How can I find my old pictures?

[freddie]

ES and DH have left fro the 2nd round, two days of uni visits, with the prospect of fee rises ringing in their ears as they drive off.

I don't know what to recommend to ES, the prospect of degree course, and likely 50k debt, or try to get an apprenticeship, with lower earning prospects in his future..

[merlina]

Well, being a lecturer, I am , of course, biased, but I think for most students University is very much worthwhile.

 

The qualification is on your CV for the rest of your life - and 'counts' for the rest of your life. I have seen *so* many friends hit middle age and be passed by for promotion etc time and time again because they don't have degrees and the younger people coming into the industry (across a wide variety of sectors) do. There's no reason to think that will change.

 

I'm also very much a believer in Uni as a 'good thing' for all round education, not just in the chosen subject, but the opportunity to meet such a broad range of people and develop hobbies, talents and learning in a broader range of subjects than you will find anywhere else.

 

Students also get that 'education for life' thing about job search and interview techniques and the opportunity to do work experience, travel and meet experts from a huge range of companies that you get nowhere else.

 

Having said all that, I am still shocked by the number of students who don't make anything like full use of their time at Uni. They don't attend classes, don't participate in anything they don't 'have' to go to; do the bare minimum to pass an assessment etc etc. Sometimes it's because they're not really interested in the subject - they've only done it because of parental pressure or it''s what they were best at at school. Sometimes it's because they are just too young and really should have taken a year or two out to 'grow up' a little.

 

The debt thing needs to be looked at in perspective. In some ways it's not a 'real' debt - you don't pay it back until you earn x amount and if you never earn much, it's written off. That's not to say I agree with it, I don't, but all the numbers still show that even with the debt you have much greater income with a degree than without one

[Egluntyne]

One of my sons wasn't schoolworthy and so left at 16' despite getting very respectable GCSE's. He did a plumbing apprenticeship, has no student debt and now has his own business. He earns more than his older brother, who is a solicitor. I'd recommend this route to anyone who is prepared to work hard, but isn't interested in academia. A degree is no guarantee of long term high earnings.

 

Having said all this, can I get him to fix the radiator in my downstairs loo, or the outside tap. Can I hecklerslike!

[Cinnamon]

One of my daughters is at Uni & she loves it . She forfeited a gap year in order to sneak in before the prices tripled last time. She is very academic & the life suits here, although she still has no real idea what she wants to do 'next'. She may well end up back at Waitrose with me for a while....

 

My youngest is a totally different case. She is really bright, but hated the structure of school & dropped out of college after 6 months. She was unemployed for about a year, but now works very hard as a full time bartender in a very well known bar in Reading. She has moved out 6 months ago & is happier living on her own for the moment. She works from 6pm - 6am sometimes, & I truly believe that she needed to do this. She has grown up fast & it has been good for her.

She is talking of re educating in a couple of years.

 

So no real answers for you. Some people love Uni, others just want to get out there & work.

It is a big decision, but if your child ends up at Uni & hates it, it is not the end of the world to drop out. Also not the end of the world to defer for a year or 2, work full time & get some cash behind you as a cushion.

[freddie]

Thank you, I shall be encouraging him to read these posts. He's really bright, but fairly sloth like now, having been fiercely competitive in his teens with Nat Squad windsurf.!

I worry about his level of motivation, vs the debt issue, Perhaps I need to let him find his own way, but he seems to need guidance from adults at this oh so difficult and much changing time in his life.. Glad I'm not a teenager now

[Ain't Nobody Here]

Both my sons are at Uni just now (2nd and 4th year). I too worried about their motivation to work but although they both seem to have dawdled through 1st year, just passing enough to get to 2nd year, they now seem to have grown up and ES especially, is now very motivated and working really hard.

 

I agree with the comment about it being more than the academic experience. Both my boys are now in flats which is forcing them to face up to responsibilities they just don't have at home. I don't think they join in with a lot of clubs etc at Uni but both are very keen cyclists and hill runners which is great.

 

They are obviously in the very lucky position of having no tuition fees (sorry ) but there are still considerable costs for rent/living expenses. They both have student loans but we have to top it up as rent is so expensive (although Stirling is actually quite cheap compared to most places).

 

Martin Lewis did a good report on why you shouldn't panic about student debt in England. I can't find the exact one but here's a current one explaining the true cost of student debt which looks really good.

 

I know of a few students who have started Uni and decided fairly quickly or even after 2 years that it's either not for them or they've changed course. It does seem to be very acceptable these days to do so, which is great if you're really not sure if it's for you.

 

Good luck!

[surfer_chicken]

I'm another biased towards university (in second year now). I was part of the first year to get the £9000 a year fees. Luckily my fees are only £6750, but most places went for the £9000. We were constantly told to think of it as an extra income tax rather than a loan or debt. You have to pay 9% when you're earning above £25,000 and it gets written off after 30 years. Us students post-fee rise actually got a better deal when it comes to the minimum income for paying fees back and how much you pay a month!

 

I looked for courses which included a years placement. There's quite a few out there. You normally have to attend uni for an extra year, but fees are generally reduced for your year in industry, you get paid and you get a heap of work experience in your degree subject! I've heard numerous stories saying you can end up with a job offer once you've finished your degree if they like you (though they are rumours). For most of the places I looked at this upped your degree to a masters as well

 

As other people have mentioned however, you need a lot of self motivation. I see all around me people who only go to compulsory sessions and hardly ever turn up for lectures. I don't know if that's more common in Scotland because most of them aren't paying fees, but from what I've heard from friends elsewhere I don't think so. If you're worried about their motivation then a year out doing work could be beneficial. I worked 9-5 over my long summer after my A levels and I think even that helped. When it comes down to it, the amount of hours you have to put in at university is less than you would for a 9 til 5 job, so it feels easier in comparison!

[chickencam]

I didn't go to uni and although I regret it now, I also realise that I was way too immature for uni life at that stage and wouldn't have made the best of it. My OH did and is a partner in a small law firm, he has never made big bucks and the last few years have been very tough. He declined a job in a large London firm at the beginning of his career, having done work experience there during his degree. He would have had a much higher salary but no quality of life. He enjoys his job and has worked his way up in the same firm over 25 years. Many law graduates seriously struggle to get training contracts now and end up working as para legals, which they could have trained to do on the job without uni.

 

Having said that our ED is currently doing a law degree at Bristol uni, she doesn't want to practice, but wanted an interesting academic degree. She loves uni life, has joined a varied group of societies and tried loads of new activities, not to mention made great friends. She has matured, so much too and is full of plans to set up her own business when she leaves uni. She has just accepted that her age group have had to choose to carry a debt into their working life, but nothing comes cheap these days. She has been shocked now that she is in second year how few people are turning up for lectures etc, she feels that she is paying for a service, so why wouldn't you use it.

 

DS has just done his application for next year, he wants to do a geography degree with a view to becoming a geography teacher. I too worry that although he is very motivated for his A levels, he is very lazy by nature and may end up sleeping through his degree course without us to drag him out of bed.

 

It is a difficult choice.

[sparkysmum]

Hope he's not thinking of architecture. My YS is doing 40 + hour weeks at uni AND all nighters till 5.00am several nights a week. Horrific workload. Positively cruel in fact.

[Luvachicken]

 

I looked for courses which included a years placement. There's quite a few out there. You normally have to attend uni for an extra year, but fees are generally reduced for your year in industry, you get paid and you get a heap of work experience in your degree subject!

 

Not all placements pay you

My daughter has friends at uni doing law stuff and they didn't get paid and they had to pay for her accommodation.

[freddie]

My friend 's son did what you have , Scrambled, and is 22 with a house, as well.. (and he's still single...??) He did electrician. What did you do?

[chickencam]

Interesting, I suppose that is what I did too nearly 30 years ago, started work with Boots at 18, the manager decided that I was too well educated to be a shop assistant which was the the job that I had applied for. Instead he offered me a job as a trainee dispenser and I then did a two year course and qualified as a member of the society of Apothecaries, ie I was a qualified pharmaceutical dispenser. Boots also did their own lower level qualification. I didn't really think of it as an apprenticeship but I suppose that is what it was.

[keyhole kate]

I guess all depends on whether they need a degree for there chosen career if they do then there choice is simple regardless of fees and debts. One of my DD's is a teacher one DD is in year three of a nursing degree as both careers require degrees they had no choice my DS is an RAF air Tech he was academic enough to do a degree but chose to do apprenticship and work up the ranks instead as he wasn't interested in going to Uni. ED now thirty four is currently doing OU degree as she now regrets not making the most of the oppertunities she had at eighteen.

 

University fees and debts are a drop in the ocean when based on potential earnings over your working life time DD age thirty two earns more than OH who has forty years service and served aprenticeship No contest really

[sadietoo]

Whilst the numbers are large (and in my opinion unjustifiable especially considering all those imposing them didn't have to pay them ) I really wouldn't let the student loan bother you too much. As others have said it's an additional burden of tax in practice. Ho hum. If there is a clear apprenticeship opportunity which provides a training not in direct contest with graduates eg trades then fine. For other jobs you probably have to accept that without a degree it's going to be harder to get some placements (for example I believe some of the top five accountants offer training positions for A level students bit they will cherry pick and most of their new trainees are graduates).