4m x 3m Omlet pen, cube, new auto door still boxed and coop light

[Ziggy]

Hi all

 

This is a very general post, and a very general question, not aiming to attack or criticise anybody, so please everyone read it with open mind...

 

There has been concern expressed recently on this board about the welfare of re-homed ex-batts, that might be taken as egg machines... I imagine and remember reading a while ago, that they might also be bought as meat chooks...

Most of us get upset about this... I don't think it's a vegetarian against meat eater debate, but a 'take in an animal as a pet after it has had a hard life' versus 'take an animal for a productive purpose'... I am myself a vegetarian, but although I wouldn't do it, I don't condemn people who rear animals for meat, if it's done in a humane way...

My concern is... the BHWT do their best... but things seem to slip through... I read Buffie's latest post, and though I fully admire and respect what is being done, and I am totally happy with my ex-batts, the point is that when I booked ex-batts I was hardly ever asked anything at all... yes I was asked questions, don't get me wrong, the co-ordinater did her job and I am not in the slightest accusing her, and maybe cause I have omlet hens already there was more trust, but really my worry is that anyone can just lie to the BHWT people.... if I intend to use those hens for meat or any other unintended purpose, and I'm asked questions about how I would look after them, let's face it, I would just lie... Do you have separate accomodation for your ex-batts? yes of course!!! You need to buy layers' mash.... Yes of course!!! and so on....

I cannot imagine that the BHWT would be able to homecheck any potential canditate... and to be honest, having been assessed by a well-known animal rescue as a cat rehomer and having been approved only to find they made any excuse not to let us have cats, to now have 5 royally happy cats living with us, I don't really believe in home checks... but I do worry about what can be done? It seems the chooks from the BHWT can easily be targeted with easy lies, because there isn't the possibility and times for serious efficient checks for hundreds of chooks at each rescue...

Is it a question of taking a chance? Those chooks had it hard and a chance at a good life is better than nothing?

Pls everyone don't take this as an attack on BHWT, it sure isn't, I admire what the BHWT do, and Buffie's regular updates and efforts, and I love my chooks and the contact with the co-ordinators, the rescue day, and the experience of seeing them enjoy their life and then integrate with my Omlets has been amazing... but what I read on here does worry me...

Anyway... all just a thought... could anything logistically be done or is it a case of trying one's best and hoping for the best?

[superjules]

This is a really emotive subject but personally I don't think it's feasible for the BHWT to do any more than they are already doing. They are re-homing thousands of hens at a time, it must be a huge job co-ordinating it all and I take my hat off to them.

 

I think most people who are taking them on will be genuine people who want to give these hens a better life, but as with anything there's always a small element with less scrupulous motives.

[*mummy_hen*]

Hi Ziggy, i know where you are coming from as i have recently had concerns over a potential ex-batt rehomer, but agree with superjules - what else can they feasibly do?

 

I will raise my concerns with them and i hope from the bottom of my heart that they will take these concerns seriously and act apon them when/if those people should contact them.

[Ziggy]

I thoroughly agree that there isn't much that the BHWT can do... and that's really my worry... they do such a fantastic job rehoming so many hens, and can't possibly cross check everybody...

I have read your post, mummy_hen, and found it quite upsetting, and keep thinking that while hopefully many people will get ex-batts with the best aims, some will not think about it, some will get them and get tired of them, some will get rid of them when they stop laying, some will have them for meat (though I guess the BHWT would notice someone who keeps coming back for more at alarming intervals)....

I guess all we can do is do our best, let BHWT do their best, hope for the best, and report any alarming things to them....

[*mummy_hen*]

It did upset me so much - i just have to make sure i do the best i can to prevent a bad situation.

 

I think there are thousands of people who want to home ex-batts and give them the best of lives, it's just a shame there are the few heartless people that can't give the animals the respect they deserve and can't see them as anything more than for their own gain/disposal.

[AMO]

I may have to stand corrected on this but I think they do home visits if over 20/25 hens are requested at any one time.

[mayflower]

Honestly and truly, I cannot imagine people getting ex bats for meat. There is no flesh on the poor darlings, and if yours were like mine, they were also dehydrated and very skinny. As for egg machines, maybe people would, but hopefully give the hens far more room than what they had in the cages. My Co ordinator did ask me alot of questions before putting me on her list. She also quizzed me about henkeeping....food, housing, healthcare etc, and made sure I was doing my reading homework. Only then was I added to her list. The organization are doing a grand job. I honestly do'nt think they could do anymore to protect the hens.

[Ziggy]

Okie... I wasn't thinking of 20 hens to be honest... thinking of smaller numbers.

Many ex-batts wouldn't be suitable for meat, I don't know how those people would do it... my ex-batts were 'only' kept four to a cage and one of them was quite plump when I got her...

I don't generalise, just going from posts I've read on this forum before, about people saying they release non-laying hens to fields to be caught by foxes, and once about someone having heard someone boast about how many ex-batts they had in their freezer...

I love to think so many ex-batts move on to better lives with new owners, and pls let me repeat I am not accusing the BHWT for being uncareful, but the publicity lately makes me wonder if, as well as many goodwill owners, there will be not so nice ones attracted by it... I guess they'd have to live close to the rescue site though, cause they probably wouldn't travel far for a few cheap birds...

I don't mean to start a debate or an argument... I just repeated what I'd read here and expressed concern about how easy it is to read the BHWT website (which is very useful when looking to adopt ex-batts) and lie...

Anyway, I guess it's just a case of rehoming the most for the best... and hopefully most do get the best.

[Guest]

I think it was Egluntine who raised the point that if the BHWT charged more than 50p per bird then that would avoid this issue. If say they charged £3 per bird then that would put off those who intend to eat them as they can buy chickens cheaper at the supermarket.

 

It was argued that not everbody could afford £3 per bird but I said that if they couldn't afford that then they shouldn't even consider taking them on because we all know the cost of feedm housing, medication etc etc.

 

Buffie then said the BHWT have their reasons for not asking for more than 5op per bird but didn't explain what those reasons were.

 

I still think they should ask for more than 50p and until I know what those reasons are, I stand by my opinion.

 

These girls deserve to be well looked after, nay pampered! It breaks my heart to think they'd go to home where they won't be cherished.

[Lesley]

I would agree with that Poet - even £2 would deter those wanting them for meat. but I would assume that the reason for not charging that amount would have something to do with the farmers they rescue all the hens from

 

That would still leave the problem that hens may go to people who don't have suitable conditions ready for them............but it would be a lot of trouble for someone who didn't really care to actually make arrangements, make the initial phone call, drive to the collecting point etc. and I would imagine that most people who rehome are suitable and it is a risk that has to be taken.

 

These hens are rescued in thousands - it would be near impossible to vet everyone. I would say that the vast majority of rescue hens have a free and happy life.

[my fat hen]

I think that the BHWT are doing all that they possibly can too.

 

The trouble is that hens are seen as a commercial industry they aren't viewed as pets and so are treated accordingly, there is an element of risk involved in re -homing any animal, but the numbers of battery hens in relation to the homes available must mean that they stiil have to be viewed as a number rather than an individual to a degree. Possibly a few slip through the net and end up in unsuitable homes, but to be honest, what is the alternative for them?

 

I also can't see the type of person who doesn't care wanting to take on ex-batts; you can get pol warrens round here for a fiver, so why bother rescuing hens that might need more care and attention and have a shorter laying life?

 

I can also see problems with charging more, some of the poor things look terrible, and people might not want to pay more for poor birds some of which may die shortly after purchase - especially when they were going to slaughter anyway. Plus a lower price means that people are able to rehome in larger quantities.

[buffie]

Thanks for all this

 

Believe me it's as thorough as it possibly can be. On the point of value, we have wonderful donations at collections and we don't want ex batts to have a high sell on value so we keep a minimal charge to cover costs and are really asking you to all to give these hens a happy home. If you could pick up ex batts cheaper, why support BHWT's work? It's the big picture, what our aims are.

 

The rescue coords do a stirling job (I'm not one by the way) and we will not rehome large numbers, for obvious reasons.

 

What first impressed me was how much there was in place to prevent hens going to the wrong homes, more than can be said for ex batts that you pick up from other poultry suppliers.

This is me speaking as Buffie not BHWT, just wanted to give a little input to this thread,

 

BBx

[Egluntyne]

That gives a clearer understanding Buffie. Thanks.

 

I'm happy to pay the 50p and give a decent donation next time I rescue some ex-batts.

 

I am sure there will be a next time.

[chickenlass]

I gave a donation when I got my first three last year and I will of course give a donation again when I collect my next lot of girls on the 29th.

Perhaps the BHWT have got the overall picture right as I would think that most genuine animal lovers who collect the hens will see that 50p is a ridiculously low amount to give per hen and happily offer more if they are able to. At the same time it won't frighten off people who are on lower incomes but would dearly love to give some hens a home.

[Lesley]

I meant to say - and Buffie has said it as well now - the rehoming is a smaller part of the big picture really.

 

The campaigning side of BWHT will ensure that far fewer hens end up in this situation in the first place.

[Guest]

....The campaigning side of BWHT will ensure that far fewer hens end up in this situation in the first place.

 

 

absolutely! It's far easier and far more effective to persuade people not to buy a product that contains battery eggs than to get the producer of that product to stop using battery eggs! The word is spreading and hopefully, eventually, there will be such a small market for battery eggs that battery farming will cease to be.

 

The BHWT do a fabulous job, I tell everyone how wonderful they are!

[*mummy_hen*]

I'm shocked that the BHWT only expect 50p a hen?!! We gave £6 per hen and even then i felt i wished i had given more!

[Egluntyne]

Buffie has explained the reasons for it.

 

I imagine most people give more. I know I did, and continue to support the BHWT in other ways too.

 

I did see one individual hand over a fiver and made it clear that she expected change ( she took 6 hens) when I collected my girls.

 

Maybe she was hard up....Toyota Landcruisers can't be cheap to run.

[*mummy_hen*]

I think you are right Egluntine that it's not only about the amount of money you donate, but the other ways in which you support the charity.

 

We are ULTRA careful of the things we buy, both in the supermarket (although we do most of our shopping from the local farmers market) but also when eating out and just buying an ice-cream from a local shop, checking whether this is made with eggs. etc.

 

Since having our girls we have been spreading the word about the battery egg industry and the charity itself as it really has shocked me as a consumer and as a human being as to the horror of it and the condition of the poor birds and i would have thought i was an 'aware' person.

[abwsco]

I did see one individual hand over a fiver and made it clear that she expected change ( she took 6 hens) when I collected my girls.

 

Maybe she was hard up....Toyota Landcruisers can't be cheap to run.

 

There was a lady ahead of me who'd taken 17 when we got ours and she only gave the 50p each. She was in a Freelander or similar. Just not in my nature only to give the 50p.

[The Dogmother]

I did see one individual hand over a fiver and made it clear that she expected change ( she took 6 hens) when I collected my girls.

 

Maybe she was hard up....Toyota Landcruisers can't be cheap to run.

 

 

I have seen that too Egluntine. There are always those who will pay the bare minimum, and usually they are the ones who don't appear to be at all hard up. At the last rescue, one kind chap, with tears in his eyes insisted that Ian take £20 for two hens... what a gem; he put the others to shame.

[Ziggy]

I made a bigger donation than 50p per hen at our ex-batts collection, and my little girl brought her own pocket money to donate too, she made a lovely donation... the guy who was doing the paperwork looked puzzled being handed money to by both myself and my daughter, then realised what was going on and he was so lovely to my little girl, chatting to her and giving her a couple of keyrings as thank you... she now proudly displays her BHWT keyring on her schoolbag and campaigns to the headmistress at school...

I agree that there is more to the BHWT work than the rehoming... after all it's only by changing things, that we will solve this steady flow of ex-batts looking for happy retirement homes...

I guess that, at the end of the day, even if there are some 'rogue' rehomers out there not taking ex-batts for the right reasons, the number of happily rehomed hens makes up for it...

I'll never forget the sight when I went to pick up mine All those chooks looking confused in the shed, Claret and her friends catching them, and mostly our Nicky hen rushing straight to our carrier with a 'take me home, take me home, pick me, pick me, pick me' attitude ...

[The Dogmother]

That was AMO and her OH catching chooks with me.

 

That one hen really wanted to be picked by you, didn't she? It's easy catching them when the stables are full of hens, but as there get to be fewer they have more room to run away from us!

[Ziggy]

It's easy catching them when the stables are full of hens, but as there get to be fewer they have more room to run away from us!

 

i did think that at the time, imagining the three of you trying to corner the last few hens

[dancing cloud]

Let's face it, if someone wants to lie to BHWT/dog rescue/cat rescue they can and they will, but the very great vast majority of us don't. With the many thousands of birds rescued and the message getting out, I honestly believe BHWT are doing a great job.

 

I was contacted by my co-ordinator and asked questions in such a nice way I hardly realised I was being interviewed. As I've not had hens before, she wanted to check I knew what I was getting into and that I had clearly thought about the potential problems of ex-batts in particular. Was I worried about them being in a poor state? No, that was kind of the point. Was I concerned they may not act like normal hens? Well I'd never had normal hens, so wouldn't know the difference. The cat rescue were more concerned about where I lived and whether I owned my own home than whether I knew how to care for the cat!

 

As for the 50p brigade, yes I was stood behind a couple of them too. I really don't think I would have the brass neck to only give 50p, let alone demand change!

 

However, to make up for the mean ones, I am selling the eggs from my adoptees at work and all proceeds are going to BHWT. My staff are very much on board, having been sent pictures of my hens in the state they were when I got them (a bit of emotional blackmail can go a long way ) and two of them have taken over the collection and naming of boxes and the collection of money off their own bat! I get the hens, people get cheap eggs, BHWT get some cash - works all round.