Warm boot recommendations please

[Eyren]

I strongly suspect that the success of the no-shampoo route depends on a number of factors, including the texture of your hair, your natural sebum levels, the hardness of your local water, and your tolerance of less-than-perfect hair

 

Maybe we didn't evolve with a bottle of shampoo on our elbow, but then again the hair on our heads is exceptional in the animal kingdom in that it keeps growing continuously instead of having a set length. Something has happened to it in the 5 or 6 million years since our ancestors' line separated from that of the chimps. The various human races with their differing hair textures are a very recent innovation - probably less than a million years old. Pale, melanoma-prone skin is undoubtedly even more recent, maybe only a few tens of thousands of years, since it is virtually unknown outside Europe (as a "native" skin colour)...

 

Come to think of it, everyone has an individual skin chemistry: some people sweat more than others, and perfume smells different on different individuals (there are some "classic" scents that smell like cat pee on me ). There's no "one size fits all" in nature - you have to adjust any regimen to what works with your unique biology and circumstances. There's no point making yourself miserable trying to copy someone else - find a happy medium that works for you. If you decide you need a little bit of eco-friendly shampoo every now and again, at least you'll know exactly why you're using it, instead of just following the herd

 

My hair's a bit greasy this morning, as I haven't shampooed it since first thing Monday (and then only with a tiny quantity of Faith in Nature shampoo), so I'm going to try soapnuts today - I'll let you know how well it's worked later on, when it's completely dry and settled.

[Louise]

I am a really sweaty person but I have very sensitive skin and my hair is quite thick naturally and very wiry and frizzy. The water I use is incredibly soft and chemical free and I have had no problems with this at all

 

Merryn you also seem to be coping what are your statistics so to speak

 

Will check in on sunday as I am off home now

[Guest]

Thanks Redfox, It's good to hear other people's thoughts and I will certainly be interested in hearing about the effectiveness of soapnuts.

 

I had a thought last night. When you made the sticky, you said we should avoid using alkaline products on our hair. Bicarbonate of soda is an alkaline. Does that mean using it is like using a shampoo - and is that why it's so effective? If that is right, then maybe my hair is now reacting to having used the bicarb. If I shampooed, it would start looking dirty after 3 days. Maybe it's the same with the bicarb?

 

I think I might vinegar today, although I was trying to hang on until Monday. I just don't know what to do!

[Lesley-Jean]

If I shampooed, it would start looking dirty after 3 days.

 

Why not a quick shampoo twice a week than Ginette Sounds like a good compromise. Save the Planet and look good. (Although you'r not saving the planet if you still use shower gel or equivalent )

[Lesley]

Excellent!

I decided to do a vinegar whilst staying overnight in Brighton. Shep asked me this morning...is this your plastic measuring jug, what did you bring it here for?

I just mumbled something about pouring to rinse my hair (although there was a lovely shower, so it didn't make sense).

Poor man walked off with that look as if to say, I knew I shouldn't have asked, obviously one of those things I'll never understand about womwn, and batty wife in particular.

Doesn't everyone pack a 30 yr old plastic jug in their overnight bag then?

 

- I can just imagine his face Sheila!

[Guest]

If I shampooed, it would start looking dirty after 3 days.

 

Why not a quick shampoo twice a week than Ginette Sounds like a good compromise. Save the Planet and look good. (Although you'r not saving the planet if you still use shower gel or equivalent )

 

That would be going back to what I used to do! It would be a waste of the last 5 months - I have to improve on something in all of this. I still believe there are more natural ways to care for ourselves and our homes.

 

I use Ecover shower gel, but might go further in this area in the future.

[Lesley-Jean]

Not all experiments have to have a positive result to be worth while doing Ginette. If the past 5 months have shown you that shampooing is something you need to do occasionally to look and feel good, than that is what your experiment has proven. Not a waste of time at all

[Guest]

Did my hair look that bad, Lesley-Jean?

 

I thought it was all right then - but it isn't now. It's all because I can't understand why it isn't all right, when it was before. And (to go into revolting details, which I'm sure you find disgusting!) it's different. Before when it was dirty it was thick with grease. Now it just looks filthy but doesn't have the greasy build-up. And I don't understand why! I would be fine if I knew what was happening.

 

OH has just told me that I have to do something and definitely can't go to Fruitstock tomorrow looking like this! That's VERY strong for him. It must look totally ghastly! This morning's vinegar has just made it look worse again, like it has done for the last few weeks. So, tomorrow it's bicarb.

 

I'm waiting for Louise to come on and tell me just to stick to water! Louise, I always think of you when I'm having these 'don't know what to do' sessions, because I know what you will say. I might try just water while we're on holiday! See how it goes.

[Eyren]

Sorry for the delay in replying - busy day!

 

I think that the bicarb rinse is definitely better for your scalp and the environment than shampoo, as it doesn't contain sodium laureth sulphate, etc - but being alkaline, too much use will upset your scalp's pH, which might be why your hair looks grotty despite not being greasy.

 

I have to admit that I haven't had any luck with either bicarb or soapnuts - the latter just wouldn't rinse out of my hair properly (I've had the same problem in the past with some types of shampoo) and so left it sticky and unpleasant. However it might work fine for some people - you just have to experiment.

 

What seems to work best for my very fine, straight hair is a weekly light shampoo, with vinegar or oatmeal in between - this keeps it thick and full but not too greasy. Admittedly I haven't been doing it for long, but my hair shows the grease a lot sooner than curly would, I think

 

Ginette, why not use shampoo this weekend to give you and your hair a bit of a boost, then see how long you can manage on the 'poo-free regime before you need another one? If people who get highlights, etc, done can adapt their routine, so can you

[Louise]

Am I that predictable Ginette

 

I don't know why I am the only one from the original crew to sail through I wish I could explain it but I did have some really manky weeks but just kept on I was so busy at work I really didn't have the time to care I just feel that the bicarb sets you back a bit as it takes the oils your hair is trying to build up away again I find a good hot wash in wtaer followed by a cold rinse is all I need

[Chicken on a mission]

I'm still looking on at your progress ladies and I am very impressed at your resolve

 

What I expect you will get from this is what the right way forward is for you, after all we are all different.

 

So after taking advice, do what you feel is right once you have had a long hard think about things.

 

All the best

 

Thalia xx

[Lesley-Jean]

Did my hair look that bad, Lesley-Jean?

Bareing in mind I have only met you once Ginette and for all of us not in a dressed up ready to kill situation, and I'm being very honest here so please don't get upset. I was surprised that your hair did not look better. I had imagined that it would look shiny and sleek with the natural oils brushed (100 times per day) through the length of the hair making it move freely and look lustrous, but it unfortunately looked dull and lifeless and in need of care and attention, sorry

 

I think you would feel much better about yourself if you took Redfox's advice and had an occasional little shampoo, something very mild so as not to strip the oils from your hair but to remove the build up of sebum which is obviously caking the dirt onto your hair and making it look lank and lifeless, You hair is long and thick and should look beautiful

[Happymama]

Ginette, shampoo your hair. Get some really nice stuff, make an occasion of it.

 

I can shampoo my hair once every 8 or so weeks and it doens't get all gunky again after, so neither will yours. And your scalp won't PANIC because you've used shampoo once. It'll just carry on producing the oils your scalp needs, not overproducing like it used to. DO you have very hard water where you live?

 

Go for it, girl. And please photo the water so we can have a look? My hairdresser assures me mine is not dirty when she shampoos, but I wonder sometimes ...

[Guest]

Thanks for your honesty Lesley-Jean. I don't mind at all! I like to hear honest opinions. My hair is lacking care and attention in that I haven't had it cut for a very long time, maybe more than a year. Of course I can get away with it as it is long and not 'a cut', but I'm sure it looks tatty and that will not help its overall appearance. I am having it cut on Tuesday!

 

I have just said to OH (before reading this) that I will have to shampoo it before the hairdressers. After last night's horrors, I bicarbed this morning and kept it clipped up all day. On returning home this evening, I am really disappointed to find it feels sticky on top, very odd. It's a similar effect to the vinegar rinse. So now I feel totally stuck and thwarted, nothing seems to work.

 

I think I must try some soapnuts next, which are entirely natural. If they have a 'shampoo' effect, then maybe I'll stick with that. But I'm still puzzled about why there's been a change. I got through weeks 5-8 which were tough. I got to 13 weeks thinking I'd nearly cracked it and it's gone downhill ever since. I feel defeated and disappointed.

 

Thanks for the encouragement HappyMama. It'll feel very strange choosing a decent shampoo! I'll feel like a terrible traitor.

[Lesley-Jean]

Come along Ginette, you know that we all need balance in our lives and all things in moderation is fine. You are in danger of turning into a no-shampoo junky, even Happymama, who started this thread, shampoos occasionally, give yourself a treat, Its the equivalent of a nice meal out or a bottle of good red wine, or a day at the seaside in the sun ,eating fish and chips. It can do no harm but don't make it an every day habbit

 

Just think how you will feel when you've had the ends trimmed off and your hair feels clean..... ah bliss that will last you through until next shampoo treat day

[Sheilaz]

Hi all! Ginette, although it's a shame that the results aren't as good as we'd hoped, it has been an interesting and worthwhile exercise. Remember, we were determined to give it a go for 3 months, and we've done that & more, 5 months! So, now it's time to take stock of where we are now & where we want to be. Any direction you choose will not mean that you are a traitor or have let yourself or anyone down at all! It's been great sharing this through thick and thin (grease & vinegar ) but now it's time for us to fly off & do whatever suits our own hair & circumstances best.

Redfox, LJ & Happymama & others have all made very helpful points. Earlier it was important to us not to just reach for the shampoo on a bad day & then regret it the next. But now we're talking about knowing our own hair & making a considered and informed decision about it.

Our hair image is a big part of our well being, so choose thye option that makes you happy! It seems the last few weeks have been down hairwise, so it's definitely time for a lift. So, go ahead & enjoy it!

I've been thinking "why am I doing this?" ( Many times, and I can hear a few people saying "Yes, why are you doing this?! )

Again, it's personal, but for me;

The main reason is that I have long hair which goes too dry & splits below shoulder length. No amount (or expense) of conditioner has ever enabled me to get a comb through, and although it looks OK for 3 days after each shampoo, it needs constant detangling & brushing which adds to the splitting! I'm convinced that it is shampoo that has caused this state. After all, the dry hair must be over a year old, much of the length 2 or 3 years. So, 3 years of oil stripping, then trying to redress the balance? No wonder my hair rarely looked great!

For the first time in my life, I can get a comb through, but I will only see the true benefit when I only have "new" hair showing, the old hair is already damaged and no amount of oil will repair it. So, I'm hoping to continue & look forward to snipping off more & more old hair as time goes by.

Secondly, I detest using products which are sold as necessary/essential without thinking for myself if I need them. Air fresheners...open a window! Anti perspirants...have a daily wash! ( )

Look at the shampoo ads closely... "will make your hair look healthier" ..not actually making it healthier then. "will make split ends look like a thing of the past"...it covers them up 'til the next wash, doesn't mend them! The more it's advertised, the more vital the product seems. Well, it's often not!

So, those are my only reasons. It does save money too, but that was a bonus, not the motivation for me. It's not even the "must be good because it's natural" for me. Presumably someone invented shampoo because they couldn't stand the natural look any more! After all, we weren't born with hairstaighteners attached either, doesn't mean we shouldn't use them. I'm far away from wanting to be a matted dreadlocked hippy. I like a groomed appearance. But, although my hair looks rubbish sometimes (LJ was far too polite to say ), it also did before I started this, and I'm confident I can change it in the longterm.

The difference is that before, I probably looked neat but with wildish hair, and that's been my life long image. I'll have an identity crisis.

Now I have conforming hair, where's the wild part going to show? (Could be the purple clogs) & non conformist views

Oh, I've only used water the last 2 rinses and I'm quite happy, in a boring sort of way.

[Egluntyne]

Sheila says "Anti perspirants...have a daily wash! "

 

I once had a colleague who had this point of view re deodorant. I did not enjoy working with her because she positively stank on occasion. On good days she just had BO.

[Lesley-Jean]

I like a groomed appearance. But, although my hair looks rubbish sometimes (LJ was far too polite to say )

Who me Polite Never

 

The advantage you have over Ginette is in weight of hair, Ginettes is much thicker and heavier than yours. You hair looked soft and fine but dull and fly away, it would need lots of brushing with a very soft (grannies) brush to move the oils along the shaft. If it is very dry, a hot oil conditioning would work wonders but I'm afraid it would need shampooing out after I think a price worth paying

 

PS I'm off to the hair dressers next Monday for my 8-10 week trim

[Merryn]

Merryn you also seem to be coping what are your statistics so to speak

 

Well, Louise, I used to have thick wiry, coconut matting type of hair. Now it's much softer and thinner. It has a natural wave but goes frizzy in the rain. I wear it fairly short.

Our water is soft - Birmingham takes its water from the Welsh hills so that's a bonus.

Can't think of any more details!

[The Dogmother]

I wouldn't feel guilty about shampooing Ginette. As you know, Rosie is still just rinsing, but I shampoo about twice a month, with just water rinses in between; that works for me, but then my hair is relatively short compared with yours. As has been pointed out, it is important to find a balance that works for you; have a lovely shampoo with something mild and natural and then just rinse for a while.

 

As a friend of mine says 'There's no point in cutting off your toenails to spite your face'

[Guest]

Clare you always come out with these ridiculous sayings! They are very you - at least in your forum persona!

 

Tomorrow I am using shampoo It'll be nice to have clean hair (assuming it works!!!) but I shall hate doing it. It is a one-off. I haven't used shampoo since March 13th and I am still searching to find some alternative which works for me and doesn't contain unnatural substances.

[Eyren]

Presumably someone invented shampoo because they couldn't stand the natural look any more!

 

It occurred to me, being a history fan, that in most European cultures since the fall of the Roman Empire, it has been customary for girls to wear their hair uncovered until puberty (which would have been around age 15-18, not 12 as in our well-nourished society) then wear a headcovering at all times. This is usually explained as being Christian-influenced and that women were supposed to hide their tempting, sexy tresses from men's sight - but maybe women started it and it was more to do with concealing greasy rattails

 

Let's admit it girls, we dress up to compete with other women, not to lure men - otherwise we'd all be in fishnets and stilettos

[Muppet81]

How very true Redfox

[Guest]

Well, I have shampood. What a palaver, I have to say. It's SO much easier without these products! I couldn't do anything with the first shampoo, but the second got going all right and yes, the water looked a bit dirty but not terrible! I did a third shampoo to make sure (as the first didn't work at all!). Then I put on conditioner and rinsed that off thoroughly as well. It all took so long and I couldn't be sure I'd got it all out, unlike rinsing off vinegar. My hair was terribly squeaky too.

 

Now it is dry, it feels nice and is shiny, but it also feels dry. It is very similar to a brilliant bicarb effect!

 

I don't know where I will go from here but I really don't want to return to shampoo and conditioner. I have been told about a site (www.essential-care.co.uk) which sells a natural, organic, herbal shampoo. I can't be sure that it is 100% natural, but I am inspired by its statement that after two shampoos you won't need conditioner. That is the biggest and best thing we have all discovered - if you don't use shampoo, you don't need conditioner! So it sounds very promising. And I am waiting for news from the person (sorry, I can't remember who it was at the moment! ) who was going to try soapnuts. Soapnuts sound too good to be true, and I really ought to get some!

 

Thank you all for your encouragement and understanding. You have helped me not to feel like a traitor or someone who has let the side down!

[Lesley-Jean]

Well done you Ginette

 

You must find a way which is "happy" for you.

 

No need to feel guilty at all When I scoff a box of choccies I don't think of how much damage they do to my arteries or hips. I just enjoy them and know it is only an occasional treat and not a way of life.

 

It sounds to me as if you still need some hair conditioning to help maintain the water level in the hair shafts.

 

http://www.mookychick.co.uk/body/diy_beauty_natural_hair.php

 

This site contains some tips for oil treatments

 

http://www.naturalcollection.com/natural-products/Natural-Hair--Body-Care-For-You-From-Faith-In-Nat.asp?sc=T

 

This site has some good natural ingredient products