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[coco]

I was wondering what headcollars if any you use on your dog. At the moment I am using a gentle leader on Keira which controls her from under her chin. I was thinking a bout changing to one that controls the dog from behind the neck. Has anyone used one of these and do they give better control.

[Chucky Mama]

Have a look at the Canny Collar and see if that is the sort of thing that you are after.

[Lesley]

I have Gencons for both our dogs - the only head collar which Jazz will keep on and which prevents pulling. Jazz would pull hard in any other we tried and also would get them off in seconds. The Gencon goes into a slip lead if the dog does get it off their muzzle.

 

I don't know if the eiste has changed - when I got mine last year you had to print off an order form and post it with a cheque - it was still quick delivery though.

 

I can walk either dog now, even with my dodgy knee, without worrying about being pulled over. I have the All-in-One which forms the lead as well.

http://www.gencon-allin1.co.uk/

[lillybettybabs]

I have never used one as i'm not a fan of using gadget on animals,

There are some very good training techniques that don't require gadgets just time and patients.

[Rhapsody]

I use a Gencon on Zeus on the few occasions he ever needs to go on the lead, it stops 43kg of bulldog from towing me along like a kite and because it goes around his mouth I find that people are less scared of him too (little do they know he is a big girls blouse!)

[beach chick]

I might have a look at that gencon. Ozzie is sometimes as good as gold on the lead - usually when we do late night walkies, because he knows that will be a quiet trot around the block. but if I take him somewhere new, or for his main walk of the day and we cant just go up to the beach, he pulls so much that it is really not pleasant.

 

I know about training and time and patience etc - but to be honest, he's so good in so many other ways that I am reluctant to put the effort in. sounds lazy, but with 1 dog, 3 cats, 2 rabbits, 10 chooks, 10 quail, 2 kids, 1 husband and a full-time job, something has to give somewhere!!

[lillybettybabs]

The pressure applied to the face of the dog when wearing a head halter can be quite painful and stressful to the dog!

 

This is one reason that a head halter will provide some results in a short period of time with some dogs. The dog pulls out, the pressure on the face plus the strain on the dogs neck muscles trying to keep its head facing forward all add up to pain, stress and loss of drive, there fore giving you a dog that doesn't pull.

 

My prefered method is to work with the dog on a positive note encouraging good behavior.

[beach chick]

I totally agree with you lilybettybabs, and in an ideal world that is what I'd do. in the short term though, if you are walking along a road with a dog pulling like a train I do think that to have some control is better. speaking personally, it would be for a max 3-5 minutes before he could go off the lead - and once off the lead, he sticks to me like glue waiting for me to throw something so he can retrieve ad infinitum!

[lillybettybabs]

Sounds like you little doggie is anticipating what is going to happen next and can't wait to fetch something,

hence the pulling.

[Snowy]

I use headcollars on both my springers. Ruby has a gencon and Candy has a Halti. Candy doesn't even try to pull in hers, she walks quite nicely (albeit always in front of me), but on a collar only she will pull like a train. Ruby still pulled even with the gencon and used to make terrible snorting sounds as she half strangled herself!

I started trying to get them both to walk to heel by using long leads and as soon as they get in front of me I stop and/or change direction. It's taken a bit of time and I have to reinforce it on every walk, but i can now get them both to walk reasonably well, on a loose lead. I've kept the headcollars on though, simply because they are both still so harebrained and unpredictable and are likely to suddenly bolt in hot persuit if a cat or bird crosses their path. At least I retain some control this way!

 

Funny you should mention the muzzle Rhapsody - when we were out the other day a mother warned her daughter not to come near us because " they must be vicious because they are both wearing muzzles!!" I hadn't realised that they would be confused by people, not sure i like my girlys being branded vicious, but I suppose that is better than children throwing themselves at them

[Jules.]

I use a Gencon on Zeus on the few occasions he ever needs to go on the lead, it stops 43kg of bulldog from towing me along like a kite and because it goes around his mouth I find that people are less scared of him too (little do they know he is a big girls blouse!)

 

Oh Rhapsody, you have a fantastic way of putting things.

You make me

[lillybettybabs]

II started trying to get them both to walk to heel by using long leads and as soon as they get in front of me I stop and/or change direction. It's taken a bit of time and I have to reinforce it on every walk, but i can now get them both to walk reasonably well, on a loose lead.

Welldone changing direction get them to think about YOUR next move not theirs is a good way,

Springers are one of the hardest to stop pulling as they a bred to hunt and quarter infront of their handler.

Most working springers are not train on the lead as the need the drive to flush out birds and this is bred into them.

[Snowy]

Welldone changing direction get them to think about YOUR next move not theirs is a good way,

Springers are one of the hardest to stop pulling as they a bred to hunt and quarter infront of their handler.

Most working springers are not train on the lead as the need the drive to flush out birds and this is bred into them.

Tell me about it! They are not the most focused of dogs - unless it's got feathers! Every single walk we have to reinforce it - but they are getting there - slowly! When I got them, I was totally deluded and thought that, as they were gundogs, they would be as easy to train as my old golden retriever A lot more fun though!

[coco]

Keira walks beautifully on the lead and does everything I ask until we meet another dog then she turns into physco dog. She lunges which puts me off balance, it was actually the dog training class that suggested I use a gentle leader. We've done one to one training with a behavourist, tried walking the other way, zig zagging. distracting her but nothing works. that is why I though if i got a headcollar that controlled from the back of the head it might help with the lunging. if anyone has any other suggestions for dealing with fear aggression I would be most grateful.

[lillybettybabs]

Have a look at these books.

 

http://www.canineconcepts.co.uk/item--MY-Dog-Pulls-What-do-I-do--dog-pull---dogs

Turid Rugaas books have been very helpful to me. She also has one called "calming signals".

 

Or have you tried clicker training?

http://www.canineconcepts.co.uk/item--Click-To-Calm-by-Emma-Parsons-181-pages--kpclickcalm---dogs

Helped me with Dylans hatred of Westie dogs after one attacked me whilst he was on the lead.

[Lesley]

The pressure applied to the face of the dog when wearing a head halter can be quite painful and stressful to the dog!

 

This is one reason that a head halter will provide some results in a short period of time with some dogs. The dog pulls out, the pressure on the face plus the strain on the dogs neck muscles trying to keep its head facing forward all add up to pain, stress and loss of drive, there fore giving you a dog that doesn't pull.

 

My prefered method is to work with the dog on a positive note encouraging good behavior.

 

Have you ever seen a Gencon? - it isn't like the Gentle Leader or Halti - it doesn't pull the head at all - it works on a completely different principle. We have the soft fabric one because Jazz wouldn't have either of the others anywhere near her face, she is fine with the Gencon. Both our dogs have been to training, we have one that pulls and one that doesn't!

 

Jazz had a trainer in Warwick until she (trainer) was poorly and then had training with Patty from Canine Concepts - Jazz has always been hard work to train, isn't driven by food and could try the patience of a saint.

[coco]

Keira sounds like Jazz, couldn't care less about treats and once she sees a nother dog she goes into what our triner called a 'red mist'. Until she comes out of it its impossible to get through to her. Its a good thing we love them regardless.

[lillybettybabs]

Have you ever seen a Gencon? - it isn't like the Gentle Leader or Halti - it doesn't pull the head at all - it works on a completely different principle. We have the soft fabric one because Jazz wouldn't have either of the others anywhere near her face, she is fine with the Gencon. Both our dogs have been to training, we have one that pulls and one that doesn't!

 

Jazz had a trainer in Warwick until she (trainer) was poorly and then had training with Patty from Canine Concepts - Jazz has always been hard work to train, isn't driven by food and could try the patience of a saint.

 

yes i know what a Gecon is, They are not my choice of method as i know of the muscular problems they

cause in a dogs shoulder and back area like all types of head collars.

[karlotta]

While training is the ideal, while you are in the process of training a headcollar can be essential to the safety of both dog and owner. My dogs are well trained (apart from the classic Newfy trait of refusing to come out of water!!) to Gold Good Citizen standard and for obedience but when Martha was younger but already at 65kg a Dogmatic was the difference between her (or I) getting run over. There is no way I could physically stop a Newfy who wanted to go.

 

To preach headcollars are harmful and terrible is awfully counter productive. I thought this forum was about friendly support.

 

Most head collars are totally loose on the head for 99% of the time only coming into play when the dog lunges. You can do heelwork/loose lead training while they are wearing them (I know because I did it!) but you have the peace of mind the head collar brings. A dog pulling on a collar is much more likely to cause damage to the neck/throat, not to mention the damage to your back and shoulders!

 

I'd recommend a Dogmatic -it effectively turns the head towards you giving you the chance to reward as they come into heel. It also doesn't rub the eyes or come off, which can be a problem with big squishy faces.

 

Good luck with finding something that works for you.

[Lesley]

I'd recommend a Dogmatic -it effectively turns the head towards you giving you the chance to reward as they come into heel. It also doesn't rub the eyes or come off, which can be a problem with big squishy faces.

 

We didn't try a Dogmatic but Jazz resolutely refused to move her head round with the halti or gentle leader, she just kept her head pointing forward. She was the same with lead training where the advice was to stop dead when she pulled and wait for her to turn to see why she wasn't going forwards........you could stand for an hour with Jazz and she would still be strained against the lead, staring ahead! Same with the 'turn and walk in opposite direction'.....she just thought "OK - we'll go this way" With an ordinary lead and collar she would just pull until she choked and with a harness she would just pull - taking me off my feet as I don't walk very well at the best of times. Believe me, I spent many hours trying out the training methods up and down the drive We now use the Gencon linked back to the harness and as soon as Jazz felt the soft Gencon close gently over the whole head she realised that she wasn't going to win that one by strength. We used the Gencon/harness combo for the Good Citizens Silver level as each week's training started with the walk along a main road - I really didn't fancy stumbling head first into the road! The trainer was happy for us to use them and impressed at the way Jazz walked to heel all the time.

 

I think if you find something which works for you and you achieve the result you need and have a happy dog then that is best for you and your dog. Finding somewhere where you can try different collars can be helpful - we had a good petstore where Jazz was allowed to show them how to get a head collar off in 10 seconds flat We had to buy the Gencon from the Gencon site first, to try it, and were lucky that it was the one we needed. Good luck with finding something.

[Chucky Mama]

 

To preach headcollars are harmful and terrible is awfully counter productive. I thought this forum was about friendly support.

 

Most head collars are totally loose on the head for 99% of the time only coming into play when the dog lunges. You can do heelwork/loose lead training while they are wearing them (I know because I did it!) but you have the peace of mind the head collar brings. A dog pulling on a collar is much more likely to cause damage to the neck/throat, not to mention the damage to your back and shoulders!

 

 

I tend to agree. Whilst not a user or a particular fan of headcollars for my own dogs they most definitely do have a place in dog training and handling. I see many dogs that walk beautifully when wearing them without any pulling at all. I have friends with heavy strong lab types who are both as meek as kittens when their headcollars are put on. There is no pulling and therefore no fear of damaging any muscles. I can't imagine that a dog that persists in pulling in a headcollar would suffer any more potential injury than a dog that insists on towing an owner along on a lead. I have another friend with a very nervous greyhound rescue who broke the stitching on 2 leads when walked on a collar and lead when he become frightened. He now walks in a Halti and is both easy to control when spooked and as a result is much calmer when walking in potentially stressful situations.

[LauraJ]

 

To preach headcollars are harmful and terrible is awfully counter productive. I thought this forum was about friendly support.

 

Most head collars are totally loose on the head for 99% of the time only coming into play when the dog lunges. You can do heelwork/loose lead training while they are wearing them (I know because I did it!) but you have the peace of mind the head collar brings. A dog pulling on a collar is much more likely to cause damage to the neck/throat, not to mention the damage to your back and shoulders!

 

 

I tend to agree. Whilst not a user or a particular fan of headcollars for my own dogs they most definitely do have a place in dog training and handling. I see many dogs that walk beautifully when wearing them without any pulling at all. I have friends with heavy strong lab types who are both as meek as kittens when their headcollars are put on. There is no pulling and therefore no fear of damaging any muscles. I can't imagine that a dog that persists in pulling in a headcollar would suffer any more potential injury than a dog that insists on towing an owner along on a lead. I have another friend with a very nervous greyhound rescue who broke the stitching on 2 leads when walked on a collar and lead when he become frightened. He now walks in a Halti and is both easy to control when spooked and as a result is much calmer when walking in potentially stressful situations.

 

I completly agree. Our Weimaraner is very well trained and lovely, but while while we were training him I had to use a Halti as he started to do real damage to my knees and back. We tried the 'If he pulls, change direction' and the 'If he is too excited then put him back in car and take him home' ideas, but we just ended up going round and round in circles, and never going for a proper walk!!

These headcollars are tested and if they did real damage then they wouldn't be on the market.

[The Dogmother]

I have used a head collar in the past, and while they are useful to stop the dog from pulling, or scavenging s"Ooops, word censored!"s off the ground, they won't teach the dog not to pull. Therefore, while a temporary solution, there's no replacement for lead training.

 

Jim Greenwood is an excellent trainer - he specialises in hounds, but can train anything. he does regular workshops around the country, and also one-to-one training. He's a Scotsman with an excellent sense of humour.

[moochoo]

My lurcher has pulled strongly on lead since we've had him. I've been working on positive reinforcement methods and change direction methods of training under the advice of an excellent dog behaviourist for over a year. Although he will temporarily improve, he always happiest at full lead length in front of the pack (he's a Saluki cross and by nature will lead the hunt).

I've recently bought a canny collar and it has made a massive improvement to his walking on lead and now he walks on a slack lead this is much better then him straining on his collar and putting pressure on his delicate neck area.

I've always resisted using head collars believing training to be the only way but in combination with the training techniques I was already using it has made a huge improvement. I don't intend to use it for ever but if it teaches him to maintain walking on a slack lead then I can highly recommend it.