Solving Omlet Smart Auto Door Timing Issues with Alexa Routines

[chickencam]

It does seem to be cleverly worded and it's more a matter of what it doesn't say than what it does.

[Leicester_H]

I'm not sure how far the mislabelling argument would go as it's only wrong to label a product as something it's not. If say organic apples were only labelled as apples no one would really kick up a fuss..

 

According to Compassion in World Farming

http://www.ciwf.org.uk/news/compassion_news/plea_on_unstunned_halal_and_kosher_meat.aspx

 

The law requires animals to be stunned (rendered unconscious) before slaughter. However, the law gives an exemption to the normal rule that all animals be pre-stunned, allowing for animals to be slaughtered without pre-stunning for Halal meat for Muslim communities and Kosher meat for Jewish communities.

and

This law is designed to ensure that meat from animals that have not been pre-stunned does not reach the general market for consumption by non-Muslim and non-Jewish communities. We have recently written to the Minister of State at Defra (Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) Jim Paice MP calling for the law to be upheld so that meat from unstunned animals is not sold or served to the general public but only to Muslims and Jews.

 

So if eg.

the Waitrose reply suggests that they do sell unlabelled halal meat!

it would seem that the law IS being broken - we simply need it to be properly enforced.

 

I don't see why the law is not currently being enforced ?

 

H

[kinsk]

So if eg.

the Waitrose reply suggests that they do sell unlabelled halal meat!

it would seem that the law IS being broken - we simply need it to be properly enforced.

 

I don't see why the law is not currently being enforced ?

 

H

 

agree, from what you have found then it is illegal to sell halal and kosher meat unlabelled. In which case more of a fuss needs to be made so that the law is enforced.

[Cinnamon]

I MUST really be missing something then

 

The Waitrose response says that none of their animals are slaughtered without stunning & that this is the same as usual slaughter methods,apart from the prayer which is included so that they can minimise food waste.

 

So where does the problem lie exactly?

[C&T]

the Waitrose reply suggests that they do sell unlabelled halal meat!

 

 

Does it?

Am I missing something?

 

I am going to ask about this at work this evening I think (I work for Waitrose),to see what is being said.

 

 

I'm missing it too. They say "Aside from the blessing, the method of slaughter would not differ from non-halal slaughter." So I guess it depends on what your issue is with halal meat.

 

Is it the prayer, or is it the slaughter method? If the Slaughter method is the same, and the only difference is that an animal has a prayer said over it as it is slaughtered, then personally I don't have a problem if that product is not labelled differently... after all, it isn't different. Unles your issue is with the Prayer.

 

If the animal was not stunned prior to a "halal" slaughter, that is when I have the issue, and want seperate labelling.

 

I choose to eat meat - therefore accept that the animal has to die somehow. As long as that is quick and as painless as possible (and of course the animal has had a good life prior to dying), I am happy, and stunning seems to offer that??

 

EDIT: Clashed with Cinnamons response!

[Leicester_H]

They may be stunned (not sure if Muslims would accept this as Halal but thats what Wiatrose say so lets leave that for now) but as the next posting on the Waitrose message board says

So slashing the animal's throat and letting it slowly bleed to death is the standard method of slaughter in the western world then?

 

I would like to know more of the fact (unpleasant as they may be) and have adequate labelling so that I can make my own informed decision.

 

H

[C&T]

OK - so the issue isn't whether the meat is Halal, or Kosher. The issue is the slaughter method?

 

In which case, accurate labelling of just the Halal/Kosher meat is not going to solve that problem, if all the animals are slaughtered in the same way, whether they are Halal/Kosher or not? (With the exception of the prayers)

[Leicester_H]

OK - so the issue isn't whether the meat is Halal, or Kosher. The issue is the slaughter method?

 

I wasn't aware that this was the normal method of slaughter in the UK (pre Halal/Kosher) ? Isn't it the method of slaughter that makes it Hala or Kosher ?

[kinsk]

I MUST really be missing something then

 

The Waitrose response says that none of their animals are slaughtered without stunning & that this is the same as usual slaughter methods,apart from the prayer which is included so that they can minimise food waste.

 

So where does the problem lie exactly?

 

"The stun used is a very low voltage that knocks the animal out for around 15-20 seconds. After 20 seconds it is potentially back to normal and during that 20 seconds it is alive and breathing. This means that when the animal is cut it still bleeds the animal properly."

 

Taken from a halal producer. It takes a lot longer than 20 seconds for an animal to bleed out. For meat to be acceptable as halal or kosher the animals heart has to still be beating whilst the blood drains, otherwise it is seen as being unclean.

 

I guess the safest way to avoid eating it is to stick to pork!

[C&T]

OK - so the issue isn't whether the meat is Halal, or Kosher. The issue is the slaughter method?

 

I wasn't aware that this was the normal method of slaughter in the UK (pre Halal/Kosher) ? Isn't it the method of slaughter that makes it Hala or Kosher ?

 

 

Yes - but if the same method is used for all (as per the Waitrose quote) as a compromise has been found in stunning the animal prior to the throat being cut, so (in theory at least) meaning that all parties are happy, then it all becomes a bit "irrelevant" as to whether the meat is officially Halal/Kosher or anything else. There is no difference. And by following this process, they claim much more of the animal is used, avoiding waste, which is one of my pet hates (if you are going to kill an animal to eat it, eat all of it!!)

 

The issue is whether you are happy how that animal has died. Do you accept Waitrose's method of slaughtering, or do you find an alternative meat source, where the animals are culled in a different way, that appears more acceptable?

 

Personally, I have not experienced slaughter at first hand, so struggle to really know what is the "best" method. My exception is Halal meat that has not been stunned, but bled. I want to know that and make a choice if I want to buy/eat that or not.

[The Dogmother]

When I went to watch the proceedings at a nearby abattoir once, they slaughtered their meat by first stunning, then using a bolt gun, so a very fast end and the stunning first meant less distress to the animal concerned. A lot of meat is hung, unbled, which adds to the flavour - remember in the old days when your beef was hung for 3 weeks and was very red rather then the insipid pink stuff we see so much of now?

 

While I don't have an issue with stunned Halal meat, I am against unstunned ritual slaughtering. I am also not happy about any discrepancy in labelling by supermarkets. Something to be take up with your MP, I think.

[Leicester_H]

When I went to watch the proceedings at a nearby abattoir once, they slaughtered their meat by first stunning, then using a bolt gun, so a very fast end and the stunning first meant less distress to the animal concerned. A lot of meat is hung, unbled, which adds to the flavour - remember in the old days when your beef was hung for 3 weeks and was very red rather then the insipid pink stuff we see so much of now?

 

Something to be take up with your MP, I think.

 

Quite agree. As little stress as possible. Stun. Bolt. Quick death.

I do not like compromise of stun , slit throat etc. - I do not think this is acceptable and I think many people will agree - which is why it has been kept quiet.

 

If this is Waitrose's method for all animals, I shall find alternative supplier.

If all Sainsbury's lamb is halal, I shall not buy it (I am waiting to hear back from them)

 

I will be crafting a letter to my MP.

 

H

[The Dogmother]

If enough people write to their MP, then they might launch an investigation; I wouldn't be too hopeful though as they will be wary of anything that might possibly be construed as being anti-moslem, or anti-anyone for that matter. They have to be seen as being all-inclusive.

[sadietoo]

If enough people write to their MP, then they might launch an investigation; I wouldn't be too hopeful though as they will be wary of anything that might possibly be construed as being anti-moslem, or anti-anyone for that matter. They have to be seen as being all-inclusive.

 

I agree Claret. Isn't it a pity though that they aren't more concerned with adhering to the law. You know, the ones that our elected representatives in parliament voted in for us. Still I guess if the government can pick and choose which laws they uphold, we could all do that???? So I'm off to rob a bank now and retire into the sunshine

[bookera]

Please can I just point out to everyone that "local" does NOT equal "therefore cannot possibly be halal". ALL of the major supermarkets sell some halal meat which is not labelled as such. You cannot assume that 'organic' or 'local' meat is not halal. The point is that it is all about the method of slaughter, not about the life the animal has led or whether it was raised at your local farm or not. So please, if you do not want to eat halal meat, make a point of asking "is this meat halal?" - at the moment that is the only way of making sure, one way or the other.

[The Dogmother]

The good thing about buying local meat is that I get to buy it directly from the farmer and speak to him/her about how the meat is reared and slaughtered - that is an important criteria in my choice of meat. So while I am certainly not daft enough to think that local = non-Halal, it does mean that it gives me the chance to talk to the producer about the provenance of the food I am buying.

[C&T]

While the method of slaughter is important, so is the quality of life before that. As per Claret above, buying from a small independant butcher/farmer means you are more likely to find out about both.

 

I think Halal is a bit of a red herring in someways. Yes, labelling of halal is important if it is non-stunned, but that doesn't mean that other meat is any more "ethical". e.g. I wouldn't chose to eat an animal that spent maybe some its life on the hills (great) but then was packed into a lorry and driven thousands of miles to then be slaughtered in a different country so it can be given the "right" country of origin on the packaging in the supermarket. To me, that is wrong, regardless of method of slaughter, and that is not stated on packaging either.

 

Buying from places that can clearly state the history of the animals life and death to me makes sense - whether that is local butcher or supermarket. Not always easy though!

[The Dogmother]

..... e.g. I wouldn't chose to eat an animal that spent maybe some its life on the hills (great) but then was packed into a lorry and driven thousands of miles to then be slaughtered in a different country so it can be given the "right" country of origin on the packaging in the supermarket. To me, that is wrong, regardless of method of slaughter, and that is not stated on packaging either.

 

And that's a whole other soapbox for me to get on

[Leicester_H]

Buying from places that can clearly state the history of the animals life and death to me makes sense - whether that is local butcher or supermarket. Not always easy though!

 

YES - this is a critical point for me clear complete labelling - so *I* can make an informed choice.

I don't see why this should be difficult though ??

 

I (like other here) am not happy about other practices - but one battle at a time - I think that public opinion is growing on this issue and so this is one we may win - simple complete ACCURATE labelling - is that so much to ask ?

 

H

[Leicester_H]

Until very recently I thought the usual way slaughtering animals for their meat in the UK was by first stunning them (to render them unconcious) and then using a bolt gun (to kill them quickly).

 

It now seems that this method is not at all common and that virtually ALL (?) meat is killed according to Halal rules (sometimes stunned first).

 

I just went to the Farmers market in Leicester with the intention of buying some lamb. The farmer said it was stunned and then killed Halal style. He stated thats what the abattoir in Melton does. He said he was happy with this method and wouldn't want his sheep to suffer. He seemed genuine.

 

I would prefer it not to eat stunned-Halal meat but all sources now seem to be this. I assume even pork is killed Halal style as abattoirs will probably be set up to treat all animals one way.

 

I don't understand why supermarkets are selling Halal meat and not labelling it (is it cheaper ?).

If some people 'require' Halal meat, surely they would want it labelled as such? So they would not buy the supermarket non-labelled Halal meat anyway ??

 

So now I am not sure where I stand on this ? I would like to have the option to buy non-Halal meat as I don't think I could go vegetarian. I don't see why we should have to compromise our standards - the stun-bolt method was developed to minimise suffering.

 

I'd be interested in meat eating Omleteers' opinions. Thanks, H

[Leicester_H]

Am I mistaken in thinking that

Until very recently I thought the usual way slaughtering animals for their meat in the UK was by first stunning them (to render them unconcious) and then using a bolt gun (to kill them quickly).

Is/was this the most common method of slaughter in England or am I totally wrong and animals have always been stunned and then killed by bleeding out ??

[Geoid]

I think you are correct Hazel, but the bolt gun is used to stun the animal.

[Leicester_H]

Thanks Fred

(as I understand it, stunning could be by bolt or electrical)

 

- but how were animal then traditionally KILLED in the UK ? (its this I think has changed but can't find any info anywhere)

 

H

[Geoid]

The animals are first stunned by bolt, electical or asphixiation, then are bled out and sliced up. (I think)

[Old Speckled Hen]

I'm sure they are bled and pithed (long rod inserted into the spinal cord to prevent reflex muscle movements when the carcase is eviscerated)