Single hen

[gooner.girl]

Helen, it is NOT an age thing and I don't think it's particularly high-brow. But I do think Classical music is something most people have to be introduced to. I have sung in church choirs since the age of 7, I went on to take a music degree and have taught music ever since. That doesn't make me a prude and doesn't mean I can't appreciate good music of any style. My children also love classical music, probably because it has always been part of their lives, but that doesn't stop them enjoying bands and artists of today just as much. Perhaps we just have a broader experience of music than you do?

 

We have just watched Queen's top ten hits on the TV and thoroughly enjoyed every one. They are classics. So are Abba (and I remember the originals) and Elton John.

 

As for church music, I prefer Tim Hughes to Matt Redman on the whole, but I also love John Tavener and John Rutter, both of whom are just as contemporary. I also love the old hymns and anthems and marvel at the similarities being expressed in both the old and the new. That connects me to the whole of Christendom, the fact that we are singing hymns which thousands of Christians before us have sung too and the fact that we are still believing the same things about our God.

 

O come all ye faithful and Hark! the herald angels sing are both 18th century carols. Their age doesn't mean that we should stop singing them. But modern carols and songs can contribute just as much.

 

It is my entire church music philosophy that nothing should be dismissed or disregarded purely because of its age (whether old or new). There are people in both camps who object to anything from the other, but I work hard to mix and match and use whatever is appropriate to the worship.

 

Sorry, I'm not having a go at you! You just touched on two subjects that really get me going!

 

I never said you were a prude Ginette! Or anyone else! Everyone is entitled to enjoy whatever music they want You probably do have a broader view of music then me, i'm not very experimental, i know what music i like and stick with it (i'm like that with food as well!) I don't like change and i should be broader minded that way - its a failing of mine!

 

Re church music - don't get me wrong, if ever i'm leading on a sunday i always throw a hymn in with all the modern ones i chose! There are some great ones about, my favourites - And can it be, Be thou my vision, Praise to the lord the almighty (i chose that one for our wedding - great words) however our church is modern - we meet in a school, we don't have an organ, we have guitars and pianos and drums etc and our congregation is fairly young so we generally have a different style of worship.... Its more of a happy clappy church...

 

What gets my goat is dry dusty church's (usually Cof E but not always! The Anglican church in our village is very on the ball) that only sing from hymn books, old songs with 20 verses that half the time don't even talk much about God. Generally these are churches that are filled with people that only go to church for going to churchs sake and do not have a spirit filled relationship with God. It just doesn't feel much like proper WORSHIP just going through the motions.

 

SNOWY??!!! Where are you? Back me up here!

 

And don't get me started on non christian weddings... Noone ever sings and its only songs that they've learnt at school that they chose.

 

As for carols - i love them! They're great. Some of them fantastic words (like you say hark the herald, o come all ye faithful) some slightly more dubious - (in the bleak mid winters pretty odd til the last verse but lovely tune)

 

I'm sorry when it comes to churches i am a complete denomination s"Ooops, word censored!" and judge far to quickly but please don't hate me - i'm working on it! I wasn't having a go at you or anyone else on the forum, i wish i was less of a plebian when it comes to music!

[gooner.girl]

Plus on the age thing - have been busy tonight helped out at the church youth group - felt old (11-14 yr olds) went round to friends to pick Mike up (he was playing board games) Felt relativly young as i was youngest out of 7 people in late 20's early 30's then went to a friend from footballs 18th birthday and felt REALLY old... I couldn't even be bothered to get up and dance - its been a long week! Old gimmer me eh?

[Snowy]

SNOWY??!!! Where are you? Back me up here!

 

I'm here - but don't know what to add really! Must admit, it was 'old style ritual' that kept me away from churches for many, many years. I only came back when I discovered that it could be very different with the modern music groups. But I do love all styles of music, both in and out of church! Someone recently said to me that the Christian church is a bit like a newspaper - you pick the style that suits you best, the message is still the same! Music is very personal isn't it? But that's it's beauty - there's something for everyone's mood and taste!

[gooner.girl]

Thanks Snowy, thats much more succinct then my rambling post!

[Guest]

Snowy, I like your newspaper analogy. I strongly believe i n that - find the right church for you.

 

I do understand what you both mean about the dry dusty ritual-going style churches. But I try really hard not to judge them, that is not for me to do. And a proper prayer book choral evensong is incredibly worshipful and always grabs me even if I wasn't in the mood.

 

I am so fortunate in the church where I work. We have prayer book services, 'middle-of-the-road' morning worship and alternative services in which we explore Iona and others as well as our monthly youth service, excellent youth band which plays all over the deanery and a monthly family service with orchestra/band. The church is a very good example of a family with all ages present. We have about 100 children on the Junior Church books. So we enjoy all styles of music and worship and I feel very privileged and lucky to be there.

[gooner.girl]

Sounds like a great Church Ginette, really caters for everybody!

[Guest]

Yes! And it's Church of England!

[gooner.girl]

Most unusual then!

[Lesley]

Ours isn't bad either - and that's C of E as well!

[Popcorn]

And don't get me started on non christian weddings... Noone ever sings and its only songs that they've learnt at school that they chose

 

 

If you have a civil ceremony there can be no religious connotaion/association at all, which is why people don't tend to sing.It's all about choice at the end of the day and it seems a little unfair to be so generalistic. There is nothing negative about a non christian wedding.

 

I would imagine if somebody doesn't attend church on a regular basis, the only songs they would know were those from school assembly. They wouldn't really be familiar with what is being sung in church.

 

I do remember singing Morning has Broken in school - A LOT!

[gooner.girl]

There is nothing negative about a non christian wedding.

 

I never said there was Gina.

 

I just think that for people who don't believe in God or have any faith at all having a christian wedding IN A CHURCH is a bit weird, particuarly when there are so many nice places to have a civil ceremony these days.

[Sheilaz]

Re church music - don't get me wrong, ................

........................And don't get me started on non christian weddings... Noone ever sings and its only songs that they've learnt at school that they chose.

 

Gina, it was a very long post, (do you talk as fast as you type Helen ) so Stefan probably skim read it for you.

But I do think it was clear that Helen was talking about weddings which are non Christian but held in a church. Absolutely nothing against other ceremonies.

[Popcorn]

Yes, I always found it a bit strange when couples getting married go to church 6 or so weeks before they can get married, yet don't normally go. I guess they are the people who sit on the fence and haven't ruled out God, but just don't practice a religion. Lots of my friends do believe in God, but don't go to church and don't know or sing hymms (other than the ones we all sang at school, so it would be an obvious choice)

 

Apologies that I have read your post in the wrong context Helen. I read it that you were talking about civil ceremonies - when you said 'non christian weddings'.That's why it looked so negative. All cleared up now.

 

I guess there are many people who just do what is traditional and what their parents and their parents have done without questioning anything.

[Guest]

This is a very interesting debate, though I wonder if it should have its own thread?

 

I hope no-one is getting heated about it. It is good to discuss things like this and we can't learn and add to our own experiences without listening to the views of others. I am enjoying it!

 

I just think that for people who don't believe in God or have any faith at all having a christian wedding IN A CHURCH is a bit weird, particuarly when there are so many nice places to have a civil ceremony these days.

As I said before Helen, we don't have to judge people, that is not our role. I do find it strange when non-church goers opt for a church wedding and I yearn to discuss their reasons with them. Yes, they choose school hymns or football hymns, but far better that people sing than the organ just plays and everyone feels embarrassed listening and not singing! But, I have come to think that it is lovely that people still choose a church wedding, even if they never go to church. I don't need to know why, I am just pleased that they come. It is part of my role to make their visit a pleasant one - then they might come back!

[Sheilaz]

Some really good points, Gina & Ginette, & I don't suppose it matters if conversation drifts off a bit, we're already wondering what next month's CD choice will be, so we'll have to chat a bit.

The earlier comment about opera (Helen). I used to be really turned off opera because it just didn't mean anything to me. Then, about 5 years ago, my brother worked on one and we went to see it. It was sung in Italian, with sur titles in German (for we were in Innsbruck). But, my brother had explained the plot first, at a 5yr old level (as Esther was there too ) and I was hooked from start to finish. We were shouting Bravo! with the rest of them (loudly to drown out any boos at the rather odd English designer )

We then saw another in Munich a couple of years later, again with both daughters, and this Summer will even be going to Glyndebourne. 10 yrs ago I would never have entertained the idea, so do give listening to a different style of music a fair go, you might enjoy it. The skill & power was breathtaking to me.

Sorry Phil, I'm off to re read what you said at the beginning of the topic!

[gooner.girl]

But I do think it was clear that Helen was talking about weddings which are non Christian but held in a church. Absolutely nothing against other ceremonies.

 

Sheilas right Gina, i wasn't talking about civil ceremonies, just church weddings!

 

Ginette, i'm really not judging (God can do that ) i'm just interested in why they have church weddings when not christian themselves but maybe its for the reasons Gina's put.

 

Don't get me wrong, i think it great that they chose a church and the minister and congregartion can be a real witness in these situations. I just meant that sometimes there can be a lack of atmosphere if noone knows the words of songs, as i went to a non christians friends wedding last year and Mike and i were the only ones, pretty much, singing the songs -everyone else looked like they really would rather not be there singing! (oh and they were all 'school' type songs as well! )

[Snowy]

I had a church wedding before becoming a christian (the church was the prettiest option ), and the only hymn I knew was All Things Bright and Beautiful - so that's what was sung at MY wedding!! (At least everyone knew the words )

[gooner.girl]

Have to say despite being a pentecostal and now a baptist we got married at Mikes old church, the village C of E cos it was the prettiest! We pleased his mum anyway (about the last time I did - i think she thinks i'm a bit to wild for her darling son! I mean, i have CHICKENS in the back garden! )

 

I had a lovely wedding. Red colour scheme much to my bridesmaids disgust! We had a lovely arch of flowers around the outside (red (of course!) orange and yellow) Very pretty. Also bells rung which was great, you couldn't have that at many other places... And it was plenty big enough for all our friends and family. Perfect really. And at our wedding reception all the tables were named after old "Ooops, word censored!"nal players!

 

Mikes friend who is an "Ooops, word censored!"nal fan married us though he had to wear his robes which was a shame - i wanted him to wear his suit and an "Ooops, word censored!"nal tie! Our friends formed the worship band and they were GREAT!

 

Only problem is the whole day felt a bit dreamlike, wish i could relive it again! (Oh and we weren't actually legally married on the day because someone accidentally tore the wedding certificate up but thats another story! ) I loved my dress, i've still got it... i want to wear it again!

[One Man Banned]

.....Oh and we weren't actually legally married on the day because someone accidentally tore the wedding certificate up but thats another story! )

 

Oh you've got to do an "interesting but true" type thread and tell us all about that!

 

 

A

xx

[gooner.girl]

Its not that long a story Andrew... Not worth another thread!

 

If you really want to know, Mikes best man was suposed to look after the certificate and left it in the church. Some old geezer who tidys up after weddings saw it and thought because it had some crossings out on it it wasn't wanted or valid (both our addresses had changed since it had been prepared) so he tore it up and throw it away.

 

We only realised after we got back from honeymoon and couldn't find the certificate. So on a thursday evening after we had both been at work all day we had to go back to the church with Mikes dad and a friend of ours as witnesses to redo the certificate and make it legal. The poor vicar had to come down from up north in easter week (so his busiest time of year) just so he could validate our certificate which took all of 5 minutes.

 

Mike actually was wearing a suit as he had been at work but i'd also come straight from work so was wearing jogging bottoms and hoodie - hardly appropriate wedding gear! We didn't have to say our vows again - jsut as well as i'd probably broken several already on honeymoon!

 

Anyhow a year later we came accross the old gimmer again (and his wife) after seeing an advert of theirs selling their kittens and as we were looking for a cat went over to their house and ended up getting Bess and Alfie our lovely 2 cats. I don't think he clicked that it was us though... Bless...

[Sheilaz]

What a funny story, Helen.

Well, I've just been back to read Phil's 1st post to remind myself what the topic was about. Tenebrae sound wonderful, and what an awesome (literally) collection of music.

[Snowy]

Tut tut - very naughty vicar - marriage certificates are not supposed to be filled out in advance of the occasion!! As the 'Authorised Person' for our church, I have the job of preparing and ensuring that the certificates are filled in correctly and signed. I get so nervous that I will make a mistake and / or lose a copy! Good job we don't get many weddings!

[Lesley]

I've just split this from the CD topic.........

[Cinnamon]

There is nothing negative about a non christian wedding.

 

I never said there was Gina.

 

I just think that for people who don't believe in God or have any faith at all having a christian wedding IN A CHURCH is a bit weird, particuarly when there are so many nice places to have a civil ceremony these days.

 

Ah- that would be me then

 

Neither of us are believers, & I will only really go into a church if I really have to (weddings etc), but we chose to have a church wedding.

It was 17 years ago, so it was that or the registry office. We chose the church for tradition, not religion.It made some members of our family happy to see us wed in church, & that was important to us.

As for the Hymns, I couldn't even tell you what they were, & we kept the ceremony as basic as we possibly could.

 

 

[gooner.girl]

Would you still do it if you were getting married now Sarah or would you go for somewhere else? There are soooo many places you can get married these days... I guess much more choice then 17 years ago. You can get married underwater or scuba diving now!

 

I'd like to have got married at Highbury - "Ooops, word censored!"nals old stadium! Not sure what the mother in law would have made of that though...