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[donald]

Hi

 

Not an expert but was concerned to read over the weekend the number of supermarkets selling Halal meat particularly lamb and some chicken, which is not labelled.Where is the best place to shop. I do try to buy locally and my butcher will be interrogated this week as to the slaughter. Which supermarket chain is best?

 

I still remember hearing a chicken momentarily scream as it had its throat slit(no stunning etc) a long time ago when we were abroad. I wish I could be a good vegetarian to be truthful.

 

Controversial topic or is it the good old British media stirring it all up

 

Donald

[lillybettybabs]

Thats worring ,

Most of our meat is from a village farmer or a farm shop nearby where they raise the animals themselves and slaughter.

I do buy meat form Waitrose and sometimes Tesco

[chickencam]

I think both Waitrose and Morrisons are pretty good at sourcing their meat from this country, and a lot is quite local. I tend to avoid cheap value ranges and frozen meat products, because I thik that they are often from foreign less regulated sources. As usual it is a case of you get what you pay for.

 

Morrisons are pretty good on the cheaper cuts, I find their meat to be of a consistently high standard.

[donald]

I was suprised as in the summer Tesco had a lot of New Zealand lamb joints on really good offer and I bought a few for the freezer but apparently about 75% of New Zealand lamb allegedly is killed Halal etc. Chicken was I think about 5% in Tesco. I was shocked at how much of this was around in circulation. I assumed we had got our act together on our abbatoirs although I do still think there is a place for the smaller local ones(ie less travelling to slaughter etc). Quite upset by it. I have even now started looking at the Vegetarian option again or I should learn to cull chickens and then I would know exactly where they have been etc. Lamb seems to be the most affected and chickens to a lesser extent.

 

Its quite unacceptable isnt it?

 

Donald

[Geoid]

I was reading in the New Scientist that animals slaughtered by the Halal method undergo intense pain before they die.

[Chucky Mama]

It is my understanding from knowing someone that did some work in an abattoir that the parts of a carcass that are 'unacceptable' for Halal and Kosher meat eaters are packaged and sold as 'normal'. This to my understanding has gone of for years.

[C&T]

I think both Waitrose and Morrisons are pretty good at sourcing their meat from this country, and a lot is quite local. I tend to avoid cheap value ranges and frozen meat products, because I thik that they are often from foreign less regulated sources. As usual it is a case of you get what you pay for.

 

Morrisons are pretty good on the cheaper cuts, I find their meat to be of a consistently high standard.

 

 

I hate Morrisons shop with avengence - but I find Waitrose good, if expensive - but as you say - you tend to get what you pay for, especially for meat. Plus we have a fantastic local butchers - the best place to get meat in my view - although again it's not cheap.

 

I do wish they would label Halal meat. I understand there is a demand for it (all be it that I am not sure I agree with it) but give people the choice about whether they want to eat it or not.

 

If you do try to avoid Halal meat, then you also want to be careful what you eat in restaurants. Our local KFC for example only does halal meat which surprised me - not that it is advertised. A colleague who only eats Halal was saying where he could and could not eat. Not sure if they are all the same, or if it is branch by branch.

[The Dogmother]

It is my understanding from knowing someone that did some work in an abattoir that the parts of a carcass that are 'unacceptable' for Halal and Kosher meat eaters are packaged and sold as 'normal'. This to my understanding has gone of for years.

 

I'd heard that somewhere too

 

We only buy local/free range meat from the farmers' markets. My understanding is that Waitrose is pretty good ethically with its meat.

[Charlottechicken]

I saw the article referred to. Apparantly, all New Zealand lamb is halal. However, it is stunned before slaughter, this appears to be acceptable(how I don't know ). The report said all beef sold in supermarkets was not halal. I'm not happy about eating any religeously slaughtered meat though and feel all parts should be labelled. I am buying chicken from the Co-op now and they appear to be OK. We have a farmer's market in Birmingham city centre twice a month and I will now be attempting to source more meat from them, as local non halal butchers are scarce round here.

 

Certain fast food places were also named in the report as using halal meat too.

 

If I eat out, which is rarely, I go for pork or veggie option!

[Chucky Mama]

I get pretty much all of my meat from a local butchers who can trace all of their meat.

[Leicester_H]

I emailed Sainsbury's about this (after the story hit the headlines a few weeks back).

 

 

We believe in offering our customers a choice, and there is demand for halal products in some areas. Halal meat is labelled differently to other meat and is in a separate section of the display. Only meat labelled Halal will be slaughtered using these specific methods.

 

The rest of the email was also good - so I will continue to buy FR meats from Sainsbury's

[The Dogmother]

I saw the article referred to. Apparantly, all New Zealand lamb is halal. However, it is stunned before slaughter, this appears to be acceptable(how I don't know )....

 

I will happily stand corrected on this, but my understanding is that Halal meat is traditionally slaughtered by being bled - the throat is cut but the animal is not stunned first. I'm not sure whether halal eaters accept meat which has previously been stunned or not. As you can imagine, there is a significant difference in the animal welfare aspect between the two.

 

While I am all for much more transparent labelling of food in general, I can't see (going by previous reports - see CM's post re 'unacceptable' Halal meat) that much labelling can be trusted.

 

I have to say that you can't get much more local than the venison that I buy in Deddington - I drive past the fields where the herd is kept on a regular basis.

[Charlottechicken]

 

I will happily stand corrected on this, but my understanding is that Halal meat is traditionally slaughtered by being bled - the throat is cut but the animal is not stunned first. I'm not sure whether halal eaters accept meat which has previously been stunned or not. As you can imagine, there is a significant difference in the animal welfare aspect between the two.

 

 

Yep, that's what I thought too Clare. The report in the Sunday newspaper said a rep of New Zealand lamb said it is stunned and this was acceptable. Mind you the meat is also supposed to be slaughtered by a practicing Muslim as well and some abbatoirs producing halal meat are automated, with taped prayers too.

[Leicester_H]

While I am all for much more transparent labelling of food in general, I can't see (going by previous reports - see CM's post re 'unacceptable' Halal meat) that much labelling can be trusted

 

I think these days large supermarkets couldn't risk mis-labelling food. If Sainsbury's were found to be not doing as they stated they would really suffer.

 

I was pleased with thier response to my email

 

H

[donald]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315278/Top-supermarkets-secretly-sell-halal-Sainsburys-Tesco-Waitrose-M-S-dont-tell-meat-ritually-slaughtered.html

 

This was the article I read over the weekend.

 

I have drifted recently back to my supermarket but now am going to try to shop in our local farmers shop etc again as I know the meat is sourced locally.

 

After all the publicity over chicken welfare etc I thought things were getting slowly better for animals. um

 

Donald

[Bramble]

Im veggie, so this is not too much of an issue for me (other than on general animal welfare grounds, hence the veggie!) but my understanding is that meat can only be accepted as halal if the animal is killed by being bled (i.e. it has to be alive when the bleeding starts). I gather stunning is acceptable to many halal buyers who can accept that stunning does NOT kill the animal (all slaughter requires a further step to kill the animal, whatever that might be) and that it simply makes it more comfortable (if thats the right word) for the animal, those people accept that death is caused by the bleeding, not the stunning. But I think there are still many Halal buyers who maintain that if an animal is stunned it cannot be said to have died from bleeding and they will not buy meat which is stunned first. It seems even in the UK it is not necessary for an animal to be stunned before slaughter to comply with the regs?

[Old Speckled Hen]

It is my understanding from knowing someone that did some work in an abattoir that the parts of a carcass that are 'unacceptable' for Halal and Kosher meat eaters are packaged and sold as 'normal'. This to my understanding has gone of for years.

 

I'd heard that somewhere too

 

We only buy local/free range meat from the farmers' markets. My understanding is that Waitrose is pretty good ethically with its meat.

 

That's absolutely correct. I was told that when I had to do the meat inspection part of my course.

Kosher meat has the blood vessels stripped out and parts of the animal don't lend themselves to that treatment so are sold off as non-kosher

[Chucky Mama]

Whist all this is true and upsetting for those that don't wish to be involved in eating this meat unknowingly, I do think it is important to appreciate that it is both Kosher and Halal meat that is involved and has been for a very long time. Meat resulting I can't help wondering why the mention of Kosher meat has been left out of this report

[Charlottechicken]

From a cynical point of view, it is far more newsworthy to bash Islam (over and over again ). However, I believe that producing kosher meat is a little more involved (therefore more expensive to produce so not so much on the market)and imagine that the discarded parts of kosher slaughtered animals might only be suitable for pet food? If they are though, and I understand that the discarded parts are not classed as kosher even though they are from a ritually slaughtered animal, they should still be labelled, surely?

[sadietoo]

I heard a report on the Food Programme...must have been three or four years ago...that said all the meat on board Royal Navy vessels was Halal This made be very cross at the time and it still does. Not only are we living in 2010 with laws in place to supposedly protect animal welfare, but apparently our own government isn't too fussed about adhering to its own laws... just shows that they really are only prepared to pay lip service to animal rights....

[Scary Mary]

Waitrose have always been my supermarked of choice, so I fround this response to my query regarding halal meat deeply distrubing.....

 

Firstly and most importantly, animal welfare is our top priority. We do not allow Waitrose animals to be slaughtered without pre-stunning. It is important to note that there are two methods of Halal slaughter; pre-stunned and non-stunned. All Waitrose lamb is pre-stunned and will have been rendered insensible to pain in line with the recommendations from Compassion in World Farming and the RSPCA. We have allowed the halal blessing at the point of slaughter so that abattoirs can sell the parts of the animal that we cannot sell therefore minimising food waste.

 

Aside from the blessing, the method of slaughter would not differ from non-halal slaughter. Our priority at slaughter for all meat is the welfare of the animal and have insisted that all of our abattoirs are independently assessed by the Humane Slaughter Association which is a voluntary measure.

 

We have consistently been recognised in the industry as the leaders in animal welfare, having recently won 'Most compassionate supermarket' from Compassion in World Farming.

 

The trouble is I find this method of slaughter deeply repellant so it looks like Lamb is off the menu for a while!

[Leicester_H]

Hi

I have emailed Sainsbury's again asking for there response to this article.

 

This is something I feel very strongly about and and in the process of writing a letter to my MP to press for legally enforceable labbeling concerning this.

 

H

[chickencam]

I don't know much about this, but I did watch the 'kill it cook it eat it' programmes, and I thought that most animals were stunned and then their throats were cut and the carcass bled? I can see the objection to non-stun slaughter, but thought that stunning was the standard method.

 

Edited to add that i like to buy free range chicken, pork etc from the supermarkets, because I like to think that the more demand there is for good animal welfare the more they will have to demand this from their suppliers.

[kinsk]

I've started buying pretty much all my meat from our butcher for this very reason.

 

I've also read an article about bit's of halal/kosher meat that can't be sold making their way into unlabelled products. I absolutely object to this method of slaughter and find it a case of 'one rule for one and one for another' depending on what religion you are. We either have humane standards to adhere to or we don't.

 

There is also talk that pretty much all airplane food will also be changed to halal meat.

 

I don't trust labelling either and the Waitrose reply suggests that they do sell unlabelled halal meat! But from experience, Gloucestershire old spot members, their labelling honesty leaves a lot to be desired. The society has had to go through a lengthy and costly legal battle as their old spot sausages were from animals sired by an old spot so not a pedigree breed as they were making out.

 

I'm not sure how far the mislabelling argument would go as it's only wrong to label a product as something it's not. If say organic apples were only labelled as apples no one would really kick up a fuss.

 

Something does need doing though so that people can make an informed choice as to whether they want to support this method of slaughter.

[Cinnamon]

the Waitrose reply suggests that they do sell unlabelled halal meat!

 

 

Does it?

Am I missing something?

 

I am going to ask about this at work this evening I think (I work for Waitrose),to see what is being said.