buffie Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I'm going to have a meeting next week with a nice chap from the egg marketing inspectorate (they police the standard for free range eggs) and I will be putting questions to him about certification etc and discussing all things egg related. I will proudly show off my Eglu and girls of course. I am representing the BHWT and asking questions but thought who better to give me ideas for more questions, than you. So please let me know if you can think of anything that might be good to ask. BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I would like to know something. How come when you see free range hens on TV,there are lots & lots of them in a pen.........is there a guideline for space per hen in the pen that qualifies them to still be free range? And how is this regulated? I think many people have a romantic view that free range means they are roaming freely around a farm,when often in reality thay are still penned,but with room to run & scratch about,with the masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 I want to find out the criteria for free range status myself and how it's policed Sarah so it will be on my list thanks. Obviously I am having the meeting very much 'pro free range' and just want this sort of question answered to clarify. BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacedhopper Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 freerange only means the chickens are not caged but allowed to "roam free" they are still restricted in their movements and the treatment and cleanliness can still be the same as factory farmed chickens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavey Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I was told that you need 8 sq feet per hen of external space for them to be classed as free range. There also seems to be two different standards for Organic eggs - the egg marketing guys and the Soil Association. Can you ask them why, vegetables have to be fully organic to be labelled 'Organic' (ie organic stock seeds planted in orgainic soil and and only treated, when necessary, with organically approved gunk) that the same does not apply to their 'Organic' labelled eggs? (ie organically reared chicks) You can't buy any old strawberry plant at the local garden centre, take it home, plant it in an organic growbag, not spray it with pesticides and call the produce 'Organic Strawberries', but you can do exactly this equivelent with eggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 My understanding of freerange (which might be wrong ) is that they are allowed access to roam free, but in reality, most of the chooks don't make it out into the open as some thuggish top-chooks guard the opening vicously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavey Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 That's mine too. Big barn with 'x' amount of popholes for the hens inside to get in and out of the barn and on to a small amount of mud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheilaz Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I'd be hestitant to ask too many questions when the info is available elsewhere, Buffie. Rather than possibly putting someone on the spot asking for details, surely it would be better to be well prepared and know your stuff, and use that as a lever for discussion? I know that hasn't given you a question as such, but it's a first thought. Defra gives a really clear definition of Freerange for eggs, which is same as for barns but with access to a certain amount of outdoor space too. I would cut & paste, or link, the details if I knew how! But, it's all there on Defra site....9 birds per sq. metre & 15cm perch space per bird, in the barn etc, and a specific limit on no. of birds per hectare outside. Hope this has been of some use, & wish you well with the meeting, Jayne. xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Do those conditions differ from organic, or is the only difference in diet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheilaz Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I didn't stop & read the organic definition, but I think that's there too. Oooooh, I think I'll pop back & learn it all later, then I can be a real expert on the subject. (Then, speak in my best anorak voice, and tell you all the details, way beyond the ones that are interesting....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Just found this page on the PETA site - a bit anti-meat, but worthreading. http://www.peta.org.uk/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=115 And this on the DEFRA site http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/farmed/layers/layerscode.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 I will get lots of info ( already have) Sheila I'm known as a terrier. He has just offered to answer questions that may be useful for educating consumers and for us to use in our work. It is good of him to give the time and as a consumer myself it's a good opportunity. Free Range is far superior in every way to cages so that's why we support it. The bottom line is that the consumer has to have a good alternative to cages and that is free range.If the consumer thinks free range is no better than a cage then they won't worry where the eggs come ( and won't want to pay a little more) and that's not what we want. Thanks for giving me ideas this is great. BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieP Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Buff, I would love them to push for clear labelling of the status of eggs used IN things. eg when you get the ingredients, it should state whether the egg is organic/free range etc. It could become yet another little icon on the packaging. Seems to me that is where most battery hen's eggs end up now: As ingredients rather than being sold as whole eggs, so that is where the focus should now be.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I agree Annie - if more people knew where the eggs in a product came from, they may stop to think. I can't see how battery farming can comply with the Five Freedoms listed by Defra - especially No.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 yes I can see this is going to be even more useful than I had first thought because if we all have these questions what does the consumer think? BB x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunty e Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I'd be interested to know what outdoor space they have to have, ie does it have to be an enriched enviroment or mud or grass or is it ok as long as they can see sky? I'm only buying woodland free range eggs at the mo (when I have to buy them) as they seem to at least guarantee some fun for the little darlings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellcat Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 You probably already know the answer to this, Buffie, but I know you re-home the Battery hens - what happens to the 'free range' chickens when they are no longer productive? do they get re-homed if the opportunity presents itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 BHWT is dealing with battery hens only, the adoption gives them a happy retirement but most importantly this raises awareness of their plight in a caged system and informs consumers. You can of course ask a free range producer if you can adopt some of their spent hens. BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Quote Helen G what happens to the 'free range' chickens when they are no longer productive? Aren't they used to make Burns pet food? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacedhopper Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Just found this page on the PETA site - a bit anti-meat, but worthreading. Bit anti meat ? What do you expect, People against the Ethical Treatment of Animals.? What a shocker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacedhopper Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Battery hens and free range hens are both farmed by people looking to make a profit, what do they care if the chooks are happy ? Just like any kind of farming, dairy, mink, meat etc etc.. Take a look at the PETA site and the VIVA site, they are very informative. Dont buy eggs from a supermarket you dont know where they originate from, if you must eat eggs, get your own chooks like you lot, then at least you can be sure about the way they are treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Compassion in World Farming have this as one of their primary campaigns. Their website http://www.ciwf.org.uk/campaigns/primary_campaigns/egg-laying.html has definitions: "The battery cage system is an industrial farming system in which laying hens spend their short lives confined in small wire cages with several other hens. Under EU law, each hen has an allotted floor space allowance of 550cm² - the equivalent of less than an A4 sheet of paper." "Barn (perchery) systems – in this system the hens are kept in loose flock sheds with raised perches or platforms. The flooring must be littered, often wood-shavings are provided, and the current European maximum stocking density numbers are 25 hens per square metre of floor space, and 15cm of perch is to be provided for each bird." "Free range systems – free range hens are usually kept in houses similar to those used for barn systems, but they have access to the outdoors (which must be mainly covered with vegetation) during the day and space allowance of between 2.5m² and 4m² per hen." I've been a member of CiWF for years and have to say that their bulletins and magazines are supremely informative. I'd encourage anyone interested in animal welfare to join them Good luck with your meeting Buffie! Jools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellcat Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Quote Helen Gwhat happens to the 'free range' chickens when they are no longer productive? Aren't they used to make Burns pet food? Oh. I kind of knew it was that sort of thing but... It would be ok if they had a good life to start with. I am (as you know) VERY pro meat eating but I like my food to have been happy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 The chap sounds very nice and is now coming next friday. It's important to me to get all the facts and pass on the information. I appreciate your comments. BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
