Chicken Memorials

[Cinnamon]

My eldest girl, who is 15, has always been strong willed,but this last fortnight has developed into someone I barely know.

 

She has been doing the narky teenage thing for about a year now,but these days can hardly bring herself to be civil to the rest of the family.

She rolls her eyes at the slightest request,answers in grunts & tosses her hair if we so much as ask her how her day was

 

She says that at 15 she should be allowed to go to bed when she wants,not when we ask her to. We let her stay up until 10 on a school night,which I don't think is unreasonable, later at weekends.

She says we treat her like a child (which she still is!), but we are letting her go to the Reading Festival with a friend & some comdey gigs in town too, when we will be expected to ferry her around.

We drive her into town to meet with friends if she wants, & generally do all the things parents do.

 

We have found that her behavoiur is much worse if she is online or gaming all day,so have restricted her online leisure time to 2 hours a day,which makes us horrors in her eyes,who are treating her with disrespect.

She refuses even to say goodbye or goodnight to me anymore,which is so upsetting.

 

Now I know she is a teen & this is sort of to be expected,but she is making life at home intolerable. I have been in tears over her behaviour

I love her so much,but have began to not like her much.

 

All suggestions welcomed!

[chickenanne]

Poor you!!! I can't offer any advice, as it sounds to me like you're doing everything right... I don't have kids, so I am usually spectacularly ready with criticism of how other people raise theirs!

Is there something that's bothering her, school, boyfreind trouble, social life...? Just because if its got worse recently then perhaps there's some underlying cause. Maybe plan something nice to do together and ask her then? Like I say, I'm not the person to ask for advice, but you do have my sympathies!

[chelsea]

I cant offer much advice either, but I also say "stick to your guns"!!

 

You are the parent and you are quite right - she is still a child. I think its very good that you set boundaries (bedtimes, restricted internet access etc) as I think all children need boundaries/rules which set them up for later in life. Without these I think she (and children in general) would be much worse.

 

I was a terrible teenager at about the same age, simply awful to my mum but I was terrified of my dad and was very respectful to him (as he dished out the punishments!).

 

It will pass Sarah, so just keep up the good work. I am really close to my mum now, so she will grow out of it.

[Egluntyne]

I know just how you feel!

 

Please believe me....it is just a phase...a rite of passage almost. They come out the other side intact and lovely young adults.

 

Stand firm with your household rules and never waver when she says "well everyone else is allowed to" or "everyone else has got one or had a piercing or tattoo. When you speak to "everyone-else's" mother you will find that it is generally not the case.

 

You will also find that even though you don't like your child very much a times....you never stop loving them.

 

The joys of motherhood.

[hillfamily]

I feel for you Sarah...........and I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you I wish I had a solution (or a magic wand) but sadly I don't. You are doing all the right things

 

My DD is 14 and is pushing the boundaries more and more and becoming more sulky and argumentative (and does this a lot more). There have been times of late when I feel sorry for my DS as he can get caught in the crossfire.

 

I honestly can't say if its a phase they go through or there is something more to it. I take each day and situation as it comes and keep constant in my ground rules (just as you are).

 

Sorry I can't be more help..........sending ((((big big hugs))))

[lizinsa]

I was also going to suggest that it sounds as if there is something troubling her. Is she stressed by schoolwork or fallen out with a friend or boyfriend? I'm not sure asking her about it directly will help, unless you are fluent in gruntspeak! How close is she to her sister, may she know what is happening?

 

I know it's hard but you have to remember it is typical teenager behaviour and not a personal attack on you but at home we had a few basic groundrules that we had to stick to regardless of age. It may be worth re-establishing them, like saying hello/goodbye, and point out that you are extending her freedoms but there has to be boundaries. Teenagers feel more secure if they know where they stand and their parents are consistent.

 

GOOD LUCK!

[fairy&cake]

oooooh This sounds like how i was when i was a teen. But i think i was worse.

I don't think my parents cared as much as you obviously do though. [thtas another story though]

 

To be honest, i think that you've got to come down on her like a ton of bricks.

 

Tell her if this behaviour doesn't stop, and she does as you wish in a SINCERE manor, not just 'Night Mom , love you' in a 'taking - the-mick' voice. If she doesnt do as you wish, i'd stop her going to he festival, or ANYTHING else that shes looking foward to.

 

But before you take everything away, ask her to sit down with you, because you have something very serious you want to talk to her about.

 

Tell her honestly how you feel, [try and get your partner to back youup so that you look United in this feeling and view.] And say that you'd just like basic common manners, conversations and you and your partner think shes been disrespectful to you both.

 

Tell her : '' Joebloggs, if this doesnt improve me and your father will have no choice but to stop you going to Reading fest and the comedy clubs, and we MEAN it. You are part of this family, and we do nice things for you, we are more than reasonable parents''

 

NO comprimising, no bending the rules, you HAVE to stand your ground.

 

My dad this to me in the end, and he MEANT it, and i knew it, i never rolled my eyes again.

 

At first she'l probably go nuts, walking off, shouting, like a toddler. But you must stick to it, and set FIRM ground rules.

 

Its the only way she will stop it, if she sees her Actions have results : IE, no reading festival. She should soon stop.

[fairy&cake]

I just read my post and i sound like a child expert, LOL.

 

But- i was 15, 6yrs ago, and i remember it well!!!!!

[Ana's flock]

15 is not an easy age... your body is starting to look like a woman's and yet your emotions are shifting from child to adult... and for us parents our babies will always be exactly that, our babies.

 

We worry about them and communicate from a loving/caring position: 'teenagers 'so absolutely loath being treated like children' - and then they behave like a tantrum-throwing 2 year old!

 

I recently bought a book about how hormones affect us women through our entire lives. It was a very good book, and I remember reading that adolescence was one of the trickiest times, all the progesterone, testosterone, estrogen up and down like a yo-yo each month. That explains why teenagers are one moment giggling like crazy about any little thing, and the following day you mention some unimportant nonsense to them and they roll their eyes, shake their heads and gallop away like a mad filly, usually in tears. (Sorry, blonde moment, I forgot the title and forgot where I put the book... 'me' estrogen must be playing up... it starts when you get to your 40s too... )

 

Another book I'm reading now is 'The gentle art of communicating with kids' by Suzette Haden Elgin - good book too.

 

I had a great example on how to bring up children by watching my uncle bringing up single-handed his three daughters. His wife died when my youngest cousin was only 3 and he never remarried. He always spoke to them (and to me too) like if he was talking to another adult. The same level of respect was given and expected from us. He would explain, negotiate and stand no nonsense or silly moods. He was (and still is) a very loving man, so we got hugs as well as stern looks.

 

My cousins are now great women in their late 20s and early 30s. All of them have University degrees, two of them doctorates. The youngest one is studying her post-grad in Paris, with a European grant. They all adore their dad.

 

I wrote that to show there's light at the end of the tunnel. I'm no expert in girl teenage behaviour (my boys are still young - well, the older one has started to get a bit lippy lately and I had 'the talk' about respect and communication - it seems to be working, fingers crossed.)

 

My only suggestion is talk to her and listen to what she has to say... (and perhaps keep a little diary of her moods and reactions related to time of the month... ) Good luck!

[Treekeeper]

Been there done that with daughter, now going through the same with YS trouble is although he is only 12 he is almost the same size as me and keeps trying the physical challenge aspect every time he is asked to do something it takes at least 3 goes and then he makes the usual teenage grunt and eye roll. But he does it in the end, you just have to persevere with them and they do come out of it don't take anything they say or do as personal it's mostly raging hormones that they don't know how to control

[Strepsy]

My middle one started this behaviour at about the age of 10, she's 12 now and no signs of letting up! At times it can really be a strain on the family, her elder sister (13) is still managing to be fairly lovely except for the odd occasion and she often gets the worst of her younger sister's moods. Sometimes it's funny because it's just so Harry Enfield but it's a battle and I don't want her to feel like an outsider which I know she sometimes does so it is really hard. Hubby doesn't make things easier unfortunately as she makes him so mad, he then can't resist getting a dig in even when she's being ok.

 

I've actually found having the chickens helps though because everyone's up at 7:15 wanting to go and check for eggs and the kids often come into my room and sit on the bed to chat before getting ready for school, so it's calmer time and I think it helps her feel involved, and it helps me remember what a lovely person she is underneath! lol. Eating together helps too, just anything to get her talking and involved really.

 

What's that Oscar Wilde quote, something like 'We start out loving our parents, then we judge them, rarely do we ever forgive'.

[Ana's flock]

... the kids often come into my room and sit on the bed to chat before getting ready for school, so it's calmer time and I think it helps her feel involved, and it helps me remember what a lovely person she is underneath! lol. Eating together helps too, just anything to get her talking and involved really.

 

I think that's a great idea, and the 'trick' of keeping 'in touch' with those 'changelings' .

 

Last year I established 'mummy talk time' before bed, when the boys come into my room and we talk about our day (all of us), and cuddle up together. (Sometimes we have to do a bit of a rough and tumble if they're still full of energy, but I guess that's mainly a boys' thing... mind you, I can be a real mean 'horsey' and buck them out of bed... we've had a couple of head bumps! )

 

To be fair, they can also respect when mummy is tired and behave accordingly.

 

We all love 'mummy time' and I'll be sad when they're too old for it.

[Chooks Aloud]

Let me put your mind at rest - it's just a phase - hormones, hormones. We've been there. I've two girls 18 and 19 - who are lovely, but they've had their moments.

 

When they were being abnoxious, we sat them down and told them if they wanted to be treated as adults, they have to act like it. All the time they are living under our roof, they have to abide by the rules. Respect is a two way thing. My husband and I love them dearly, but would not tolerate unreasonable behaviour.

 

We always stuck to our guns if we set a punishment we always carried it out. They new the boundaries and if they over stepped the mark, they new the outcome. Firm but fair - tough love. It works.

 

They really are lovely girls (other people have told me this it's not just me being biased). They are kind, considerate and very thoughtful. The other day I wasn't feeling too good and the youngest one said "you sit down and relax, I'll do all of the ironing".

 

Although it's awful when you are going through it - there is light at the end of the tunnel. Be strong and don't give in - everything will be alright in the end.

 

Karen

[Guest]

 

Now I know she is a teen & this is sort of to be expected,but she is making life at home intolerable. I have been in tears over her behaviour

I love her so much,but have began to not like her much.

 

All suggestions welcomed!

 

 

By far the best advice I can offer is to establish some kind of a regular house meeting where every member of the household attends - ideally weekly.

 

This is not the same as democracy (we have three kids - so they could outvote us!!) - but it is a forum where decisions can be properly discussed (rather than simply argued about when they become flashpoints) - helping to develop a sense of family responsibility.

 

you can air your grievances and the kids can air theirs - it can also be the place for making family plans - holidays - days out - sorting chores - and congratulating success.

 

if you have never done this before - it will seem quite false to start with - but it really does work and really can make a difference.

 

 

my second top tip is the language you use. it sounds odd - but ALWAYS use language like...

 

when you ***insert specific behaviour*** it makes me feel ___________

 

that is so much more constructive and cannot be argued with - because it is how you feel)

 

 

also - (obviously) - choose your battles! don't fight battles you know you can't win!

 

 

Good Luck - and go easy on yourself (her behaviour is not your fault)

 

Phil

[BarbaraJ]

I agree totally with Fairy&cake. My kids are 21, 18 and 17 i know hormone hell lol the 21yr old is moody anyway so shes as bad as the other 2 sometimes. I don't do grunts if they want to talk to me they talk properly lol they might storm off to their bedrooms but thats fine as long as they keep their mouths shut lol

We always told ours(together me and hubby) that if they wanted to be treated like adults then behave like one, if they behaved like kids they got treated like kids, i'm not their friend i'm their parent , you know what i mean, nicely nicely can make more trouble in the rough years.The eldest is now more a friend though she is coming through the other side.

behaving well comes with lifts, priviledges, treats. Bad behaviour/ disrespect and it all gets reined in till they deserve it again!

We are a family and are supposed to respect each other of course their are times where their hormones run away with them but then i expect a later apology, given gracefully hopefully

[chickencam]

I feel for you, it sounds to me like you are doing the right things. I think that all people need boundaries especially under 18's and overall they feel all the more secure for them.

 

My ED will be 15 in September, so far we get on pretty well but she does resent it if I feel the need to show who's boss. She has always managed to charm all relatives & teachers and she is used to being told how lovely and how clever she is, which mostly she is, but she is also quite self centred and can be really horrible to her sister including swearing at her and making rude gestures which i just will not stand for, so this caused some conflict over the Easter break

 

So long as you keep the lines of communications open and don't enter into screaming matches with her she will be fine.

 

What about making time to do stuff on your own with her like shopping of a lunch out etc where you can chat without it feeling like a telling off.

[Rhapsody]

Cinammon please bear in mind that this 'hair flicking eye-rolling teen' is an image we all all bombarded with every day in the media, and it has become accepted as a norm and a truth, your daughter has been fed this as the ideal and epitome of cool. As an impressionable child this is not her fault, and it certainly isnt yours.

But you run the house pay the bills etc etc and deserve at least respect and courtesy, I remind my 15yo when he gets too big for his boots that I am not one of his friends, I will laugh and joke with him but he has to mind his p's and q's. Sulking is for toddlers, any of that from either of mine gets them ignored with loss of all priviledges until they can be civilised. I also enforce the '5- screen ban', no TV, PC, PS, DS, DVD until they shape up.

 

It has been suggested that in this age group it is the peer group, not the parents who are the biggest influence which is something you might want to ponder. You can be understanding to your teenagers without pandering to them, and they actually appreciate it!

 

A little personal anecdote- Last summer we went as a family to Greece on a Markwarner holiday, which has an excellent teen programme. After about 2 days Older Son wanted to go out to the local beach bar with the rest of his group (he was 15) we said ok but 1) be back by midnight 2) we limited his spending to 20 euros. He moaned but we stood firm and waited up for him every night.

By the 4th night half the group who hadn't been given/abided by boundaries were too hungover to go out or grounded for their behaviour, OS carried on enjoying his nights out and on the last night we let him stay out until the whole group came back. Result for everyone.

I've wittered on a bit, but as the mother of two teenage boys this is a subject very close to my heart.

Rhapsody x

[Treekeeper]

The phrase I want to be treated like an adult is so familiar.

 

Why? you are 12, your sister is 16 she is allowed to do things you are not. Why can't they undestand this?

[superjules]

Oh Sarah, my heart goes out to you, it must be so frustrating and I've got all this to come!

 

You are doing the right thing by setting boundaries though - it's far easier to just let them get on with it, but that's not being a proper parent in my opinion. (Superjules ducks and runs for cover).

 

DS has started to answer back recently so I introduced something I once saw on a TV program. He starts the day with the opportunity of earning 20p by the end of it - every time he doesn't do as he's told or breaks our rules (he knows what they are) he gets one warning and if he carries on he loses a penny. He gets to spend the money on sweets at the weekend. When we started he would get down to 8p at the end of the day but yesterday he got 17p, which he was really pleased with. I don't know how you would tailor that to a 15 year old but it's helping us get along better.

 

I know some people would disagree with bribing children to behave but it may only be a temporary thing to get everyone back on track.

 

Good luck Sarah!

[Guest]

There's some really good advice here Sarah and I hope it helps. Teenage girls can be so distressing with their behaviour.

 

I stick to my rules and try to remember that this is my home. A 15 year old is not an adult. If she were, then she would be paying her way in FULL! Ultimately she has very little choice but to obey your rules. Adults have learnt to be civil to the people around them and to treat them with respect.

 

I also think it is a gradual process of trust. I extend the limits and if everything goes well, then I'm willing to extend them further but only as far as I am happy with. Talking calmly about things is always helpful. It is harder with your first child and you need to be reassured by her that everything she wants to do is safe. We had a hard time with DD1 but she did accept after a while that it was reasonable to let us know where she was going, who with and when she would be home (always before midnight). We had to accept that it was unreasonable to ask her to be on the 10 o/c bus and would meet her from the bus at 11:25pm - but only on Fridays and Saturdays. During the week she stayed in.

 

It's tough but you'll get there. Good luck Sarah!

[chickencam]

My 9 year old has a big problem with the fact that she is not allowed to do all of the things that her elder sister is allowed to do

[Rich & Ange]

I agree with fairy & cake. Set your boundaries and stick to them. Try to sit down and discuss them reasonably with your 15 year old and ask for her opinion on the matter. If there is a way you can compromise on a something, so that she feels that she has some say in it then all the better. Or say to her that the rules are whatever they are, but when she behaves better or reaches her next birthday you can re-discuss them. We do this with our 12 year old. She is very teenagery for a 12 year old, but I always try to explain our reasons for things and try to allow her to do a few things that she wants, but that I can feel comfortable with.

 

For example she wants to go camping with her friends and I have resisted this as it obviously not safe for a bunch of 12 year olds, even in some peoples gardens. Our garden is now fully enclosed so I have agreed to let 4 of them sleep in our garden tonight! We figured that it is a compromise as I will feel she is safe (there are enclosed gardens on either side aswell), but she is getting to do something a bit more grown up, in her eyes. (So far so good!)

 

I have a feeling things will get harder, I was an awful teenager, but I will keep trying to explain why things are the way they are and hope for the best!

[Yorkshire Pudding]

Poor you! And poor her, I remember being a total moo to my Mum at that age and I wouldn't be 15 again for anything.

 

There is a top tip called 'Pressing the pause button', which I have found is very effective with all ages, not just teens.

 

Effectively, if your daughter starts to have a rant at you because of a reasonable request or refusal, you simply say 'We can't discuss this while you're angry - we'll talk later when you're calm.' Then you WALK AWAY. This way you defuse the argument instantly, by simply refusing to have it, and you retain your dignity.

 

The essential thing is that later, when she's watching TV or something, you make the time to discuss the mattter, calmly and firmly. Phil's advice about the type of language is also really good.

 

Family meetings are a good idea - make sure everyone has a chance to speak and that you use it as a chance to model how to listen to and consider others' points of view, even if you have a good idea what you want to be decided before the event. Also making time to talk to her on your own about anything at all is helpful, to keep the lines of communication open - the car is a good place because you don't have to look at one another, so only the verbal communication counts and all the eye-rolling can roll of you like water off a duck's back! If you can talk together about 'neutral' topics it makes it easier to talk about more heated things. Again this is a good chance to show her that you are interested in her and value her opinion.

 

Make clear what the consequences of her behaviour will be, such as 'If you refuse to speak to me, you won't be given a lift into town tonight'; then you stick to what you have said. No negotiations, no U-turns.

 

One which worked really well on my son (still only 8 but pretty good at tantrums!) was to withdraw half his pocket money when he refused to tidy his bedroom - normally I don't make too much fuss but it was a health hazard on this occasion. With only half his normal pocket money he was severely limited in what he could do with it that week, but he couldn't claim we were total meanies either!

 

Consistency, calmness and respect are the key things and as others have said, it will pass! She will turn out to be a lovely person - she has you as her Mum!

[BarbaraJ]

Lol @ rich&angie , i ended up having children round here much more than they went to others as it was an easy way to compromise well most of the time even now my sons bedroom always seems to have an extra person sleeping or playing games!

Harder now as they all work/socialise/study but we tried very hard to all eat together every night as they very quickly dissconnect themselves, never allowed food in their rooms anyway its yucky!

[Cinnamon]

Well, thanks everyone.

 

I knew I could count on you lot for good advice & supprot, & you came through as usual.

 

The boundaries stay - Hubby & I discussed this earlier today & we both feel its very important.Not least because her younger sister will see that we will not cave so hopefully won't be as much of a pain when her time comes

 

I like the idea of family meeting time too, so I will try to put that in effect soon. I think it will help my younger daughter too.She is 13 & suffers from the fall out of her elder sister behaviour,which isn't fair.

My eldest always used to pop & see me before bedtime & we would chat, me in bed,her sitting on it,but this has stopped as she deems it 'babyish'....she is SO eager to be an adult that it scares me!

 

Peer problems. Well, there have been a few over the past couple of weeks & I am sure that they haven't helped.

She has a new friend,a boy who is NOT a boyfriend (she says), & they get on brilliantly & are going to a couple of comedy gigs together later in the year.

I have never met him so am unsure if its his influence that has changed her behaviour. Naturally she won't have him over...perish the thought that we should embarass her! From what I have heard he is a nice lad.

 

Mostly I just miss the person she was.I miss our chats,our shopping trips & our jokes together.

She is an amazing person usually with a keen intelligence & wicked sense of humour.

 

Thanks again for your support - you lot are brilliant