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[Leicester_H]

Yes - thats what seems to happen now (stunned - killed Halal style without the prayer) but has that always been the case in the UK ?

 

H

[Old Speckled Hen]

Well, I had to learn meat inspection in 1973 and I then the animals were stunned, strung up by the hind legs bled and pithed. All done in less than 20 seconds.

[Valkyrie]

All New Zealand meat is now halal. I have boycotted all New Zealand products. I am so sick of these underhand sneaky methods of bringing in something that is so wrong without being informed so you can make a choice - and by not labelling it seems we have no choice at all - same for GM products. We buy lamb and pork from a local farmer (I say local - we travel half an hour to get there) and it is a family run business and we tend to bulk buy or order a whole or half lamb. Lots of people don't get that opportunity to buy their meat that way, so I consider myself lucky.

If they are adopting halal methods in the slaughter houses is it safe to assume that the porkers are treated in the same way even if they are not eaten by the minority that are being catered for on religious grounds?

[Leicester_H]

We buy lamb and pork from a local farmer (I say local - we travel half an hour to get there) and it is a family run business and we tend to bulk buy or order a whole or half lamb. Lots of people don't get that opportunity to buy their meat that way, so I consider myself lucky.

Don't mean to worry you - but have you confirmed the slaughter method ?

 

If they are adopting halal methods in the slaughter houses is it safe to assume that the porkers are treated in the same way even if they are not eaten by the minority that are being catered for on religious grounds?

 

That is my fear - if slaughter houses have a 'production' line suitable for Halal, why would they go to the expense of having another one for non-Halal ?

 

BUT I am now very confused over this whole issue. I thought that animals weren't traditionally killed by slitting their throats (after stunning) and that this was a new(ish) method introduced because the abbatoirs just had one production line.

However, from one of the replies above, it would seem that my understanding is wrong ? So IF all that is new is that a Muslim Prayer is said at the time of sluaghter, provided the animal is adequately pre-stunned, there would seem to be no difference from the animal welfare point of view ??

[Valkyrie]

Hmm, interesting point - I'll check next time I go and let you know.

The thought of animals being insufficiently stunned has always been a problem with me, particularly if the contraption hasn't been applied correctly in the first place.

[Geoid]

I read somewhere (the new scientist, I think it was) that traditional stunning is not allowed with halal meat, because the animal does not wake up from the stunning afterwards. It also said that studies showed that the animal undergoes intense pain when slaughtered using the halal method.

[Leicester_H]

Hi - me again!

 

According to the The Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations 1995

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/731/schedule/5/made

PART III KILLING

Methods of killing animals

13. No person shall kill, or cause or permit to be killed, any animal except by one of the following methods—

(a)free bullet;

(b)electrocution;

©for birds only, decapitation or dislocation of the neck; or

(d)exposure of pigs and birds to gas mixtures in accordance with Schedule 7.

but then goes on to specify the conditions for "BLEEDING OR PITHING OF ANIMALS"

 

- this seems contradictory to me if animals can only be killed by 1 of the 4 methods above ?? (unless Bleeding and pithing applies to animals that have already been killed by 1 of the 4 approved methods)

[Griffin]

I watched a programme a few years ago on Halal meat production and to be honest if what I saw is typical of the way Halal meat is slaughtered then I don't have an issue with it. It showed cows being slaughtered by highly skilled men and it was over in seconds. They were not stunned.

[Leicester_H]

Yes - I believe that if done PERFECTLY, Halal method is fine. However, I don't believe this method lends itself to the mass slaughter of animals.

[Valkyrie]

Been to our farmer this morning - his animals are humanely killed and he wouldn't want it any other way. He said he didn't think his customers would be happy otherwise. He also gave us a guided tour - his chickens are well looked after and the piggies, well they are brilliant characters. We also saw the lambs due for slaughter and an old girl who will become mutton. They had 3 calves that they had just brought in and one slurped my hand (it's OK I've washed and disinfected!!!). All in all we had an in depth tutorial of how the business was run and how the animals are reared. Cattle are in the fields until night when they come inside - they've been inside for a while as they had a foot and a half of snow. We are very happy with the way the animals are looked after and consider ourselves lucky that we have found a really nice family concern to support. Anyone visiting is welcome to look around - any time, so if anyone's interested:

 

http://www.bowtellfarmshop.co.uk/

[Leicester_H]

Lucky you - and well done for enquiring. I'm sure the farmer is pleased that customers are interested.

 

Do you know what 'humanely killed' method is exactly ?

 

H

[Valkyrie]

The cattle have a captive bolt fired by a .22 bullet done by trained men and in the presence of a Ministry vet. The smaller animals are dispatched the same way as HFW's piggies were if you saw that programme (or Jamie's programmes). Of course my brother would say "of course they suffered - they were killed weren't they?" But then he is a carnivore so his wind-ups don't bother me. I know the animals have had a well cared for life - some shorter than others and I am quite convinced that their death is quick and minimal stress caused - of course I would think any unusual treatment would cause a certain amount of stress in an animal.

As a result of our visit there, OH is now considering rearing pigs and sheep when (if) we get our smallholding. Having dispatched one of our chickens and roasted him (not pleasant for a first timer mainly down to a squeamish OH who refused to even help pluck the bird) I would be happy to rear birds for the table in the future. I know OH won't be doing the deed.

[greyhoundgirl]

I'm going to throw a spanner into the works! We were very lucky to recently buy some pig off a friend where they were reared outdoors for their whole lives. They were looked after very well and treated with respect. The meat is divine.Expensive, but I'm willing to pay that for meat that I have watched grow and enjoy an outside life.

 

Whilst I was talking to our friends this little gem came up. Apparently meat in the $upermarket$ even though labled as 'outdoor reared' actually only has to live outside for 3 weeks.

 

I always buy this meat, mostly on humane grounds, but it now seems that yet again we the consumer are being fobbed off.

 

And try buying free range chicken!!! The lables on battery chicken are so clever they look like free range. Lots of woods and green pictures. They should be labled the same way battery eggs are' from caged birds'. I do rant around Tesco when I'm unlucky enough to shop there. People must think a really misserable old bird!

 

I'm going to have to go back to the farmers markets to ask the farmers themselves how their meat is reared and slaughtered.

[The Dogmother]

Yet another reason for buying free range and local.

[Leicester_H]

Yet another reason for buying free range and local.

Yes but lamb at my local farmers market is still killed Halal style (which I'm still not sure if I'm comfortable with)

[Old Speckled Hen]

Last June the European Parliament voted to amend food labelling regs to stipulate that packaging should indicate the country of origin and if the animal was slaughtered without stunning.

Sadly the EU agriculture and fisheries council has not accepted the amendment regarding stunning.

This is a huge step backwards. Veterinary organisations in the UK believe that all animals should be stunned before slaughter but as long as slaughter without stunning is permitted the consumer should have the ammunition for an informed decision.

At least I have a choice in that I can question my farm supplier but "Ooops, word censored!"ody buying supermarket meat seems safe.

Perhaps the answer is for UK producers to label anyway and we could reject any meat without such a label.

[sadietoo]

Yet another reason for buying free range and local.

 

or being vegetarian.....