Warm boot recommendations please

[Blackrocksrock]

That was awful - and its why I want my own eggs so I know where they came from - we used to get old colswold legbar free range eggs and burford browns from Tesco but they have stopped them and I dont know where to get them now - Found a local supplier of really fresh eggs instead.

[The Dogmother]

could claret or cinnamon or one of the lovely mods suggest it to Jane is it?

 

Try PMing Buffie - she's our link to the BHWT. I haven't emailed Jane myself in a while.

[Couperman]

It certainly makes a point!

 

I am not a big fan of shock tactic campaigning regardless of the cause, I think the BHWT will achieve far more than this advert ever will.

 

People who can afford not to eat battery eggs generally don't. So I don't see the point in bullying people who have to choose between the welfare of a chicken and that of their own children.

 

The focus should be on the Supermarkets to make proper egg production a viable option for farmers. If they choose to put up the prices of things only relatively well off folks can afford then I can live with that.

 

As far as putting it on the telly! There was recently an ancient 'go to work on an egg' advert banned because it promoted an unbalanced diet! They only wanted to show it for nostalgia, and obviously publicity. So i can't see this one making the slot after the six o'clock news can you?

 

I know people feel strongly about animal welfare but some are prepared to kill people for the sake of a lab rat. Weird.

 

I dont disagree with the message, but there are better ways to do it.

 

Kev.

[Guest]

i disagree, i think this will make some people sit up and take notice where their apathy probably has held them back before. I think it will have the same affect as those drink drive adverts where the little girls is lying on the side of the road with broken limbs.

 

Sometimes people need a bit of a shake. You can tell someone till your blue in the face about the horrors of battery farming and you can see their eyes glaze over- shock tactics are needed sometimes.

 

I'm on a very low income, I don't work due to a medical condition so I'm very careful with money and there's still no way on this earth I'd buy battery eggs. I save money elsewhere on smart price veg, make my own bread and cook everything from scratch.

 

I'm sorry but there really is no excuse to buy battery eggs!

[Couperman]

The drink drive one's work because they target drink drivers, who are breaking the law and risking peoples lives. The root cause of the problem.

 

Buying eggs is not illegal nor dangerous to other people. Yes, it would be better if there were no such thing as battery hen farms. I just think the pressure should be applied where it matters that's all. And I think the BHWT is doing it better.

 

Kev.

[Guest]

the BHWT do a wonderful job but ultimately, people need to stop buying battery eggs then there will be no battery farms and a lot of people have never heard of the BHWT, I hadn't until I decided to get chickens but I knew about battery farms, just not quite how horrible they were!

 

I do believe shock tactics have their place in raising awareness and making people think.

 

That's my opinion and I respect your opinion too, I just don't totally agree with it.

 

all the best

 

xxxx

Edited November 5, 2007 by Guest

[Couperman]

The advert would never be allowed to be shown mainstream anyhow.

 

OK, lets agree to not quite agree rather than disagree!

 

All the best too!

 

Kev.

[Guest]

The sad fact is, it is demand for eggs that fuels battery farming!

 

There just arn't enough free range producers to supply everyone.

 

Years ago every family would keep their own cow/goat for milk and eventually meat... Every family would also keep some form of poultry to produce their own eggs and meat.

 

As the population has been rising and villages became towns, towns became citys etc. It has not been possible, due to the lack of land and lifestyle choices, for each family to keep their own livestock.

 

And hence the farming industry started to take off to fullfil the demand. So dairy/meat and battery hen farms started to appear. And like any business although animal wefare is a priority, so is cutting produce costs and making a profit.

 

There is alot to be said for the way we live today. (I prefer the way people used to live.) And I am doing my best to get their and become as self sufficient as possible. For example keeping my own poultry and growing my own fruit and veg. I have even started to trade with fellow local producers!

 

It is a huge lifestyle change but food & drink has never tasted so good.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Guest

[The Dogmother]

Good point OffSpring.

 

My Italian grand-folks used to keep (in this country) rabbits and hens for eggs and meat, and they grew lots of their own veggies too, epecially in the war. I'd like the space and time to be more self-sufficient....one day.....

[Ziggy]

Personally speaking, I certainly hope it doesn't get on the tv, cause my daughter would be thoroughly upset by it... My worry with such shock techniques is they will strike a chord and upset everyone who already cares, and not make much of a difference to people who don't... Showing pictures of live battery hens in cages would make reality sink better with people who are ready to pay attention and become more aware, than such an unrealistic, shocking add...

I understand the aim of the add and I am all in favour of animal welfare... I just agree with the fact that the bhwt seem to give the problem thorough consideration and understanding... as other people have said in various places and posts, farmers would most likely be happy to switch to free range if they were sure their product would sell, and while us lot here are all happy to not buy battery eggs, many people wouldn't give a damn and just want cheap food, either because they have no concern for animal welfare, or because they can't afford the better eggs. Some of us might think that we'd rather do without eggs that buy battery eggs, but not everyone thinks like that.

 

The one thing I have learnt from the bhwt, that stupidly enough I didn't think of before, is to look out for 'disguised' battery eggs, ie those appearing in all other products, from mayonnaise to cake... they list manufacturers who only use free range eggs, and I will definitely adapt my shopping list to make sure I do not unwillingly support the battery eggs market, as I had been doing till now. I will also look more into their suggestions to email and write to relevant people at those manufacturers that do use battery eggs, as they say that the more people write to politely request products containing free range eggs, the more the shops/manufacturers are likely to consider it...

[The Dogmother]

I couldn't have put it better myself Ziggy

[buffie]

If you joined this forum and found out about the battery hen and BHWT, then I have done what I set out to do here.

 

I first heard about BHWT in 2005 and brought it to the forum (before my official role) now everyone who joins becomes aware and friends here have helped raise this issue time and time again. You all have a role in the change in egg production.

 

Publicity is hotting up with Jamie Oliver's book and we work hard behind the scenes to promote the change of egg production and the British farmer. There's more to come.

 

Animal liberation use shock and extreme measures. This does not help the hen in a cage. BHWT will always be different in their approach

 

 

Love to see the debate on here and you all telling someone makes a difference

 

BBx

[Olly]

The one thing I have learnt from the bhwt, that stupidly enough I didn't think of before, is to look out for 'disguised' battery eggs, ie those appearing in all other products, from mayonnaise to cake... they list manufacturers who only use free range eggs, and I will definitely adapt my shopping list to make sure I do not unwillingly support the battery eggs market, as I had been doing till now. ..

 

Me too, Ziggy! I have bought free-range eggs for years, but never thought about the products that use eggs until I read about it on here. I'm now a lot more careful.

[Guest]

I've read the BHWT web site several times and what you do is amazing but what are you doing to change the attitude of the general public who don't know you exist? (and that's a lot of people) I know you work closely with farmers but until we decided to get chickens, I'd never heard of the BHWT and neither have many of my friends and family who I've told about where we got our chickens from. It's generally people who are already involved with poultry that know about the BHWT.

 

I think videos like this are important in raising public awareness of just how cruel battery farms are, at the very least it would get people talking. People get de-sensitised to hearing about battery hens and sometimes a swift metaphorical kick up the backside does some good.

 

You say it doesn't do any good, what are your reasons for saying this?

 

Also, what are the BHWT doing to stop people buying battery eggs because until there is no market for them, they'll always be there and it's people who are not in the know that buy them.

 

What you seem to be trying to do is take the eggs away from the consumer by trying to work with farmers to get them to change their ways of production but isn't it also important to take the consumer away from the eggs so there is no market for battery eggs?

Edited November 6, 2007 by Guest

[The Dogmother]

Not speaking for Buffie, or the BHWT here at all, but from a personal view.

 

The BHWT is a relatively small organisation, which sticks to what it does best - recsuing and re-homing ex-battery hens. They deliberately choose not to take a more 'militant' stance because that's just not their 'thing'. Jane Howarth seems to spread the word in her own gentle, persuasive way.

 

I'm not condemning, or applauding any approach here, just trying (somewhat inadequately) that there are horses for courses and each organisation has it's own style.

 

We can all help in our own way, whether by re-homing hens ourselves, making donations to the BHWT, helping out at rescues or spreading the word...small bricks amke a wall

[Guest]

you're dead right Clare and I totally applaud what the BHWT do but there are some people that seem to be saying that the video and its message isn't helpful and we should leave the job to the BHWT.

 

I think BOTH are important.

 

 

**edit** when you talk about animal liberation, it conjures up images of people in masks breaking into places to free animals or causing trouble in one way or another and that I don't agree with those tactics but I do think that this video is clever, shocking, powerful and perhaps just what some of the more apathetic, unaware people need to have their eyes opened.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Guest

[Christian]

Also, what are the BHWT doing to stop people buying battery eggs because until there is no market for them, they'll always be there and it's people who are not in the know that buy them.

 

The BHWT are a charity who rely on public donations. As far as I am aware there do not receive any funding from Government and certainy none from food producers.

 

They do amazing work and try to educate people as best they can. They have no budget to advertise their cause. They do their best with the limited resources they have.

 

You ask what are they doing to stop people from buying battery eggs? It is up to the public to make informed choices about the food they buy.

 

I, for one, have never bought battery eggs and have always been conscious of the 'hidden eggs' in food. How many of us really look at everything we eat??

 

If we knew all that went on with food production, restaurants, hotels, cafe, bars etc, trust me, you would never eat out again.

 

The BHWT is gaining more attention, but slowly. It takes an emormous amount of pressure to get the public to change their views.

[Guest]

It is up to the public to make informed choices about the food they buy.

 

It takes an emormous amount of pressure to get the public to change their views.

 

exactly, which is why I think the video is useful.

[Guest]

anyway, i'm off to spend some time with my girls.

 

ttfn

x

[The Dogmother]

I think that we can all do our bit here, by whatever means suits us. Some of us will prefer a low-key approach, whereas others will prefer something more along the lines of the video. I chose both - I support the BHWT wholeheartedly, but also posted the video in my blog and emailed it to friends, who I felt needed a wake up call.

 

I don't feel that good work needs publicising or attention - we just need to get on with it and support the organisations we feel need it, in the way that each of us feels comfortable with.

[CatsCube]

Right Im going to admit something here, prior to looking into chicken keeping I knew very little about battery eggs, in fact in my nievity I didnt think it was allowed anymore, I thoughts the 'lowest' they go now was barn eggs or something. I knew pretty much nothing about the conditions or how they were killed for dog food etc after. As a result I just bought any old eggs in the supermarket without really looking, I enjoy food but do not have a very refined palete and an egg is an egg to me and I just bought the cheapest. However its this site, and adverts like that, which have shown me the error of my ways and I will be a lot more carefull about what I buy in the future, plus I was probably under the misconception that free range would be a lot more expensive when in reality its not. I have also never eaten or bought veal since finding out about the animals poor living conditions

 

I have also posted this add on another forum I use (non chicken), and someone has responded the same way saying they just bought what was cheap and never really knew what was going on. In future they will now also buy free range.

 

I also often dont agree with shock advertising, and their is nothing I hate more than when I get RSPCA post and the like, where they have wasted money sending out letters and pens and the like, with horrific images expecting you to donate £2 a month, which pays for more mail shots, and the salaries of call centres who then are phoning you up asking for more money, and somewhere down the line 2p of your origional donation might reach its cause.

 

The way advertising like this is different is that it may just may make some people look into it more, see whats really going on and change their buying habbits very slightly so that this type of farming dies out in favour of more ethical farming.

 

Unfortunatly the only way we will really see a difference is by stop promoting cheap as best. We all have it ingrained in our heads that everything should be a bargin, in all aspects of our lives from food, to clothing, appliances etc we should get the cheapest, we put presure on manufacturers to cut production costs, whether by using sweat shop foreign labour, unethically farmed produce and harsh chemicals etc. What ever happened to people buying quality? Now we all want as much as possible for minimal cost and minimun convenience. Ridiculous living costs in the UK espacially force both parents to work, so children are not nurtured at home by their mothers, and stuck in nurseries at a few months old, we lose all sense of family with no time to spend together, we come home from our 9-5 (or later) to tired to prepare healthy nutritious dinners in favour of something we can just bung in the oven, full of cancer causing chemicals, before collapsing in front of the TV or drinking ourselves into a stupour in an attempet to feel some sort of release.

 

And on that masive tangent I will go away again and have a lie down and reflect on what a misserable existance we have all become.

 

Perhaps I will emigrate to some far fling tribe away from civilization.

[Rhapsody]

I've e-mailed this vid to a load of my mates with a request for them to forward it. I used to be strict veggie cos there was no option to obtain ethically-reared meat back in the day, now that has radically changed I only eat free-range organic produced in the UK. Battery hens break my heart especially now I have my own hens who are so funny and live such a rich life out in the garden in the sunshine.

But you cant force people to have ethics and morals, you cant force them to spend an extra 20p on eggs and 20p less on Sunny D, its a toughie!

 

BTW, one person cant make a difference? Good job no-one said that to Nelson Mandela eh?

[The Dogmother]

BTW, one person cant make a difference? Good job no-one said that to Nelson Mandela eh?

 

Or Gandhi!

 

Every little bit helps and each person we tell may pass on the information and change their own lives... it all adds up.

[buffie]

Also, what are the BHWT doing to stop people buying battery eggs because until there is no market for them, they'll always be there and it's people who are not in the know that buy them.

 

The BHWT are a charity who rely on public donations. As far as I am aware there do not receive any funding from Government and certainy none from food producers.

 

They do amazing work and try to educate people as best they can. They have no budget to advertise their cause. They do their best with the limited resources they have.

 

You ask what are they doing to stop people from buying battery eggs? It is up to the public to make informed choices about the food they buy.

 

I, for one, have never bought battery eggs and have always been conscious of the 'hidden eggs' in food. How many of us really look at everything we eat??

 

If we knew all that went on with food production, restaurants, hotels, cafe, bars etc, trust me, you would never eat out again.

 

The BHWT is gaining more attention, but slowly. It takes an emormous amount of pressure to get the public to change their views.

 

The official launch of BHWT was 2005, not sure if anyone is aware of that on the forum. It took time and patience to get there and believe me it's grown rapidly.

 

Thanks Christian for the above

 

The BHWT uses the rescue and rehoming for education purposes, it's not just about rescues and retirement, as that wouldn't change farming for the future The plight of the humble hen is brought to the publics attention through this process. We're at Jimmy's farm now and we've got enormous support coming from other areas. Exciting things on the horizon that I can't divulge. Yet.

 

 

Keep talking about hidden eggs please, the hidden egg is the battery egg that sells. People aren't aware but you can change that.

 

BBx

Edited November 6, 2007 by Guest

[Guest]

But you cant force people to have ethics and morals, you cant force them to spend an extra 20p on eggs and 20p less on Sunny D, its a toughie!

 

 

 

it's not about that, IMO, it's about raising awareness to those who quite probably don't have a clue what they are unwittingly contributing to. I'm not out to force anyone, just make them aware and open their eyes.

 

You can't force them to care but you can remind them they do care, deep down! Apathy is a terrible thing. I bet some people would see that and think "God, is this what really happens!?". Sometimes it takes an image like that to wake people up.