Falkor]

ooh Sha...just caught up with this!

 

Sorry can`t offer any advice but sounds like you are doing everything right

 

Hugs to you and a big feathery Orp snuggle to Buffie! Hi to the Bufflings too...."go easy on your mother!"

[smanners]

Hi Sha,

Glad to hear Buffie appears a bit brighter and is eating the sweetcorn etc ......... if they ignore sweetcorn or grapes then something's definitely up! ........ that's my motto

They are such a worry aren't they? I've certainly been there too.

Hopefully the antibiotics and wormers will sort out any lurking bug/worms and the Avipro will perk her up

The live yoghurt will be very useful to replace friendly bowel flora after the Baytril has finished.

Hope she continues to improve for you {{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}

Sophie

[abwsco]

Fingers crossed she will be OK Sha. I've noticed today that my broody has lost nearly all her tail feathers and for some reason she's still pulling feathers out on her belly as well Mind you I think mine will be ready for leaving hers soon as they're 6 weeks old tomorrow.

[Chook n Boo Mum]

Thanks everyone for their good wishes...I think they are having an effect......along with the baytril, 3 doses have been administered against her wishes of course, but I persevered, then followed it up on the second 2 doses with a sloppy mix of crumb, bokashi, yoghurt, honey & egg yolk which I syringed into her mouth...also against her wishes .

 

She is looking so much better, her tail is up, she's pooing much more chook-like (the poo-watching is a fairly new addiction even the children are watching now!!), though a fair way from "dinner rolls" but at least it looks like food has been through her system thankfully.

 

I was also recommended in times of trouble with a chook not eating properly, that a small amount of cake is a good treat...it has protein from the egg & fat and carbs from the flour & sugar for energy..Dad's left-over birthday cake came in very useful this morning. She's also had a few dried mealworms & positively shrieked when she saw them last night!!

 

I have to say before I took DD riding yesterday I was seriously worried about Buffie & spent a fair amount of yesterday afternoon dissolving into tears. It wasn't helped by the fact that when DH arrived home she was walking around the run with the babies, looking almost normal & he didn't believe that I thought I had a dead chook in my arms when I gave her the first dose of Baytril....I gave up trying to convince him & left him wallowing in selfpity with his running nose He was not sympathetic when I suggested she came indoors & nearly got both barrels from me.......I walked away & as B was looking so much better decided against it, had she still been as poorly though, I would have had her in bed with me if that had been what it took..the babies would have been an interesting set of bedmates

 

Sha x

[Daphne]

Its because you've put so much love and attention into her and its your first set of babies. Its hard when they're ill because you want them to be better but they're very hard to read which is why they seem to go from well to half-dead in a trice and back again with no hint of the in-betweeny stages. It sounds like your TLC, cake and meds are doing the trick

[Chook n Boo Mum]

I forgot to say Daphne, the vet nurse said we should do the baytril first then treat her for worms, not both together!

 

Sha x

[teri]

hi sha

i'm just catching up on the forum after being away. so sorry to hear about Buffie, glad to see she is getting better! i'm sure with all the TLC she's getting from you she will be back to full fitness really quickly x

[Daphne]

is she still making progress? It can take a while.

[Chook n Boo Mum]

No much no, I feel like I'm on a rollercoaster with her!

 

This morning, I had her on my lap to give her the baytril & syringe her breakfast in, and I realise that her crop is very firm, not hard, as in I was able to massage it...which I did and put a syringe of olive oil in too for good measure.

 

She has a veritable smorgasbord out there to tempt her; sweetcorn, cucumber and lightly scrambled egg (a very thin shelled egg rescued form the nestbox before the other girls used it as a moisturiser !) as well as a cage cup of corn, one of chick crumb and one of the remains of her breakfast slop. Obviously the babies feeders of crumb water and a pot of crumb porridge are out there too. Nothing seems to be taking her fancy...am I now offering too much do you think?!

 

I just hope that by grabbing her & syringing the food in it isn't stressing her & the babies too much...I know it's necessary, but she still creates a bit & that upsets the little'uns.........I'm a big scary monster who makes their mum scream so don't come near me at all

 

Sha x

[Daphne]

I really feel for you, this is bringing back memories of me in April/May this year with my splash.

 

I've heard that Baytril can interfere with their appetite, but I don't know this and I figure that when they're ill they're not hungry anyway so who knows if its the Baytril. I think you have to do whats best in your opinion. She needs water most, but then she does need food and if the only way she'll take it is by you 'helping' then I'd help; little and often; I'm not convinced by the little bird brains' abilities to do whats best for them so I would be interfering although as I say, ill birds don't eat much. I used to put the slop (weetabix worked for me) on my fingers/palm and hold them out to her, she'd maybe have one or two peckings every other hour. Whatever you choose wet food can be easiest. I'd leave her with her choice, but accept for a bit anyway you will have to intervene. Tell the babies they'll understand when they grow up The morning they get up of their own accord and wander to the bowl for a bit of a nosh is fabulous

 

Massaging crop can only be a good thing. I wonder, I hope not, if she has some crop impaction and/or infection? I hate going off on false alarms and I've never had crop impaction, but that might explain her losing weight and if an infection her general ill health? Perhaps a bit of reading up? Is her crop empty 1st thing in the morning? However, I do think its important not to get too carried away/downcast without knowing whats occuring - she obviously needs special care as she's a mum. Keep monitoring today/tomorrow, do a bit of research and if the crop shows no improvement/worsening I think I'd have to be thinking of vet again on Fri. If the crop is OK but she is still mopy (but no worse) I would just see out the course of Baytril and then reassess.

 

Fingers crossed for you all,

Daph