My eco solution to rat problems

[Paul Peacock]

This great big man - he was bigger than me, came in a truck with two boxes. One was the big box thingy - I am not sure if I am right calling it a brood box, and a lot of frames to make up.

 

The first impression is this hive is big - well it is big. There is dividing wall to make two brood boxes, so you have two hives.

 

It is solid. The brood frames are deep Hoffman frames and the supers - or honey box frames are ordinary half sized Hoffmans.

 

The frame wood is better than I have been buying, easy to fit. The foundation on the super frames is unwired, but the deep brood frames are wired.

 

In effect you have two hives with two entrances. A neat entrance stopper which doubles as a wasp gate is fixed on either side. There are four honey boxes that stack, and these amount to two ordinary supers on a hive. Likely as not you will want to buy more.

 

Generally speaking this will be a warm hive. AND although it looks like a Dartington, as far as the bees go it actually works like a National. The bees go up, into the brood box and then up into the supers, not horizontally. Well I think this is true, I only got it today. One criticism I heard of the Dartington was that it is a horizontal hive - but as far as I can see, we have been keeping bees this way for millennia.

 

First Impressions:

 

Despite the fact that you can buy or make cheaper hives, this is value for money.

 

It's well built.

 

It is well thought out.

 

It is big and will keep a big colony.

 

You can split colonies - I think - will have to think about this bit in detail.

 

You might be able to use it as an engine for rearing queens.

 

It will be good for use in schools - what would be good, Omlet fellas, is a new design Inspection Hive for schools.

 

They are making shorter legs for children /wheelchair access.

 

The supers (soz, honey boxes) are lighter than National supers, ideal for kids and ladies.

 

(Sorry ladies)

 

You will need some other box to put bees in when you are cleaning the hive for disease control.

 

The varroa floor looks like a mezzanine in a factory, it is so strong.

 

Who would I recommend it for?

 

Beekeeping associations to show people beekeeping.

 

Schools and hospitals for education - it's easier to open and show without having to dismantle the hive.

 

Garden beekeepers where there is room, it looks cool and strong and I bet the neighbours would like it over a collection of wooden hives - they probably wouldn't know what it was.

 

Wish List

 

A double sized super - just for the hell of it - making it easier to have double supers on either side of the box.

 

A girt big metallic hook to hang my smoker on. (Im old fashioned, I like lighting my smoker over using the canned stuff)

 

Somewhere to stick a web cam so schools can see inside the hive all the time.

 

All in all an exciting day! Off to get my fat fingers around those large foundation sheets.....

[Lesley]

Interesting to hear your initial observations Paul - I can't wait to see one in the flesh.

 

It will be interesting to see how you get on with it

[Christian]

Hello Paul and welcome to the forum.

 

 

Thanks for posting such a positive post about the beehaus. Hope it works out for you.

[Jules.]

We now need a Beehaus emoticon.

 

*Coo ee* FRED!!!!!!

[Egluntyne]

Really interested to read that Paul, Thanks.

[LaPoule]

Fabulous Paul - thanks for this! I am desperate to see one in the flesh!

Do you know if you can stack the supers on top of one another?

[Paul Peacock]

Yes, the supers are stackable. You need to balance each side of the hive so the roof fits. Essentially this is a double hive.

[bronze]

Lovely to hear about someone whos seen it saying how great it is.

 

I did like the article too in HF but didn't find it went into much depth

[Guest]

Great am absorbing all Bee information so look forward to hearing some more on how your new Beehaus is going..

 

am going to pester my neighbour to go back into beekeeping (he tells me it is easy..his wife is not so keen as the bees use to mark his pants...apparently...attracted to the whiteness another story... um)

 

told him about this wonderful new Beehaus(he is impressed by my so let us all know Paul if possible as I will be waiting for more news as to how you get on with this new product ..thanks for sharing it & good luck indie

[Guest]

Paul,

 

You said: Essentially this is a double hive.

 

This is not really the case. Yes the original Dartington concept was that the hive would contain two colonies but that is the swarming technique used (each?) year, as demanded by the status of the large single brood.

 

The sequence of events is that of making the colony artificially swarm, and is basiclly as follows:

 

The brood area is spread much wider than it would be naturally, by moving/inserting extra frames between the majority of the brood and making sure the queen (with a small amount of brood) is restrained at the entrance end.

 

This induces queen cells to be built in the separated brood area (without the queen) and is followed by complete separation into two colonies.

 

The small amount of brood plus the flying bees and old queen at the original entrance end; the separated queenless part of the original colony, comprising one selected queen cell (the rest are destroyed to prevent secondary swarms) and most of the brood and nurse bees, plus sufficient stores, to the other end, with that entrance now being opened.

 

When the new queen has hatched, mated, started into lay and generally demonstrated she is a good queen (temperament, laying pattern, not a drone layer,etc), the old queen is killed and the two colonies are united by removing the divider. The new queen now heads the whole very strong colony (with two laying queens for some time!).

 

The whole brood nest is normally positioned at the original entrance end the other entrance is closed after the bees using that end have naturally died off.

 

Do not get the idea that this is a double hive. It is not. If you wish to run two colonies in the one body, you could, but you must understand that other kit would be required to prevent a strong colony (or both, possibly at the same time) swarming, during spring/summer. Yes, basically another two brood bodies probably needed. Normal beekeeping principles is at leastspare brood boby for each two colonies.

 

Perhaps you could tell us if the new hive could easily contain two large productive colonies at the same time? Possibly needing 3 or 4 tiers of supers - yes, quite easily 16 half supers on at the same time! There would not be the normal horizontal honey storage area available for the colony, so all collected honey would need to be stored above the brood area of each colony. Those elastic bands for the roof may need extending for a start! a consideable potential weight too!

 

I hope this explains why it is not really two hives; the brood body being required for brood and storage, and for swarm control.

 

Regards, RAB

[Paul Peacock]

From what I can make out you can use this in a number of ways.

 

Yes it can be used as a Dartington, with brood supplies and all that that entails as you say.

 

You could use it as a top bar hive and compartmentalise the hive with the boards (supplied)

 

The other us is to use it as a double hive - nothing to do with a Dartington at all. You'd get a very big brood box with very deep frames...

 

Yes, to run it as a double hive you'd need more stuff. Youd need a box to put the colonies in while you cleaned out the hive.

 

You would probably want to pester Omlet to make a full sized super: we have already had a chat, and I bet they do.

 

Actually, it's quite exciting because you can use this in so many ways, and it is likely to become an excellent teaching tool. Mr Omlet, can I please have two more to use one as a Dartington and one as a modified top bar...

 

The point is that when you divide the hive into two, the bees have to climb upwards - they thing vertically and the hive is basically a big national. Personally I'm a little confused about the lots of small supers EXCEPT you can think of the whole of the brood box as being the full length of the hive and have four supers all along the whole length.

 

I showed the hive to a commercial beekeeper, who uses langstroths, and we agreed it would make a great engine for queen rearing. Oh, err... Mr Omlet, can I have another to use for queen rearing?

 

From my point of view it is going to be perfect for use in schools and hospitals.

 

Will it work in gardens etc - yes it will. Will it replace wooden hives, no it wont.

 

My big worry, and what I wouldn't want to be involved in, is closed mindedness. This hive is, and i really maintain it to be the case, good value for money. It is also versatile. For example, the dividers allow you to use it as a number of nucs before separating them out to use in other hives.

 

I am only going off what I see - and keeping an open mind, this is a great product that has good points, and quite a journey ahead of it as people learn how to use it.

[Guest]

For example, the dividers allow you to use it as a number of nucs

Paul,

 

Tell us more. Where are the entrances for these several nucs?

 

You could use it as a top bar hive and compartmentalise the hive with the boards (supplied)

 

TBHs are generally triangular in section, are they not? How do you make this box conform to the normal TBH design?

 

probably want to pester Omlet to make a full sized superbox with very deep frames

 

One reason for the small (1/2/) supers is weight HSE guidelines, particularly for the ladies. Another might be the carrying capacity of a plastic super if it were full sized and deeper?

 

Mr Omlet, can I please have two more.... Mr Omlet, can I have another to use for queen rearing?

 

At half a grand a throw, I am sure he will oblige.

 

they thing vertically and the hive is basically a big national

 

I don't think bees would really care whether the tree (one of their natural homes was standing up or laying down. The comb will be vertical. With any supers fitted the bees will have to climb vertical, as you say; with no supers fitted it will be the same as a National (except longer), will it not and they will still have to climb vertically (or climb diagonally across the frame)?

 

I can see you are 'over the moon' with your new purchase(?) I am glad you like it. It would be a real shame if it did not live up to your expectations.

 

I actually quite like my Dartingtons, even with the drawbacks of the concept/design.

I am very interested to see and assess the improvements over the (wood) Dartington design and how they can be exploited in these alternative lay-outs, but fear they are still just a tad too expensive unless these new attributes are a real step forward. (both of mine together cost far less than your one plastic version).

 

Looking forward to your reply.

 

Regards, RAB

[bronze]

Paul

 

If you get some interesting letters from people about it but no space in your letters column any chance you could post them on your forum. Would be really interested to see what other people think and I've found the HF lot quite open minded

[Paul Peacock]

Certainly...

 

I am not going to go on and on and on on forums trying to convince people who already are not going to be convinced about the merits of the beehaus. Some people will love it and others will loathe it, and neither group will have adequate reasons for their stance.

 

I will only ever post of print things in a positive way because I simply can't see the point in being negative, even slightly negative. I might point out some bad points, but only ever in the light that they could be improved by doing such and such.

[Lesley]

I think that's such an excellent approach to something that is always going to be contentious Paul - I shall watch this with interest.

 

I've given up trying to convince people about the Eglu now - I have both Eglus and wooden housing (which is used on a temporary basis for table birds) - those of us who have them know the truth about them..........we don't need to go on about it anymore.

 

The furore over the Beehaus will settle and it will stand on its own merits.

[Paul Peacock]

Hi Rab

 

I can see you use Dartingtons and it would be a mistake to call the Beehaus a Dartington. It is a different design - it might look like one, but it ain't.

 

In terms of the bees going up, there are a lot of bees that think vertically. My local Bee Inspector )bless him) said that he never saw a healthy colony in a Dartington because bees think vertically. I am sure you would want to argue with that, as would I. We have been keeping bees in logs for millennia. THis is a habit of bees which we exploit when we throw a swarm, for example, but has varying importance according to the race of the bees.

 

With regards to TBH being triangular, why? THey do not need to be triangular at all. I have kept bees in all kinds of shaped hives, but i feel I have said too much already. I am doing courses so people can look around the hive, and so if you'd like to find out more, please book on one or on one of the others.

[Guest]

not going to be convinced about the merits of the beehaus.

 

What makes you think I am not going to be convinced. I only say it like it is. I want to know your reasoning. Anyone could come along and make hideously extravagant claims, not substantiate anything and go away. I just want some clarification and explanation for some of the points I made.

 

I want answers to convince me. Like I said, I like my Dartingtons. The wood based version.

 

Just don't go around making up your 'differences', unless you are prepared to explain them, that is all I am saying here.

 

There is little enough practical information about this product without making up apparent differences/advantages. Which, unless you explain in a little more detail, is what my conclusions must be.

 

'Bout the only thing I know, for sure, at present is that it is a plastic Dartington. Good or bad, better or worse, worth the enormous expense or not, light years ahead of the wood version or not really any better, versatile or limited in application?

 

And you are posting sounding like an expert - recommending it to all and sundry (without even having tried it with a colony 'in-house'), yet declining to give any substantive detail.

 

Please either respond to my queries or retract your claims. One or the other would be fine.

Comments like:'From what I can make out' and then later 'you can' might not be obvious to many but, to me, means different things. Please be objective, not 'airy fairy'.

 

RAB

[Christian]

RAB, it wasn't a dig at you.

 

Paul is just saying that some people are not going to be convinced. The same way that others cannot stand the eglu/cube as ' a plastic chicken house is just wrong'.

 

Each to their own.

[ubereglu]

Hi Paul Peacock, thank you very much for your view on the beehaus. Your posts are very interesting as you are basing your opinions on the actual Beehaus now you've seen one in the flesh, rather than doubts about pictures etc.

 

I love how enthusiastic you are about it too! I'm still got going to keep bees just by reading your thoughts and it being an Omlet product as I wouldn't want to.

[Paul Peacock]

Rab

 

I am not having a go at you, but I do not wish to get involved in a long conversation about this with anyone.

 

Sorry if you don't like it. I was asked about my opinion and I gave it.

 

Whether you accept it or not is up to you. I cannot retract what I said, they are truthful statements - and to be frank, I am not interested in winning an argument with you. I am sorry you may feel that the argument is truncated, but these will be my last words on the mater.

[MedusA]

Thanks Paul for a very comprehensive description of the Beehaus. I can't wait to see one. As someone who has only taken up beekeeping this year (my colony is in a cedar National), it is valuable to hear your comments.

[Lewis]

We now need a Beehaus emoticon.

I can't do a beehaus, but can do a bee

I've asked but don't know if it'll be used

[Couperwife]

ooooh, cute beeeeeee lewis

[Olly]

Paul, thanks for posting about this - none of us has seen one for real yet, and I'm really interested in your thoughts.

 

It's great to hear some positive view about this new product - no doubt there will be some teething problems and it will need to be worked differently to wooden hives, I will be very interested to hear how you get on with this over time so please keep on posting.