A heavy heart

[SueSteve]

Hi,

I am asking this because it is a hot topic on another forum I belong to.

A member had all her chickens killed last night by a fox.

The fox jumped over a 7ft fence, and then dug a hole 5 and a half foot deep down and up into a run.

Killing 7 chickens, but leaving 11 carcasses (yes, I am confused on that one).

She now wants to contact the hunt to come near to where she lives to kill the foxes!

 

So what I want to know is how you feel about chickens being killed by foxes.

Do you accept that it is something that happens?

You try your best to make it difficult for the fox to get in, but somehow it manages it.

Do you instantly want to kill all the foxes?

 

I will try my utmost to deter Mr Fox, but if he happens to kill my chickens it would be very sad, but I wouldn't want to seek revenge. A person killing a fox, to me, is worse than a fox killing a chicken. It is an instinct for the foxes to kill. But we have a choice.

Just wondered how other feel on the subject.

 

Also if a fox can jump that high, and dig a hole that deep then an eglu stands no chance against a fox attack!

Thanks,

Sue

[Tessa the Duchess]

Wow, I knew foxes could climb over 7ft fences with no problem, but I

am quite shocked that they dig that deep, I assumed they dug smallish

holes a bit like dogs do. But I am with you on my attitude to foxes

killing my chickens, they are only doing what is natural and they have

every right to do so, even if I would be very upset. I am very against

fox hunting, killing an animal shouldn't be sport or a cause to dress up

and ride noisily around the countryside. But just my opinion.

 

Tessa.

[helenp]

I would be horrifed if a fox killed my chooks, but it is nature, just as cats can kill them. As fox hunting is now illegal I would suggest that she did not get the local hunt over as it would only take one call to the police & they would all be in serious trouble.

[Snowy]

I would be horrifed if a fox killed my chooks, but it is nature, just as cats can kill them. As fox hunting is now illegal I would suggest that she did not get the local hunt over as it would only take one call to the police & they would all be in serious trouble.

But hunting isn't actually illegal - it is illegal to hunt with the intention of using hounds to kill. Most hunts now just use an eagle owl instead - that is not illegal.

[Olly]

sorry to be sceptical - a fox jumping a 7 foot fence is entirely likely, but digging five and a half foot down ... I can't believe that. They will tunnel and dig to get into a chicken-run, but they are not designed for digging like rabbits or moles.

 

I am sorry your friend lost her chickens, but I would suspect that there was a weakness of some sort in the run. As for the hunting ... I'd be devastated if I lost my chooks but I'd blame myself, not the fox, who is only doing what comes naturally. Research has shown that if a fox is removed, another one will move into the same territory within a matter of weeks. They are part of the fauna of our countryside and it's impossible to eradicate them entirely.

 

The best way to prevent chickens being taken is to ensure they are in a secure run. The Eglu is as good as you can get, in my view.

[SueSteve]

Thanks for the replies.

I am now starting to be very skeptical about what she is saying, the fox got to the chickens in daylight, while she and the children were in, she let them out at 7am, they were gone by 9.30.

 

I am interested in your replies, I too would blame it on myself, I think. And thanks for confirming that the eglu (and cube?) is likely to be the best detterent!

 

At the allotment the other allotmenteers were moaning about Badgers, birds, mice etc. saying that they eat the sweetcorn and other produce. I had a chat with my husband, and we decided that if the badgers ate teh sweetcorn, and a couple of mice ate some courgettes, and the birds had some beans, then we would be happy to share. Not that I would be happy to share my hens with a fox, but you have to live knowing that other animals exist and that you are part of their lives as much as they are part of yours.

[Egluntyne]

she let them out at 7am, they were gone by 9.30.

 

Early morning and dusk are the most likely times for a fox attack.......although of course it can happen at any time of day.

[Gallina]

In the morning before 9am seems to be the peak time for Omlet chickens to be killed by foxes, so I don't doubt that part of the story. Urban chickens in particular seem to like early dawn, when it is light enough to see well, but people aren't up.

 

If you have light sandy soil, a fox can dig fairly easily: my nextdoor neighbours have had all their chickens taken twice by a fox tunnelling into their large run overnight, so it is possible.

 

If you have chickens taken by foxes, you will feel murderous towards them. For me, finding the bodies of nextdoor's beautiful purebred hens half-buried in my garden was as upsetting as when one of mine was killed by a fox. You will say it is natural: but so is a tiger eating your baby.

 

I agree that it is best to make your run very secure so it doesn't happen. And you must close your Eglu/Cube at night. Now that it is so dark in the morning, you won't have to get up early to do this.

[superjules]

We had our second fox visit last night. The first visit was on the night we got the chickens, I think the fox smelt they were there and came to investigate. Last night I left the eglu open because we are going to be away overnight this weekend so I will have to leave the eglu open and I wanted to see how the chickens reacted. I can only presume we had another visit last night because the smell of chickens was stronger having left the eglu door open.

[chickencam]

We have a lot of foxes around here, but there is a busy main road to one side of our garden and a busy lane to the other and we have a good hedge and the garden is totally enclosed by a 6ft wall with another foot of trellis on the top to deter the chickens from flapping out into the road.

 

Our garden is heavy clay so I think that a fox would have trouble digging under the eglu run.

 

I would be sad if a fox took our girls but we have two cats who bring mice and birds home, so I think it would be hypocritical to seek revenge when they are only doing what comes naturally.

[Guest]

I am a bird lover, have feeders and things for the birds dotted all round the garden. I hate cats. Cats to date have killed countless birds in our garden, leave nasty piles of 'stuff' around the garden (and NO they don't always bury it!) and destroyed expensive plants. I bought a costly Japanese Maple, caught sight of a cat ripping the branches off for fun! Despite the fact I can't stand the things, I'd never ever harm one, we just try and deter them as best we can but it's usually fruitless. What annoys me most is that people don't have to have cats, it's a personal choice and we're inflicted with other peoples' personal choice! If you let a dog roam free like that, at least the dog warden would come and pick it up!

 

Foxes are wild so they're less of a pest, IMO, than cats are. At least they have a sort of right to be there, if you understand me.

 

My point is, domesticated cats cause me more problems than a wild creature because they have less, if not no right to be in my garden in the first place and there's so many of them on the estate where I live, they're a menace and there's nothing I can do about it because they're somebody's pet!

[xsoggyx]

I am sure the Eglu and run is designed as best as possible. I have Patio slabs around mine for that extra protection.

 

I also have Solar lights around it and at night it looks like Stalag 17. I am sure if they could they would be s"Ooops, word censored!"ing a cup across the run for when I come home from work as they are always itching to get out. I did check there Eglu to see if the coffee stove had been moved and found a hole in the egg nest but relaised it is part of the design. I cant beleive I am reading too much into this so I will shut up and get on with some work

[Leicester_H]

they are only doing what is natural and they have

every right to do so, even if I would be very upset. I am very against

fox hunting, killing an animal shouldn't be sport or a cause to dress up

and ride noisily around the countryside. But just my opinion.

 

Thats basically my view too.

 

H

[Guest]

I am sure the Eglu and run is designed as best as possible. I have Patio slabs around mine for that extra protection.

 

I also have Solar lights around it and at night it looks like Stalag 17. I am sure if they could they would be s"Ooops, word censored!"ing a cup across the run for when I come home from work as they are always itching to get out. I did check there Eglu to see if the coffee stove had been moved and found a hole in the egg nest but relaised it is part of the design. I cant beleive I am reading too much into this so I will shut up and get on with some work

 

 

we're getting 3 ex battery chooks and I've been agonising over what to call them- After reading your post, I wonder if I should call them Tom, Dick and Harry!

[Leicester_H]

I am sure if they could they would be s"Ooops, word censored!"ing a cup across the run for when I come home from work as they are always itching to get out.

 

One of mine s"Ooops, word censored!"es her beak over the bars - sounds just like a cup on prison bars!!

Does make me feel guilty, which, I assume, is the intention.

 

H

[Egluntyne]

sounds just like a cup on prison bars!!

 

What an interesting life you must have led!

[Leicester_H]

sounds just like a cup on prison bars!!

What an interesting life you must have led!

 

LIKE IN THE FILMS !!!!!!!!

[Egluntyne]

I know....just kidding.

[Ziggy]

Sounds like an odd story doesn't it... a fox jumping so high, digging so deep, and killing 7 chickens yet leaving 11 carcasses... seems more like science fiction than your average fox attack...

 

As to cats being a pain in other people's gardens, and them being such a nuisance because they are somebody else's choice as a pet, well my view is that living in cities, we agree to be surrounded by people, cats, urban foxes, cars, and all kinds of birds and squirrels. We have fruit trees in our garden that are permanently raided by birds and squirrels, we have foxes coming to bother our chooks, and I have five wonderful cats that go in my garden, other people's gardens, and kill birds and mice when they get the chance... and if anyone would complain about them to be honest I'd just tell them to move away...

I do not mean for this to be aggressive, but in my view in a city humans are the biggest destroyers, polluters and nuisance. Next to humans, cats and foxes are angels. As to expensive plants or anything being damaged by animals, I find that if someone is aware that animals visit their garden they have to plan what they plant/do/keep in that garden accordingly. The hunting is an instinct and although I love birds and mice, there is nothing wrong with cats killing them, and definitely nothing more wrong with that than with people eating meat... one might say cats kill for fun, but humans eating meat is not essential either, so that's a choice (not trying to attack meat-eaters here, just trying to put this 'cats are pain' in perspective), and no morally superior to cats hunting as per their instinct.

Oh and by the way, guess what... those 'nasty' birds in my garden keep eating worms!!! And insects too!! Isn't there anyone to decide to call them a pain because of their feeding and instincts, is no one going to stick up for poor wormies and insects, who all fulfill important roles out there too?

I like all animals, and find it is important for humans to respect all of them in their own right,and in the way the natural world works all together, and it is nice to hear that people here who are irritated by such or such specie also admit they wouldn't harm them... We have chickens, rats, birds, mice, foxes, my cats, a few other cats, and even the neighbour's dogs regularly visiting our garden, and it wouldn't occur to me to complain about any of them!!!

[lozkate]

Contentious subject in rural areas! Some still hunt with dogs in full knowledge that their case will be high profile if they get caught.

 

It does seem to bring some sort of macarbre balance to the procedings that it is a bird that replaces the foxhounds. That said I would hazard a guess that the fox would 'prefer' the dogs' more direct and rapid approach.

 

On the subject of another fox moving in when on is removed that is certainly true but with population more thinly spread surely less activity is seen on average?

 

Whether you like it or not its still legal to remove foxes by shooting. Oh and BTW a fox will kill for fun and remove any predator it can including domestic cats.

 

There is a balance to be struck I think.

 

Loz

[Guest]

"I find that if someone is aware that animals visit their garden they have to plan what they plant/do/keep in that garden accordingly"

 

why should I? Cat owners should keep their cats indoors then. Or should I let next door's dog come and defecate in my garden and not mind that either?

 

Nothing else that visits my garden destroys or defiles it like the local feline population. I shouldn't have to design my garden around somebody elses pet. Sorry but that's ridiculous and a lot of what you have said is what I've heard a thousand times from cat owners trying to defend their pets. I stand by what I say, they are a nuisance and not natural fauna such as birds or foxes. They've been introduced by humans and are a pain in the b/side.

[Gallina]

I agree with you, Poet.

 

I don't understand why cat owners think it is acceptable for their pets to defecate over other people's gardens. Everyone would be furious if dogs did the same.

 

I can, however, put up with their mess, as it is only when you have seeds planted that it does any permanent damage. But I can't bear the way they slaughter our songbirds. I think that cats should be required by law to wear collars with bells: that would help.

[Guest]

I hate finding dead birds in the garden that clearly have been mauled by cats but what's worse is finding one half alive, knowing that it won't survive the night. Heartbreaking. If cats were wild fauna and they HAD to eat birds to survive then that would be a different story but they're not and they don't.

 

Anyway, I'd best shut up now as this is supposed to be about foxes and chickens and I don't want to get into trouble

[Ziggy]

Poet, my point in talking about planning around the animals that visit your garden is only about saving you the disappointment, cost and aggravation when animals cause damage. I understand it is frustrating to see something you like and have worked on destroyed, and that's why I suggested planning accordingly, because realistically I don't think anyone can fully avoid cats, or foxes or other animals for that matter coming to their garden once they've started. It is not easy for cat owners to control where their cats go, cats climb walls and trees and so on, which dogs can't do (though my neighbours' dog jumps on top of their shed and over the wall on top of my shed and then down and gets stuck in my garden and has to wait for me to rescue her).

I did not mean to offend, I just tend to respect and like every animal because what they do is their nature not their choice, even if we think an animal destroys something 'for fun' it does it out of instinct, not out of intention to be evil... My dad used to have terrible problems with a number of cats damaging his plants, and it drove him mad to spend money on things that got damaged instantly by stray cats (not all cats are actually owned, many that visit gardens in some areas are stray), and he used to try and harm them but they were always too fast for thim thankfully, then one day (because of me I must admit) he adopted a cat himself and realised there is not much anyone can do about their cats going into other people's gardens whenever they are let out. I keep my cats in a lot, but they do go out at times and one of them likes to roam. I'd always be happy to pay for any damage they do anywhere, but really it is not possible to control them the way dogs can be controlled, unless they are always kept in, which many animal welfare societies wouldn't be happy with.

Again, I didn't mean for it to sound perfect or fair, am just trying to be realistic when I suggest to plan according to the animals, to save yourself the cost and frustration. I realise it's not an easy issue, and I didn't mean to cause offense.

As you said, this was meant to be about foxes, so maybe we should stop our cat debate

[chickencam]

Live and let live guys