4m x 3m Omlet pen, cube, new auto door still boxed and coop light

[urbanchick]

We have had a noise problem since the ex batts arrived and the neighbours complained a few weeks ago. As a result I started closing the door at night and we no longer had the loud squawking at 5.30am! Anyway I forgot to close the door one night and there was alot of noise because a fox was bothering them. They complained again and I explained the fox situation and that I would be shutting the door at night again. Despite this they have now written me a letter to say they were woken up at 6.15 both days this weekend. Now this was simply clucking in the cube and stopped when I opened the door (at 6.15am) to let them out for breakfast. I can hear it but it is not particularly loud but I suppose once you have got a bugbear about something it will continue to wind you up.

 

I don't feel I can do anything more than I am currently doing. They have asked me to take action to stop the morning noise but it's not that bad. And they still sleep with their window open!!!

 

Does anyone know the legal implications of replying to them in writing, assuming of course that I keep things polite?

 

What's the solution here? (Please don't tell me to give them any eggs as I think they'll be thrown at me!) It's incredibly stressful and it is obviously stressful to them too, but then they are moaners, having complained about the noise the previous neighbours made then the noise our dog made.

Edited June 14, 2008 by Guest

[chelsea]

I know how stressful it can be as I have noisy chickens

 

I have spent the best part of what supposed to be a relaxing days holiday running out around the garden trying to shut up my chickens . I have a broody which is hogging the nest box and the other 3 go bonkers when they want to lay, and then we have the egg announcements when they have laid. Seriously testing my patience today.

 

anyway, enough of me rambling on. Im sorry to hear of your problems. I always shut my chickens in and close the door at night. I find a cover of dark material over the cube helps cut down the noise as it stays darker inside the cube come the morning. I dont hear a peep out of my girls until I let them out, and i also have CCTV inside my cube and they are sometimes asleep right up until I let them out. at 7am.

 

I have a dark black picnic cover over the top (my cube is in shade under a tree), if you do this remember not to cover up any ventilation holes and remove it by day.

 

Hope your situation improves.

[Helen&Lee]

I used to shut the cube door but they used to make such a noise to be let out - even before the clocks changed and it was hardly light

 

So I started leaving it open all the time, its much better apart from the odd morning one of them lays early.

 

But, we don't have a fox problem - (the rural foxes around us leave us alone)

 

Our little hamlet is very quiet, no car alarms, traffic noise etc and people can get very 'precious' if they hear noise but so far so good

 

If people complained, I'd have to tell them to shut the local owl up, the lambs bleating and those two dogs that bark when left alone....

 

Helen

[urbanchick]

I have a dark black picnic cover over the top (my cube is in shade under a tree), if you do this remember not to cover up any ventilation holes and remove it by day.

 

What bits do you cover up? There are ventilation holes all round and the whole of the grey back panel seems to let alot of light through. I too have my cube under a tree but it's not completely shaded.

[chelsea]

I leave the vent on the right hand side at the front not covered.

 

I mostly cover the door area and over the top and a bit down the back. The vents down the back of the cube at the bottom (by the poo tray) are left uncovered also. It seems to work for me.

[Abbey Road Girl]

Since I'm not a licenced practitioner, I can't give you legal advice as such. However I am a researcher in law and a campaigner with more than ten years of listening to the problems people have experienced in the legal system.

 

My practical advice is Don't worry!

 

Unless you live in a very extraordinary jurisdiction, your neighbours don't have a legal leg to stand on. Also, it seems unlikely that anything you attempt will placate them.

 

If however you wish to write a letter, seal it in an envelope which has "Private & Confidential" written over their name and address (this will discourage them from alleging defamation).

 

The letter itself can be headed "Without Prejudice", which is a way of ensuring that whatever you have to say is off-the-record and non-binding. Curzon's Dictionary of Law defines it as "a term used so as to protect the writer of a document against the construing of its contents as an admission of liability and means, in effect, 'without prejudice to the rights of the writer of the statement'".

 

If they make legal threats, you can respond by alleging "an abuse of process" which is similar to wasting police time.

 

Should you run into difficulty or want me to look over a draft letter, feel free to PM me. (You can tell I'm not a proper lawyer, because I have never charged anyone for advice!)

[stuartlowb]

If they are sleeping with their windows open then they will be woken up by the dawn chorus anyway.

 

Legally I dont think that they have any recourse. I had a neighbour complain that my tumble drier emits too much noise through the airvent and that I didnt do something then he would get the council involved. When I invited him to do so he quickly back tracked and I havent heard from him since.

 

We can all get concerned about the noise our chickens may or may not make as we are focused on them but if you stop and listen to the background noise that is around particularly from wild birds (which is constant) then you will realise how quite the hens are in general apart from a few minutes per day. Factor in the odd dog barking, children playing and cars passing by then the noise will be irrelevant and I am sure that there is nothing they can do. Some people (like my neighbour) are intent on trying to control everything around them - they probably lead small and unfulfilling lives and therefore try to make everyone else miserable.

 

Sorry for the rant but things like this really annoy me.

[chickenanne]

Perhaps they have just put the complaint in writing because they feel the verbal complaint hasn't been addressed? Possibly they wanted to make it more formal in case there was any misunderstanding or whatever.

Maybe I'm naive, but I wouldn't have thought they'd want to make it a legal matter - most people I know wouldn't even consider this with a neighbourly issue, unless it was never addressed and got out of hand.

I do think that if the noise is troubling them then you're doing the right thing in trying to improve matters; I'm sure that everyone with neighbours would want the same courtesy extended to them.

Making the cube darker inside sounds like really good advice; is there any way you could insulate it further against noise? I've heard of people using bales of straw around the hen house to insulate against light and noise. I've never had to try this myself, though.

[Egluntyne]

If they are sleeping with their windows open then they will be woken up by the dawn chorus anyway.

 

Good point. It is positively deafening here.

 

I agree with Abby Road Girl.

 

Admit nothing and apologise for nothing as that could be taken by them as an admission.

 

You could express surprise as you are not disturbed by them and you live closer.

 

Councils and noise abatement people tend not to be interested in this kind of thing anyway, and they are unlikely to risk taking you to court (very expensive, and losing).

 

Good luck.

[urbanchick]

Thanks everyone. I will try blacking out the cube.

 

Great advice about the letter, I don't suppose I can do any harm by taking the steps you advise (and I may pm you with a copy before I send it!).

 

I am confident they do not have a legal leg to stand on and I am sure they have looked into it also. I think it's my moral rights I'm questioning - is the noise that bad, am I being unreasonable, that sort of thing. It is pretty clear that they are trying to bully me into getting rid of some of them. I am determined that won't happen. If I back down they'll start on something else and my children will be very upset to lose their pets.

 

And did I mention we live in detached house and the cube is 40 feet from their property?

[Abbey Road Girl]

And did I mention we live in detached house and the cube is 40 feet from their property?

 

Crikey! Are they royalty? Princess and the pea sort of thing, isn't it!

[chickenanne]

IMO it would be unreasonable to do nothing to help the situation, but that isn't the case here - you are trying to reduce early-morning noise.

Some chickens are much louder than others of course, but I think once someone finds a noise irritating, even if it's not the worst around, it'll disturb them more and more, in the manner of ticking clocks in hotel bedrooms!!

I wouldn't consider getting rid of them - I would be letting them out later at the weekends and keeping the cube dark so they sleep for as long as possible, as suggested already. After all, in a few months time it'll be dark in the mornings again anyway (boo), and by next spring they'll have forgotten all about it.

[blackpuddinonnabike]

Okay, view from someone who has suffered noise in the past and had to move house 9 months after moving in because of it...

 

It may well be that the problems they had with the previous neighbours were legitimate - the thing is, when you have suffered it can then take a long time to react to things 'rationally'. We've lived in our detached house for a year now, and I'll still jump and get that same nervous feeling of noise starting up again at things like the house creaking when cooling down at night. This isn't to say that they are right in their complaints, just that it might explain why they are 'moaners'. All I can say is that was a period of our lives we wouldn't wish on anyone.

 

The most important thing is you are taking steps to try and ameliorate the situation. Presumably they knew you had chickens previously, and so will know they are normally quiet, and with ex-batts it might just be that they are settling down.

 

The system for complaining about noise is actually pretty heavily weighted against those who are suffering from it (much easier if the property causing noise is rented) but one thing you are told to do when suffering is to keep a diary of things, and make sure you have everything in writing. Sounds like this is what your neighbours are doing. What I would suggest is you do the same.

 

These things have no real weight as evidence, but it can be interesting to see where the two records digress or meet.

 

Unfortunately while I'm a lawyer this isn't my area, and it's Scots law rather than English that I know anyway, but with the problems alluded to above it's an area I've become only too well versed in. One of the most important pieces of advice I can give is to try and keep things as amicable as possible, and keep communicating.

[owenofj]

'ameliorate' what a sexy word.

 

Offer to keep them supplied with ear plugs.

[Cooks]

maybe try telling them you can hear them snoring through their window or worse!

 

good luck!

[WitchHazel]

We have noisy neighbours, and they are a nightmare. Like blackpuddinonabike, having suffered for so long I now find that any noise from them- eve noise I once would have accepted as normal neighbour noise - really winds me up now. What's even more irritating than the noise per se, is the fact that they just don't give a flying fling. Yes, they turn it down if enough people go round to complain, or when the police arrive, but that just doesn't stop them.

 

In the interests of being seen to be a considerate neighbour, please make sure you let your neighbours know that you are trying something, for exampple, making the Cube darker to encourage the girls to sleep later,

 

Is it possible for you to move the Cube to another location in the garden? Even though you live in a detatched house, and the Cube may be positioned away from them, it may be that the Cube is in direct line of their bedroom windows, for example.

 

It may be prudent not to admit to noise, but you could say that although you don't think there is that much noise, you can see that it's bothering them and so this is what you'll be trying to see if it makes it better.

[Guest]

i sleep with my window open, I have to so I can breathe (asthma). I regularly get woken up in the morning by neighbourhood dogs, cars, radios, motorbikes, early risers, even people coughing and sneezing from next door! Also at night by laet night BBQs etc but I grin and bear it because they have never complained about any noise our girls make and they do sometimes kick off early but only sometimes.

 

Live and let live, everyone has to put up with some noise from their neighbours and unless your girls are making a constant din, I honestly don't think they have a case.

 

Abbey Road Girl has given more informed advice so I hope that's put your mind at rest. It must be very stressful and I feel for you and hope your neighbours put up and shut up very soon!

[Rhapsody]

maybe try telling them you can hear them snoring through their window or worse!

 

good luck!

 

[AndyJay]

I have just gone through a noise complaint problem from my neighbour.

 

I received a letter complaining from the Council which then got my back up and I wanted to punch my neighbours lights out. Just so so you know that if it gets to the point where the council is involved then dont worry as what happens is they send you a letter and in turn one to the complainent asking them to keep a diary. Often this will put them off, or make them realise that its not that often etc ...

 

People often get worked up about the slightest things, usualy as they have nothing better to do.

 

Again just have a listen yourself, if its bad then try moving the coop, covering it etc. if they are fighting to get to nest then maybee a bigger coop would fix it.

 

Even if the complaint went bad as in they get the council involved etc, just because things go to that level, they council dont always take action anyway as just becuase someone complains does not make it a noise nuisance. The officer I dealt with was very funny, as he said people often moan as they have nothing better to do and need a life.

 

Try and talk to them, I find writing in legal terms just gets their back up, just try and be civil and invite them round for a drink and try to talk.

 

If you are still worried contact your concil and as its them that have to deal with it if things go bad ask them to see if they think it is a nuisance. Either way dont get wound up.

 

I am sure moving the coop/covering it or getting a bigger one will sort it out.

 

Just try talking to them as I bet they will back down if you visit, but dont go in all guns blazing. Its better to talk than write as often the feeling is lost on a letter email.

[stoice]

Before i got my ex-batts i checked with my council for any by-laws or problems with keeping chickens in my garden. Here's the reply relating to noise...

 

"... Also, if the hens caused a nuisance by reason of noise, smell or escape of

effluent etcetera then the Council could in appropriate circumstances

make an order requiring the nuisance to cease. In extreme cases this

can sometimes lead to the confiscation of birds. There are many sources of advice on poultry keeping online and elsewhere. Following best practices should prevent the birds becoming a nuisance."

 

I think the key thing here is 'in extreme circumstances' and i think a few clucks every now and again is nothing compared to hedge trimmers, screaming kids, or lawn mowers other people have. The gang of magpies in my neighbours tree is far louder! (Especially when they caught a baby blackbird yesterday - sob)

 

Plus you're on here asking all these chicken experts on 'best practice'. There's not much more you can do.

 

Good luck

[chelsea]

just to add to this thread that most people are grumpy in the morning (me included ), so if you can control the early morning bokking I think you will be ok.

 

Do you have anything planted around the run area of the garden?, trees, bushes etc do help a little bit at blanking out a bit of noise, we have a big tree by our run and I've just planted a huge bamboo plant which eventually will act as a screen and will help soften the noise!

[urbanchick]

It is the early morning bokking from inside the closed cube that they are complaining about, because it is waking them up.

 

I don't think 6 hens in a cube are complaining about space. They are simply awake and hungry. Leaving them in the cube for longer just prolongs the noise.

 

I have so far taken all steps I could think of in order to reduce the noise and the last thing I can do is cover the cube. I will try that tonight.

 

It might make it clearer if you take a look at my album (link below). The first 3 pics make a panoramic view from the cube to next door's bedroom. There are trees, a fence and a garage between them so it's pretty well soundproofed.

 

I don't think inviting them around for a drink is going to work. We are at a stalemate because we have done pretty much all we can but they are still not happy.

[chelsea]

lovely set up you have there.

 

lets hope it dies down a bit and roll on darker mornings! (I cant wait for autumn/winter )

[Aunty e]

We had a similar problem for a bit (I say had, the little *******'s woke us up at five this morning because we forgot to shut them in), and we covered the cube with a dark blanket, which really seemed to help. We try to always shut them in at night, and they don't come out until around eight, when most people are up. They get used to it very quickly, and ours simply wait to be let out in the morning.

[AndyJay]

If you cant find a spot where the noise does not carry and away from the house and not in line with the neighbours windows, then you could look at maybe soundproofing the coop. Looking at the size I would try a large and think quilt over it, leave the air holes pointing away from your neighbour but make sure no large solid objects such as a wall are close as the sopund will echo off it. If you need to put it by a wall, then have something like reednetting on the wall as it breaks up the sound and will be less obtrusive.

 

Either way if they have not got the council envolved then dont worry. If its driving them nuts then they should shut the window, or hope the nats bite them so much they shut the window.

 

I have had to deal with noise in a more drastic way, as mine now sleep in a small shed 6x4 shed, that I have lined in the internal gaps with builders polystrene, then layered another layer of wood over that. They now spend the night in a sound proof shed thats warm in the winter and cooler in the summer. Good thing is it only cost me just over £140 and I have space for even more chickens, and they have a posh home ...

 

Either way dont get down, there is always a way to overcom the problem.

 

Good luck