My eco solution to rat problems

[Guest]

Clare does sometimes have these lucid moments. Not often though....

 

[The Dogmother]

Oh Graham

 

At least you didn't attribute it to my age

 

What is it they say about hurting the ones you love the most?

 

(It was one of my more sane moments in a day of havoc!)

[melcotton]

Well, what a thread this has turned out to be

 

I don't eat meat, mainly as a result of poor animal welfare and not initially being able to afford organic meat (I was only 15 when I turned veggie) yet my husband a 3 children are meat eaters.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that by raising your own meat, you are giving that animal the best possible life and that you respect the meat that you do choose to eat.

 

The reality is that people are always going to eat meat and programmes like river cottage etc have tried to provide the public with the info to make their own decisions knowing all the facts.

 

When we do start raising our own table birds (btw lesley your set up sounds like a dream - would love to see how it all works together) I am considering eating meat again. Only that which I have raised myself.

 

Its about respecting what you do eat and making informed decisions me thinks...

 

Mel

[Lesley]

You're welcome to come and see us anytime Mel - just give me a shout

 

It will be Work In Progress for about 5 years though!

[melcotton]

Might take you up on that sometime Lesley

 

Mel

[tara]

I have had a good read of all your veiws.My own veiw is that if you eat your chickens then whats the difference between eating your cats and dogs as in some countries they are also eaten.I understand that there quality of life is far better but what about there choice to live no one can honestly say that an animal wants to die and have its body eaten.If you choose to give it a better life then its a shame that they still all have the same ending.As l work in a job where l see death a lot its not a nice site .Its our instint to survive why do we take that away from helpless animals that cant fight back.

[Lesley H]

I am a veggie and have been since I was 12. I agree with you Tara to some extent, but I feel that it is natural to eat meat. If the animal has had a good life then I respect people's choices to eat meat.

What I cannot tollerate is people who eat meat that has had no life whatsoever just to feed their greed. Ignorance is no excuse - information is everywhere.

I respect you guys who have the guts to give your animals a good life before the chop...and not to blindly buy it packaged and looking like something that never live and breathed.

I get sick and tired of justifying why I am a vegetarian - complete strangers ask me why if they hear me chosing a non meat option - when it is these ignorant people who should be justifying what they eat.

 

Good on you to anyone who cares and respects animals.

[The Dogmother]

I don't think that any of us here have make the decisions that we have lightly (does that read right?). They have been carefully considered and in some cases, agonised over.

 

Personally, I believe that we are designed to eat meat, and that is why I continue to do so. I had 6 months as a vegetarian, this was in the days before there was so much information and choice about animal welfare. It didn't suit my body at all, although I was careful to eat alternative types of protein, I quickly became anaemic and was always tired. Granted, at that time, I was training very hard and working as a personal trainer, so putting lots of physical stress on my body. It was a hard decision to go back to eating meat, but I tried to make informed choices about it's sourcing even then, before the current wave of enlightened media information.

 

I am comfortable with where I am at now. And it sounds like you are too with your preferences Tara. Thank you for giving this valuable chance for debate.

[buffie]

Well this is really interesting and I thought that my view may interest some of you. Like Tara I was veggie when I got our pet hens. I felt I was cruel to eat meat and had not eaten meat for 13 years. I didn't judge others for eating meat I just couldn't see myself changing.

 

Several months ago our then pup, Daisie, was quite unwell and after exhausting all avenues we turned to a holistic vet. Amongst other things he asked us to feed a raw organic meat diet to her and our cats. He is passionate about welfare and a vegetarian! I was willing to do anything, even hold a chicken carcass in my hands and chop it up. I was repulsed at first but I had to do it.

 

I started to think and one thought that grew was my personal 'boycott' of meat actually didn't help their welfare, I know this by my work for BHWT. If I don't eat eggs it doesn't stop battery farming. I could source my meat and pay more for their care and method of slaughter. The type of meat production I was having to support for my pets was more expensive but for very good reason. I thought long and hard and decided I could eat meat but it would only be coming from known , independant sources.

 

I don't regret this and these animals aren't pets. Those who have mentioned 'growing their own' in their posts have no intention of eating their 'pet' hens. I do respect every opinion however. These animals are bred to eat, it's just how it is, as far as I am concerned.

 

When I first found BHWT, I felt an extreme view, Jane soon explained that I would be of no help if it remained such. I soon began to understand more and my view and attitude changed. I champion animal welfare everyday.

 

Supporting positive practices is what I have leant to do and I admire those who can grow their own. I have no inclination but it's a wonderful thing to know you've afforded an animal, bred for meat, a good life and compassionate end.

 

BBx

[The Dogmother]

Well said that Birdie!

[rachel19]

I personally don't have a problem with eating any form of meat and if i was to go to a country that ate dog or guinea pig then i would be willing to try that to as it is part of that countries culture and i don't see it as any different to eating any other animal. When i recently went to South Africa they had hippo, giraffe and warthog on the menu and that seems as much a part of their diet as other meat (also very nice). We are a so called 'predator species' and like any other predators eat meat - i wouldn't expect a lion to switch to carrots. I do however object to the way we rear animals purely for their meat and only buy organic meat from as local a source as possible as I believe this is the best way. I can understand why people object to eating meat but i guess everyone has different opinions and this is why i love the fact we have such a diverse culture over here where we can discuss this kind of thing

[Cinnamon]

What an interesting & thought provoking thread.

I have read all the posts with great interest & have really enjoyed the arguments you have all put forward.

We are meat eaters & will continue to be so (we also shop at Tesco )

We all have life decisions to make,& it is my choice to eat meat,although I prefer to eat meat which has been raised as I would like it to be raised.

 

I came here to find out more about raising chickens for meat too,as we have space to do it & feel like it is the right thing to do as a family.

 

Any chance of some more advice on this,for a complete novice?

[chelsea]

Ive been a vegetarian for 20 years. What spurred me to be a vegetarian was watching a tv program on foreign slaughterhouses and the inhumane treatment of animals on this particular program. I havent missed meat at all. Ive been married to a fully qualified butcher for 10 years (now a chicken catcher!) and he is a real carnivore (loves his meat) and has seen the death of animals for meat and has been cutting meat himself for 20 years.

 

I am VERY compassionate about all animals, and a very emotional person (I get upset when I see a dead rabbit on the road ), BUT I have nothing against meat eaters or the humane slaughter of well kept animals for meat (of course it would be an ideal world if the whole world ate veg) and all the fluffly little animals hopped about in fields - but life isnt perfect and the world is predominately meat eating.

 

In my own opinion I dont see anything wrong with anyone who wants to lovingly rear and tend to their own stock for meat, at least the person looking after the animals knows what its been fed and has given it the best life possible. Rearing chickens or lamb/pigs for meat is not the same as a pet dog or cat - they are pets.

 

Some people (like me) keep chickens as pets, but some people dont - thats the way it is.

 

living in a rural area nearly my whole family are involved in the farming/chicken/meat/food industry in some way or another, I do not judge what they do because im a vegetarian and animal lover and they do not judge me....jobs in the farming/meat rearing industry arent at all pleasant (like my husband's)...but in an area where jobs are scarce and low paid we havent got much choice.

[Guest]

This has been such an interesting thread to read.

 

I know since having our girls that our eating habits have changed dramatically.

 

We think about the food we eat and try to buy organic/freerange/environmentally friendly where possible, not easy as we live in a very urban area and there are no farm shops or organic products available anywhere close.

 

I am lucky to have a veg box delivery every 2 weeks, this comes from Shropshire and we do have a very good butcher close to where I work, not much organic meat but it is from a good local source.

 

I do try and cook from scratch as much as I can but not always easy as I work full time and with 2 ravenous children who want feeding as soon as they get home it can be quite difficult. (Although we do manage without any processed food now).

 

I have let the children watch the River Cottage programme as I think it is important that if they are going to eat meat they should know where it comes, how it has been looked after, how it is killed and how it gets on their plates

 

With regard to the hens as pets, that is what they are, pets. If you ask the children what pets they have they will say chickens and a cat. We wouldn't eat any of them, but we may in the future become a little more self-sufficient and have chickens as 'dinners'.

 

What Lesley and Carl have done and what others are thinking of doing is admirable. It is a very big step and one that a lot of us would like, us included, to take.

 

I have visited Lesley and Carl and seen how the animals are looked after. They have fantastic lives and then when the time comes they have a calm dignified end.

 

Supermarkets have a lot to answer for now with our attitudes to food, they have made it too easy for families to eat different things at different times and not have to come together to eat because they can just put any old junk in the microwave and eat when they like

 

I'll get off my soap box now and leave you all in peace

[The Dogmother]

Supermarkets have a lot to answer for now with our attitudes to food, they have made it too easy for families to eat different things at different times and not have to come together to eat because they can just put any old junk in the microwave and eat when they like

 

Does kind of make you wonder how some people would manage if all the junk food suddenly disappeared and they had to cook from scratch

 

Bit like that bloke on RC a couple of weeks back, who thought that making chicke broth from the bones was barbaric.

[Jools]

I know since having our girls that our eating habits have changed dramatically.

 

This is the bit about keeping a few chickens that I really love - it changes peoples' lives in so many ways

 

That first egg is such a thrill and there's nothing like eating eggs from your own hens. Chickens have personalities and enrich our lives, making us more caring and thoughtful human beings, teaching our kids the same values. Starting to equate our pet hens with the £2.50 broiler from Tescos and turning our noses up at shop bought eggs. Scanning ingredients to see if they contain free-range eggs, and if not, putting the product firmly back on the shelf. Buying only free-range or organic chicken, then starting to think maybe, just maybe, I could possibly raise a few meat birds .......

 

It's so satisfying to hear about others making that same journey

[Lesley]

What an interesting & thought provoking thread.

I have read all the posts with great interest & have really enjoyed the arguments you have all put forward.

We are meat eaters & will continue to be so (we also shop at Tesco )

We all have life decisions to make,& it is my choice to eat meat,although I prefer to eat meat which has been raised as I would like it to be raised.

 

I came here to find out more about raising chickens for meat too,as we have space to do it & feel like it is the right thing to do as a family.

 

Any chance of some more advice on this,for a complete novice?

 

Ask away Sarah - there are a few of us on here who have done this now. You may also like to browse the River Cottage forum - their Chickens and Poultry section is very informative. (just try to avoid the Eglu debate )

 

We have just despatched 6 today - Matthew came round and two minutes later it was all over, calm and quick. It's sad to see but infinitely preferable to what happens in some intensive 'factory'. Lauren and Jake were here when they were returned and had a good inspection of them. They were also sad about the chickens which had been running around yesterday but comfortable in knowing that they were for food.

 

I'm not responsible for the food that Lauren and Jake eat but they have been learning as well since we first had two chickens. They have chatted to Mum and Dad (no bullying, honestly ) and so they have also changed their shopping habits and found a local butcher.

[Guest]

It definitely has changed and lives and will continue to do so

 

Jules has got a 'Tudor' day tomorrow. The whole year all dress up in Tudor costumes and they have to take in 'Tudor type' food and they will live as Tudors for the day.

 

I have just made up her lunch and she has chicken legs, a lovely piece of cheese (not sure if they had cheddar then) some slices of beef left over from sunday lunch homemade bread and some of those yummy oatmeal biscuits and to drink some organic apple juice (mead/wine)

 

Whilst making it up I was wondering if many of the children will have this sort of thing and whether or not it was a ploy by the school to get them to bring some 'real' food into school instead of the usual chocolate bars and crisps

 

I wonder if Henry VIII was around now he would be sending his servants to the local kebab shop for a doner and chips

[Cinnamon]

Debs,I remeber my girls doing that at primary school too - they took similar food,all wrapped up in fabric rather than in a lunchbox - great fun!

 

Lesley,thanks for that.

One thing I would like to know is how do you break the chickens up into joints?

I am really squeamish with meat & cannot butcher it myself. Maybe a local butcher will do it for me?

 

Also,what breed of chicken are best for meat?

Do you keep them in an Eglu or another henhouse?

 

I am still dithering on whether to do this or not,as I see it as quite a commitment,but I think it would be good for us as a family to produce our own chicken.

[pgodd]

Fantastic thread and some great debating going on here.

 

Lesley, would we be able to keep both our layers and meat chickens in the same enclosure and feed them the same food?

 

We do not have that much space, so would rather not split our layers enclosure in half to accomodate meat birds .

 

Paul.

[Lesley]

One thing I would like to know is how do you break the chickens up into joints?

I am really squeamish with meat & cannot butcher it myself. Maybe a local butcher will do it for me?

 

Also,what breed of chicken are best for meat?

Do you keep them in an Eglu or another henhouse?

 

I am still dithering on whether to do this or not,as I see it as quite a commitment,but I think it would be good for us as a family to produce our own chicken.

 

We've not yet jointed a chicken - we just roast them whole. We will be doing it over the next couple of days though. I think there is a 'how to do it' in HFW's Meat book - if not there's always good old Mrs Beeton!

If you have a friendly butcher then he may help out.

 

We buy Ross Cobs from a man who supplies the big boys. We buy them at 4 weeks old. At this age, they still need some heat so I would only do it through late spring or summer. This year we had them at the end of August. These grow fast but we let them range and grow more slowly. They run up and down and hop up on to a platform quite happily. They look like the ones Hugh showed on his new programme two weeks ago.

 

We are trying to build up to buying something like the Light Sussex which is a dual purpose bird - we've not managed to do that yet, they're so pretty

 

You could put 3/4 in an Eglu - we have bought 12 at a time and use a small wooden shed now.

[Lesley]

Fantastic thread and some great debating going on here.

 

Lesley, would we be able to keep both our layers and meat chickens in the same enclosure and feed them the same food?

 

We do not have that much space, so would rather not split our layers enclosure in half to accomodate meat birds .

 

Paul.

 

Hmmmmmm not impossible but it might prove difficult to introduce them to your existing hens Also, the growers need growers pellets not layers. It would probably be better to divide the run. We divided ours 1/3 and 2/3 and put the Eglus (layers) and Ark (growers) onto platforms so that the hens had the extra space underneath.

 

If you choose the Ross/Cob type then you would be growing them on for two to three months only at a time.

[Cinnamon]

We are trying to build up to buying something like the Light Sussex which is a dual purpose bird - we've not managed to do that yet, they're so pretty

 

You could put 3/4 in an Eglu - we have bought 12 at a time and use a small wooden shed now.

 

Thanks Lesley.

Yes,we will be waiting until next summer to do this - we need to sort out their pen & housing first,& do some major garden clearing!

 

I like the Sussex too,in fact we nearly bought one when we got our last lot of layers & they are so pretty.Maybe a plainer looking bird would be better to start off with

 

The baby Bantams were only a few weeks old when we got them.At what age are your eaters ready to be....er...eaten?

Do you treat them differnently in any way to your layers (apart from not naming them,that is?)

 

I had better look into getting a chest freezer for the garage too

[Lesley]

We feed them growers pellets for about 2 weeks and then gradually add mixed corn until, they are on half and half by about 6 weeks old.

 

They can be ready any time from 8 weeks - longer for normal sized chickens like the Sussex. We despatched some at 9 months earlier this year and they were roasted and still very tender and not stringy at all.

 

There is a photo of the ones that went on Tuesday in the Good Life topic - the middle one weighs 7 and a half pounds

[Lesley]

The last 6 had to go yesterday - please PM me if you want to hear about it.