Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I eat lamb so I don't see the difference in eating a baby calf that has been reared ethically and humanely. I'd rather eat rose veal than for the calf to be killed at birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I edited my post Poet. Im sorry but I dont agree at all to veal...in my own personal opinion there is no need for baby cows to be eaten...there is enough meat out there for all meat eaters to enjoy without having to eat veal. I dont mean to offend its just my opinion.....I have always had this opinion on veal. The thing is that the calves will continue to be born and killed because they are necessary for the dairy industry. By creating a market for veal these calves could have a few more weeks of life and then die and be consumed rather than incinerated. If we drink milk and eat dairy products then it is maybe our duty to eat veal? Jo I dont eat meat so I suppose its the vegetarian in me speaking , I would never eat veal or buy it. I understand what you are saying about them being shot etc, but surely the carcasses could be used for animal food rather than being eaten? Its just a picture in my mind of baby calves I cant get out my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I'm feeling really left out here. What am I going to change You could buy up all the vegetables that are the 'wrong shape' which the supermarkets reject. I try not to buy any vegetables and to grow my own. I've just ordered the potatoes and my seeds for next year. lovely - I don't care what shape they are, and don't reject any (well, if I do, they go to the chickens). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Are your knitting needles organically sourced from sustainable forests? Now thats an interesting one. I'm using bamboo needles that I bought online from the bamboo knitting centre. I will have a look and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 i am feeling really depressed after reading the various threads today, I think it's called 'weltschmerz', I'm going to bed night night xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooner.girl Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Calves are one of the loveliest baby animals God put on this earth. Hand feeding calves is such a lovely peaceful experiance, (until they tred on your foot! ) I love watching them gurgle their milk and get it all round their face's, they have beautiful long eyelashes and big brown eyes. Awwww.... I do miss it See how cute! I don't think i could eat Veal - but then i eat beef, lamb, chicken and pork - if i liked vegtables i'd be a vegetarian, but as i don't very much then i have to eat meat or i would live entirely on chocolate... But its organic, free range for me all the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomaxsmith Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 but surely the carcasses could be used for animal food rather than being eaten? Kill it, cook it, eat it was saying that it was not worth the cost to the farmer of taking the calves off the farm - it would cost them money to take them to market to sell them for a pound or two. These were beautiful, organic calves. For some unexplained reason, being organic made them even less desirable. They also showed 2 standard calves - one was fat enough to be wanted for veal on the continent so went off in a lorry but the other was skinny so got slaughtered for the small amount of meat it had that could go for processed meals and pet food. Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Is that your new siging Helen? Tommy Moo-ney! I'll get my coat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 This is a great discussion! The whole thing has served to make me more aware of just what goes on behind the scenes that we never get told about. We have become so detached from our food that we really haven't a clue about most of it. I was horrified about the calves situation. I don't like the idea of slaughtering calves either, but far rather create a demand for them as a an unfortunate by product of milk production and give them a decent life prior to slaughter. I think organic are less popular because it's the natural diet that creates the rose flesh. Popular demand calls for the pale, white flesh of a milk fed calf. I feel very strongly that fads and fashions in human taste experiences should not be a good excuse for ill treating animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhapsody Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Why doesn't ASDA pay income tax? As some have said its because they are owned by wal-mart and trade accordingly. I think its obscene that we all pay VAT in this country for pretty much everything and ASDA are raking in British money and not putting a single penny back into Britain. All the British emloyees of ASDA pay their taxes! ASDA didnt invent the loophole but its just appauling practise, and I wont support it. 'World pain' eh Poet yes I think we all know about how that feels..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I've been out - and come back to several pages' worth of this very valuable and supportive discussion. The food we buy is too cheap. We are not paying the proper price for food Dan - I entirely agree with you. I have said somewhere else on here recently - maybe even this thread - that I want to pay a fair price for everything I buy. So I won't buy supermarket milk because supermarkets pay farmers less per litre than it costs to produce. I have mine delivered each week from Riverford, cutting out the middle man all together. I only buy fairly traded chocolate, bananas, tea, coffee, cocoa and sugar. My thinking is 'if it's not fairly traded, then it must be unfairly traded and I don't want to support that. I don't eat meat myself but buy organic and free-range meat from DevonRose for the rest of the family. I too have great reservations about Lamb, but I understand now that lambs are actually quite old when they are slaughtered. I would however prefer to buy mutton, but it's not readily available. I also believe strongly that if an animal is giving up its life to feed us, then we owe it great respect. Wasting any part of that animal is insulting to it. We should be duty-bound to use as close to all of it as is possible. Sorry to go on a bit, but I had a lot to catch up on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnrob Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I blame the supermarkets and we no longer have any choice but to buy from them. Wolverhampton City Centre does not have a greengrocer or a fishmonger and we have just two butchers. I agree. I have just looked on www.freerangereview.com to find our nearest free range organic butcher and it's 16 miles away Am now also thinking about milk. We've bought organic supermarket milk for a while but I'm now thinking about trying to get it from somewhere more local. Is a 'normal' door-to-door delivery (such as Dairy Crest who deliver organic milk) any better than a supermarket? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I blame the supermarkets and we no longer have any choice but to buy from them. Wolverhampton City Centre does not have a greengrocer or a fishmonger and we have just two butchers. I agree. I have just looked on www.freerangereview.com to find our nearest free range organic butcher and it's 16 miles away Am now also thinking about milk. We've bought organic supermarket milk for a while but I'm now thinking about trying to get it from somewhere more local. Is a 'normal' door-to-door delivery (such as Dairy Crest who deliver organic milk) any better than a supermarket? Rob We don't have a village shop now. But we do have our milk delivered. since we don't have a shop nearby the decision is difficult. Going to the supermarket, wiht all that it entails around being forced to buy what they stock and not supporting small shops etc.etc. is not an attractive prospect. However in terms of minimising travel and use of a car it makes sence to make one big trip each week. Internet shopping sounds good in terms of carbon footprint - but what does that do to other shops? Its just supermarket shopping on-line; which feels an even worse option. Mind you, I think it is a massive job persuading people even to think about the issues - folk I speak to around aren't bothered about it in many cases - just like they still take their airoplane trips for holidays and don't bother about the damage that does. Its such a big task to get folk to take responcibility that I have a lot of respect for people like H F-W who actually try and don't just give up in the face of massive ignorance, apathy and selfishness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Am now also thinking about milk. We've bought organic supermarket milk for a while but I'm now thinking about trying to get it from somewhere more local. Is a 'normal' door-to-door delivery (such as Dairy Crest who deliver organic milk) any better than a supermarket? Rob I used to buy organic milk from Dairy Crest. It was Rachel's organic and more expensive than in the shops. I don't know if that means Rachel was being underpaid by supermarkets or Dairy Crest was overcharging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 thanks for that freerange link, just found my nearest organic butcher, about 10 miles from me but we can always stock up for the freezer. http://www.traditionalmeat.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I got all excited earlier this week when I remembered a 'Family farm Shop' which I drive past on the way to Tesco. It about 2 miles from my house,so really convenient. But what a disappointment it turned out to be Firstly it stank of cigarette smoke,the butcher counter was empty (only stocked at the weekend0 & the pate in the Deli bit was all hard & crusty around the edge. The veggies were really poor.I picked up a lettuce & it was all brown & squidgy - yuk! My daughter & I camoe out with nothing bought & she said to me in the car,Mum, if we had that shop we could make it FANASTIC! It had such potential,all going to waste. Back to the supermarkets for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 For once, I am going to drag this back on topic a tad Thinking back after the initial 'in yer face' legacy of the programme, I had a long hard think about reality TV and how it portrays only what IT WANTS YOU TO SEE. (remember that I was involved - in a very small way - in the filming of The Restaurant, so had first hand experience of how the TV companies manipulate the people and facts involved. It's a shame, but whichever TV company Hugh got involved with, they would've presented it just how THEY wanted. I guess that's the price you pay.... A friend sent me this, which sums it up: Much as I admire Hugh, you have to recognise that modern TV for the masses is just as pernicious as modern chicken for the masses. Reality TV only recognises two classes of people: - Eccentric Celebrities working for 'charidee' - 'Ordinary' people, who smoke fags, swear copiously and wear track suits over their wobbly beer guts. Oh, and they have to shout and cry a lot - because they have lots of 'issues' Intelligent, professional people who calmly solve problems as part of their daily business have no place on TV. The TV programme got it's point across, and that was mostly Hughs point too. The word will be spread and people will take notice and act, but I can feel HFW's frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomaxsmith Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 chrisnrob wrote:Am now also thinking about milk. We've bought organic supermarket milk for a while but I'm now thinking about trying to get it from somewhere more local. Is a 'normal' door-to-door delivery (such as Dairy Crest who deliver organic milk) any better than a supermarket? Confused Rob I used to buy organic milk from Dairy Crest. It was Rachel's organic and more expensive than in the shops. I don't know if that means Rachel was being underpaid by supermarkets or Dairy Crest was overcharging. My Dairy Crest milkman now delivers their own brand organic milk rather than Rachel's (which used to annoy me as it was in unrecyclable Tetrapaks) BUT they managed to keep the same price as they were charging for Rachel's. That means I pay.... wait for it..... 71p for a pint of organic semi skimmed. I daren't even look at the prices in Tesco because I suspect I could get 4 pints for that. My main reason for using the milkman is because I believe he should be supported and the service should be kept for those that really need it and also the glass bottles are more environmentally friendly than plastic or tetrapaks. It's very hard to justify paying £12 a week for milk though. I don't know if they pay their farmers more than the supermarkets. Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeckyBoo Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I'm the same, no greengrocer within 15 miles, no fishmonger for 18, two butcher, one is rubbish (really awful cheap nasty meat) the other is HUGELY expensive and not even free range to justify it. I eat meat and personally I can't see the difference if you're a meat eater between eating a cute fluffy lamb, a beautiful friendly calf or a horse or a goat, if ou eat meat then all you can do is eat the most ethically organically produced and humanely killed animals, or else become a veggie. I used to be a veggie then lapsed when I got together with my carnivorous husband, now I'm too lazy to be cooking three seperate meals every day, one for the kids, one for him then one for me. I've bought free range mostly over the last few years but have gone for special offers when we were on a tight month, from now if we're on a tight month we'll go without. I'm going to try our local farmers market next Thursday to see if I can find food I'm happy with there. Will get on top of the veggie growing again this year - last year was a disaster, had almost nothing - too busy on here and with the chooks! - and am going to have to gradually find other places other than sainsburys or tescos to buy my floor cleaner, loo rolls, coco pops etc. Would love to ditch the supermarket altogether, but it's hard knowing where else to go so am having to do it a step at a time. Interestingly I once checked on the bananas and grapes that I bought in the market and theynot only had the same packaging as Sainsburys they had the same serial numbers too! So presumably the same supplier but almost a third cheaper. Still not organic tho so the market is out too> Verrrrry hard. Mrs Bertie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhapsody Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 This sounds like a "pub fact"; ASDA are US owned so they don't pay income tax sounds a bit odd (they are not the only US business in this country)... what about French companies? Do they pay tax? I am keen to kick ASDA but a citation is required please! I'm sure you didnt mean that to sound as rude as it did Daniel As a subsidiary of Wal-Mart USA, ASDA does not have to declare its half-yearly profits. It avoids tax by trading as an off-shore company, lots of businesses do this but ASDA stands alone as a massive supermarket that trades this way. It also has an appauling record on industrial relations. It was not down the pub but on a BBC money program that I learned all this and as far as I know it has never been retracted. If it has then I take it back unreservedly. Back on topic- Hugh's program showed up to me how defensive the supermarkets and producers are of their practices, the manager who confronted Hugh in Axminster was positively agressive and certainly wasnt any kind of manager I would have looked up to. The Government should force the broiler/battery industry to open its doors, what are they hiding? It wasnt long ago that we didnt get ingredients listed on the food we eat cos the food industry wouldnt allow it! Time to move on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooner.girl Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Is that your new siging Helen? Tommy Moo-ney! I'll get my coat... I would Martin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) I tried using our local milkman a while ago He was hugely expensive for organic milk, but I thought I would give him a go He also told me he would deliver before I went to work. He ended up delivering to me after midday This was okay in the winter but in the summer I ended up having to throw milk away because it had gone off I did try leaving a coolbag on the doorstep for him but in the end reverted back to the supermarket A shame really but I need my milk in the morning for my tea, not at lunchtime Edited January 11, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomaxsmith Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Back on topic- Hugh's program showed up to me how defensive the supermarkets and producers are of their practices, the manager who confronted Hugh in Axminster was positively agressive and certainly wasnt any kind of manager I would have looked up to. It seemed to me that on Hugh's first visit the manager felt as he had been put on the spot by Hugh's visit with a film crew and felt he had to be accommodating. On the second visit I felt that he had been very strongly reminded of Tesco policy from above and was stuck between a rock and a hard place. When he thought Hugh had abused him his frustration at his difficult position came out. Or that's how I read it anyway! Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I tried using our local milkman a while ago He was hugely expensive for organic milk, but I thought I would give him a go He also told me he would deliver before I went to work. He ended up delivering to me after midday This was okay in the winter but in the summer I ended up having to throw milk away because it had gone off I did try leaving a coolbag on the doorstep for him but in the end reverted back to the supermarket A shame really but I need my milk in the morning for my tea, not at lunchtime I went back to buying our organic milk from the supermarket ( ) for exactly the same reason Debs. Plus, the milkman charged roughly twice the price... I just couoldn't justify it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Back on topic- Hugh's program showed up to me how defensive the supermarkets and producers are of their practices, the manager who confronted Hugh in Axminster was positively agressive and certainly wasnt any kind of manager I would have looked up to. It seemed to me that on Hugh's first visit the manager felt as he had been put on the spot by Hugh's visit with a film crew and felt he had to be accommodating. On the second visit I felt that he had been very strongly reminded of Tesco policy from above and was stuck between a rock and a hard place. When he thought Hugh had abused him his frustration at his difficult position came out. Or that's how I read it anyway! Jo you're probably right but didn't really excuse the way he turned his back on Hugh, which is why he misheard Hugh's comment. You can be firm but polite at the same time but he wasn't. Maybe he was nervous about being on camera, I know I wouldn't like it, but then again, he's a manager and should have the skills to cope in that situation. Anyway, it made good TV and was very funny. A little light relief was needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
