Part 0800.0005

[Reikiranf]

I wish the vaccine had been around when my daughters were young, there are 2 years between my girls, the eldest had had smears every 3 years since she was 18 or 21years old (I can't remember what the age used to be) by the time the younger one was old enough they'd changed it to 25. She is in Australia & hadn't been well so had some tests done and the Doctor suggested a smear test as at 24 she'd never had one, she had the worst possible result and had to have treatment, but is thankfully alright now. I just thank my lucky stars that she was in Australia, as had she been at home when she turned 25 in March, I don't think that a smear test would have been first on her list.

 

If they aren't going to lower the age for smear tests then I can't see why GP's and family planning clinics don't/can't send those they know to be sexually active for smears before they are 25. It will be interesting to see if it does wipe out cervical cancer in the future, but even without my daughter's experience I would have been willing to take a chance on the vaccine, having had a few friends who had abnormal smears & needed treatment in their early 20's.

[The Dogmother]

I agree, I'd like to see smears annually for all sexually active women, three years is too long - I lost a friend who was diagnosed too late because of that.

[Yorkshire Pudding]

It's not just about a child's moral compass though - anyone who has ever had unprotected sex has a high chance of being infected with hpv, even if they wait until they're married. They just issue it at a young age so it's got a higher likelihood of being effective. Vaccinating people already exposed to it would be a waste of money. Someone's behaviour doesn't necessarily stop them from contracting it unless they take a vow of celibacy.

 

I agree, and I feel compelled to point out that not all girl's' first experience happens through choice - I've met and supported many who felt pressured to have sex at a point and with a person that otherwise they wouldn't have chosen.

 

I too have boys and would have them vaccinated if I could.

[Alis girls]

I see all sides here and I think a lot of parents think the vaccine is a green light for teens to jump into bed with numerous partners. However can i just reassure you - well certainly in the clinic I work at if a woman younger than 25 comes in with unusual symptons and hasnt had a smear - ie bleeding between periods, after sex and unusual pain we would offer a smear on clinical grounds. If you or anyone who has these symptons is under 25 and refused a smear - kick up a stink - cos any nurse or GP who is worth anything would make this one of the first tests.

The other age group with STD;s on the increase is the middle aged - newly single who start a new relationship also think they are immune.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

[squiffs]

I would definitely sleep easier if I was able to be called for my first smear, unfortunately, that won't be until 2014. I will have been 'active' for just over a decade before that time.

 

The facts I remind myself of are that the strands of HPV the vaccine targets, cause 86% of cervical cancers, compared to 25% of 'gender neutral' cancers, and that a condom does not protect against HPV, as it can be transmitted with skin contact. A woman who has one partner a year over 4 years will have an 85% chance of having HPV. Most adults have had it. Before this vaccination was developed the question of contracting HPV was more often 'when' than 'how', and that's an uneasy thought to live with, knowing its causal link to cancer now.

[Valkyrie]

It's not just about a child's moral compass though - anyone who has ever had unprotected sex has a high chance of being infected with hpv, even if they wait until they're married. They just issue it at a young age so it's got a higher likelihood of being effective. Vaccinating people already exposed to it would be a waste of money. Someone's behaviour doesn't necessarily stop them from contracting it unless they take a vow of celibacy.

 

That's not a problem with my daughter's religion - the boys are equally determined to save themselves for their wife. I am not religious apart from being a devout atheist - but I think that's commendable. As I say I have no worries at all about her future. STD's can be ruled out for her.

 

I would never allow my child to be a guinea pig for something that hasn't been tested for long enough.

[clootie]

I would never allow my child to be a guinea pig for something that hasn't been tested for long enough.

 

Hmmm, thems my feelings too. Back then I was under time pressure to make a decision and wasn't happy doing so. When I was close to saying yes, there was something niggling away at me, I always listen to my gut instinct.

[squiffs]

It's not just about a child's moral compass though - anyone who has ever had unprotected sex has a high chance of being infected with hpv, even if they wait until they're married. They just issue it at a young age so it's got a higher likelihood of being effective. Vaccinating people already exposed to it would be a waste of money. Someone's behaviour doesn't necessarily stop them from contracting it unless they take a vow of celibacy.

 

That's not a problem with my daughter's religion - the boys are equally determined to save themselves for their wife. I am not religious apart from being a devout atheist - but I think that's commendable. As I say I have no worries at all about her future. STD's can be ruled out for her.

 

 

HPV carriers can be virgins too.

[PurpleTree]

It's 20 for a smear test here in Wales, then every 3 years. I do always wonder why it's so long in-between, I guess they just assume you'd get checked out if you had any funny symptoms?

 

I don't really know anything about the vaccine at all or what it guards against. I didn't know it could be of benefit to boys at all

[squiffs]

It's 20 for a smear test here in Wales, then every 3 years. I do always wonder why it's so long in-between, I guess they just assume you'd get checked out if you had any funny symptoms?

 

I don't really know anything about the vaccine at all or what it guards against. I didn't know it could be of benefit to boys at all

I'm not entirely sure why it's 3 years either, apart from to save money, perhaps the cost of annual smears is significantly higher than the cost of treatment when abnormal cells are found. In the US they recommend annual smears, but their system is privatised so they don't really worry about the costs. The vaccine is approved for use in boys, but the government is taking its time deciding if it's a cost effective approach.

[Valkyrie]

There are no std's in this family Squiffy - you may be different to my family so stop trying to be unpleasant to anyone who disagrees with you.

[squiffs]

There are no std's in this family Squiffy - you may be different to my family so stop trying to be unpleasant to anyone who disagrees with you.

I wasn't being unpleasant, I just really think, as difficult as it is, when parents make these decisions they need to put their attitudes to sex and possible behaviour to one side and decide it purely on its merits. You said you wouldn't use your daughter as a guinea pig, and that's fair enough - but that should imo be the only reason you'd need to give. I would never say 'your family' has stds in it, I think you've taken what I'm saying a bit personally, and in turn been a little bit rude about mine

[Alis girls]

After the age of 50 its every 5 yrs in the UK. The general consensous is if you've had negative smears for all or most of your life the risk of getting cervical cancer are very low. However many women confuse this type of cancer with cancer of the body of the uterus which is different altogether - this is why anyone with post menopausal bleeding (ie bleeding I think its 2 yrs after stoppage of periods - feel free to correct me any other nursing bods on here ) should see their GP ASAP. I am amazed how many women think its normal to get a "period" yrs after finishing periods - its not. Its a mine field - I think that screening in England, Scotland, wales and Ireland should be the same.

Many pts complain that they cant get annual smears esp if they are from abroad - why cos they pay for them in their own country. Freebie NHS - lets all jump on the band wagon. But thats another thread.

[squiffs]

After the age of 50 its every 5 yrs in the UK. The general consensous is if you've had negative smears for all or most of your life the risk of getting cervical cancer are very low. However many women confuse this type of cancer with cancer of the body of the uterus which is different altogether - this is why anyone with post menopausal bleeding (ie bleeding I think its 2 yrs after stoppage of periods - feel free to correct me any other nursing bods on here ) should see their GP ASAP. I am amazed h

Alow many women think its normal to get a "period" yrs after finishing periods - its not. Its a mine field - I think that screening in England, Scotland, wales and Ireland should be the same.

Many pts complain that they cant get annual smears esp if they are from abroad - why cos they pay for them in their own country. Freebie NHS - lets all jump on the band wagon. But thats another thread.

Alis girls, do you think that the increasing use of hormonal contraceptives which can stop periods altogether or make them very irregular would also warrant the gap between smears being revised? I've always wondered how women would necessarily spot the signs if on a contraceptive that knocked their cycles completely out of sync, and women are starting on these drugs younger and younger too. For eg, the implant and cerazette both really can mess up the biological rhythm a girl would normally be able to compare their 'irregularities' to...

[Valkyrie]

I wasn't being rude about your family at all - I said YOU might be different to my family. My opinion is different to yours - and we are all entitled to have different views but your little digs about my daughter's lifestyle of celibacy and the another comment that even virgins get hepatitis seems that I was being a target because you don't like my opinion. Stop the sniping.

[squiffs]

I wasn't being rude about your family at all - I said YOU might be different to my family. My opinion is different to yours - and we are all entitled to have different views but your little digs about my daughter's lifestyle of celibacy and the another comment that even virgins get hepatitis seems that I was being a target because you don't like my opinion. Stop the sniping.

I'm not targeting you at all, sorry if you feel that way. I don't have any digs to make about celibacy, at all, I was raised in a catholic family so I appreciate the virtues and ideas behind it. I'm just stating a fact that human papilloma virus is the most prevalent std in the world, and with all the goodwill and caution in the world, 80% of people will contract it in their lifetime. Even the most careful of us. Not being confident in the science of the vaccine is perfectly understandable and a brave choice to make when the popular opinion is to just accept science to be infallible. I just feel very strongly about the poor quality of sex education young people are given, especially in relation to abstinence.

[Alis girls]

There will always be "innocent " victims of STD's - I do worry about doing swabs on women only to find her partners been playing away - particularly bad if the woman has strong religious beliefs. It happens and destroys lives.

Squiffs - I do agree on the long acting contraceptives being used on esp young women - I worry re the injectable methods on the very young girls - however alternative in a girl who cant use pills correctly and ends up with an unwanted pregnancy are a big concern too. Many women use abortion as a contraceptive - not good and unsafe every operation carries a risk. Yes the pills can cause unusual bleeds - mirena coil causes spotting in some women injectable similar - it is a nightmare knowing what is the norm. I am not qualified enough to answer these questions - I always ask people to read the leaflet in the injections (assuming English is understood) and make sure any side effects they understand and how long they will last. There is no easy answer - sex ed in the UK is "Ooops, word censored!" - until we make young people feel better about themselves, and confident enough to wait till they feel they are in a loving relationship before having sex and I always adv young girls - if you feel old enough for sex they you are old enough to look after your body and have respect for it - until this happens these diseases will continue.

Every case is different - the best you can do is make sure they are safe.

[The Dogmother]

Boy am I glad that I no longer have a uterus to worry about

 

Currently smear recalls in the UK are every 3 years, which is far too long in my book. If you've had previous problems with abnormal smears/cells or treatment, then the recommendation is that you have yearly smears but (in the vast majority of cases) no-one tells you that

 

The fact is that both HPV and Chlamydia are very easy to catch (even more so that HIV) and certainly in the case of HPV, you don't actually need to have sex to contract it. I just wish that more youngsters were aware of this - it would save needless suffering and help prevent the spread of STDs.

 

A girlfriend died of cervical cancer some years back; it was only picked up when she went for a regular smear test; the previous smear (3 years before) was clear. By that stage it was pretty well advanced. She had only ever had one partner (her husband) and he had only ever had one previous partner... who had infected him with HPV it can be symptomless in men.

 

When the time comes I would make sure that my daughter had annual smears even if I had to pay for them myself.

[squiffs]

Such a sad situation, thanks for sharing that DM.

[The Dogmother]

While I believe that abstinence is the only sure way to steer clear, I realise that that it impractical in a lot of cases; one thing that that friend said to me is perhaps a strapline that the government ought to use in their campaign... 'when you sleep with someone, you effectively sleep with everyone they have ever had sex with'. Kind of brings the whole Russian roulette-ness of it home, doesn't it?

 

I clearly remember the first panic mongering when HIV 'went large' in the media in the early 80s in fact it is harder to catch than HPV, but again not solely spread by sexual activity.

[Tiggy]

smears are not done routienly for the under 25s because the cells on the cervix have not matured and you can get false positives that mean the young woman has to undergo unessarsary (sp) tests and treatment. Normal Ca cervix grows very slowly ie 15 - 20 years before the pre cancerous cells become cancer. There is a form that is much more aggressive and is fortuately very rare, these poor ladies would be very lucky if picked up by screening. HPV is indicated in over 90% of cervical cancers, most adults have been exposed to it at some time. 1000s of doses have been given around the world with very few problems. Any vaccine causes angst amongst parents but I have seen women young and old in terrible physical and emotional states due to genital cancer and if a vaccine that is known to be safe can prevent this then Im all for it.

[PurpleTree]

smears are not done routienly for the under 25s because the cells on the cervix have not matured and you can get false positives that mean the young woman has to undergo unessarsary (sp) tests and treatment. Normal Ca cervix grows very slowly ie 15 - 20 years before the pre cancerous cells become cancer. There is a form that is much more aggressive and is fortuately very rare, these poor ladies would be very lucky if picked up by screening. HPV is indicated in over 90% of cervical cancers, most adults have been exposed to it at some time. 1000s of doses have been given around the world with very few problems. Any vaccine causes angst amongst parents but I have seen women young and old in terrible physical and emotional states due to genital cancer and if a vaccine that is known to be safe can prevent this then Im all for it.

 

So how come they start smears at 20 in Wales & Scotland?

[Cinnamon]

Both of my girls,who are 16 & 18 have had a full STD test,both their choice to do it ,with no involvement from me.

 

My youngest went with a male friend to a clinic,as he was worried he might have something. He was backing out of the test & she said that she would have one too,to help him to overcome his worries.

I was really proud of her for doing this & for taking her health seriously.

 

My eldest was offered the test by my Doctor & she thought,why not?

 

They have both had the jab & I would not hesitate to treat any younger daughters I had (& all 3 tests were negative!)

[Tiggy]

smears are not done routienly for the under 25s because the cells on the cervix have not matured and you can get false positives that mean the young woman has to undergo unessarsary (sp) tests and treatment. Normal Ca cervix grows very slowly ie 15 - 20 years before the pre cancerous cells become cancer. There is a form that is much more aggressive and is fortuately very rare, these poor ladies would be very lucky if picked up by screening. HPV is indicated in over 90% of cervical cancers, most adults have been exposed to it at some time. 1000s of doses have been given around the world with very few problems. Any vaccine causes angst amongst parents but I have seen women young and old in terrible physical and emotional states due to genital cancer and if a vaccine that is known to be safe can prevent this then Im all for it.

 

So how come they start smears at 20 in Wales & Scotland?

 

no idea!! maybe political? at the moment as far as i knwo there is no clinical reason for it except to get young women used to the idea

[squiffs]

I have got myself tested after every relationship I've had has ended, as I was always told that it was wise to do that. That way, too, if you do get something, you know exactly when that happened (well not 'when', but which of your partners it was). I've always come back clean because I've spent the majority of my teenage years in relationships of 18 months or more, or used protection when not in a relationship. However, those tests don't include hpv, and I guess the first I'll know of it is in 3 years time when I get a pap smear. Then I'll have very little idea when or how long I've been infected. I think although a false positive could be stressful, the belt and braces approach it encourages can only do good. I don't see there being much marked difference between a 22 year old cervix and a 25 year old one, though.