Unsecure chicken perches

[Ziggy]

Hi all,

 

I need a bit of advice. It's all a bit long to paint the full picture, so please bear with me.

 

A year or more ago, I used to walk Charlie in the park near us, but he once got growled, snapped and barked at by a black labrador there, and he was still quite young and developed a fear of black dogs, which wasn't helpled by the fact that three other black labs also barked and growled at him around that same time.

 

As the walks in the park got too stressful, I started taking him other places, and very rarely go to the park now. It took Charlie months to overtake his nervousness with other dogs, but he has done really well, and after lunging a few times shortly after those park incidents, he has now not lunged at another dog for months, and walks past other dogs without ever growling or showing any sign of aggression whatsoever. It has even come to the stage now when other dogs can come up in his face and he play bows or wags his tail happily. I was happy that things were going so well and totally relaxed taking him on walks. The worse reaction he ever has when seeing other dogs whom he's not sure about, is to flatten himself on the ground, and even then he is happy to play if they come up to him in a friendly way, and if they appear unfriendly he just remains a little low and still until they're gone. No lunging, barking or growling. Even when other dogs bark at him, he's recently not barked back, just appears a little flustered but when I say 'sh, charlie, it's ok', he calms down instantly. In the park or in town he is always on leash, as his recall isn't reliable, but we take him to fenced fields where he gets to go offleash and we practise his recall, it's all going slowly but well.

 

Recently, I've been going to the park again, once or twice a week, for the last three weeks or so. Today we met the very same lab again, and all hell broke loose. I know it's the same lab because I know the owner. Her dog is always off leash, and he appeared round the path, and he stood still and stood up tall, staring at us. The owner was not in sight yet, but immediately I realised the stance was not friendly, and when I looked at Charlie sure enough he was starting to flatten down. I just did my usual, 'come on Charlie, it's fine, stay by me,' waiting for the dog to go past, but he just kept towering a few steps away and staring, and Charlie was still flat, so I thought I'd take Charlie off the path, round the bushy trees, onto the grass and generaly in a large circle away from the dog and out of sight of the dog. Charlie happily came along with me, reassured not to be heading towards the dog and relaxing, but then immediately the other dog came running towards us. Hearing it behind him, Charlie turned around and found himself face to face with the dog. He was nervous, but I just pulled on his leash and said 'come on Charlie, let's go', and he was neither growling, and the hair on his back was flat. The other dog then started growling and barking in his face, with all his teeth out, and Charlie got a right fright and growled back. I pulled him back but the other dog pounced on him and they got into a fight. I managed to pull Charlie out by the leash but again the other dog jumped on him, trying to bite the back of his neck. The other owner came up, calling her dog, who paid no attention at all, and then shouted to me to let go of the leash. She eventually grabbed her dog and pulled him off, and said to me 'you should not have your dog on leash, it's because he's on a leash that they fight'. Now that's exactly what she said over a year ago, when Charlie had the same encounter with him. And her dog once lunged and growled at mine in the street too when both dogs were on leash.

 

I know all the theories about one dog being on leash and the other not creating an imbalance of power, but frankly I believe it's my right to decide where it is safe for my dog to run free or where he should be on leash, and if my dog was the kind to go and attack other dogs, I'd have him on leash at all times. And I believe the law is that dogs should be in control, not that 'dogs should run free while owners hope for the best'. And I don't agree that my dog being on leash, for whatever reason, gives other dog owners the right to let their dog attack mine claiming it's not their fault.

 

I am not sure what to do now, as I am sure Charlie can't be the only dog that dog ever attacks. I know the lady's name, and where she lives, and I wonder if I should report her. I can't walk my dog at the park again, I'd be way too nervous to meet that unleashed dog again, as he is so obviously out of control and unfriendly. I don't want anything bad to happen to the dog, of course, but I think this person should have her dog on leash. I'm so happy my kids were not with me today, they'd have been totally traumatised seeing their dog being attacked. There were no injuries, thankfully, so I don't know if I can report it, or if it wouldn't be taken seriously. If I was to report it, who do I report it to? I don't want to be mean, but this person is stopping me from enjoying the local park, and putting my dog at risk by not controlling her.

 

What does everyone think?

 

I'm quite upset about it all, and hope it won't have made Charlie too nervous again. We met two more dogs after that on the walk and he was fine, but they were not black labs.

[The Dogmother]

I am so sorry to hear that Ziggy - Charlie has been doing so well too.

 

I have had the same sort of situation with a well known border collie near us, and Ruby is now scared witless of any BCs

 

If your dog is on the lead then, while he may be afraid of the other dog, at least he can't be accused of starting any fights or attacking the other dog. If the black lab's owner can't keep it under control then she needs to either keep it on a lead and/or muzzle it; I would be tempted to tell her this. If the intimidation continues and is spoiling Charlie's training and walks, then I'd be tempted to (discreetly) take some photos of the situation on my phone and speak to the dog warden who, as a first action, should offer to go and have a word with the dog's owner as she really needs to work on its aggression.

 

Do you know of any other dog walkers who have had problems with this dog?

[Alis girls]

i have to say I am not a dog lover partly due to owners like her who dont think of the safety issues. Might be a child next time. DM is right this dog should be muzzled and the owner too Reminds me of when YS was 2yrs old a huge loose dog jumped up him and he was terrified of dogs for yrs. Only now will he tentatively stroke a friendly one. Hope Charlie gets over his shock. I think I would report her, or go to the park alone and observe for it attacking other dogs.

[jasperaliceuk]

You are absolutely in the right and the other owner is completely wrong. If her dog cannot be trusted with other dogs it should not be allowed to approach. The consensus amongst most responsible dog owners, when approaching someone whose dog is on lead, is to ask whether they would like your own dog put back on lead, just in case it causes a problem.

 

My own dog who is cautious with other dogs but not aggressive, is not comfortable if leapt on by another dog, when on his lead. He had a good growl at a fellow labradoodle pup who got him in a headlock but he was only telling him off the only way he can in dog language.

 

Leash aggression is common but I think this woman has got the wrong end of the stick. It means that a dog who is normally friendly to others becomes aggressive when on leash, ie is the aggressor. She seems to be implying your dog is aggressive because he was on lead when he is only trying to defend himself, in being unable to escape. It seems pretty obvious to me that the other dog was the aggressor.

 

Two year's ago my dog had an elbow op and his recovery meant lots of short walks around the park on lead. I stopped to chat to a lady with two collies off lead and a golden retriever on lead. As we're chatting she says 'oh, Maisie (or whatever) is sometimes a bit iffy with other dogs' and before I knew it had flown at my dog Milo. I didn't dare let Milo go as I didn't want him to run. He was trying to defend himself. The woman was trying to call the dog off and grab her and as she did so the Golden Retriever (on lead) joined in the fight. In the end I just bellowed and she got the opportunity to grab her. It frightened me but fortunately no harm was done .

 

Well, that's my pennyworth - just remember you have done no wrong and you have done marvels already with Charlie's training. Just make sure he gets lots of pleasant encounters now to reinforce the good side.

 

Sue

[kazmac]

I agree - she is completely in the wrong. And I would report her to the police.

I had this with our dog who was attacked by another which was off the lead and not under control and the police took it very seriously and paid the lady a visit.

The law clearly states that every dog should be under complete control at all times when out - not necesarily on a lead, but definitely on a lead if there are concerns or issues.

She will also be liable for any vet's bills incurred as a result of any injuries. We'd another situation like this and the owner did admit liability and paid our vet's fees.

Were there any witnesses? That would also be useful. But I'd definitely report her. And she should now be taking steps to control her dog after it's attacked (if that's the first time which it may well not be). Letting go of your own dog is not the answer. What a ridiculously stupid woman.

[Ziggy]

Thanks everyone... I feel calmer today about this, Charlie is his usual happy self in the house, not been out yet, and one of my girls is sick so we won't have a long walk today.

I was telling a friend about this yesterday, who lives in the same neighbourhood, and she says she knows of someone else whose dog was attacked by this same black lab, and had told the owner that she must keep her dog under control, so with my dog attacked twice, and that other dog attacked once, I'm sure there must be other instances too.

I decided to file a report with the police, which I've done this morning. The lady who owns the aggressive dog was walking with a friend at the time, which I told the police, as I guess she could be a witness. Obviously she might not be keen to witness against her friend, but I thought if I mention her presence, the police could ask the dog owner's about her, and she couldn't possibly deny that the attacking dog was offleash while mine wasn't.

It baffles me that people prefer to argue, and not do anything about their dog, rather than keep their dog under control, and then blame the other part for causing the aggression by keeping their dog on leash... it's madness, yet you'd be amazed how often I've heard that argument.

I was hesitating what to do, but then OH was strongly in favour of me reporting it (which surprised me... OH doesn't side with me easily, he likes to avoid conflicts and always wants to calm me down), and I thought this woman has got away with this for way too long, and someone will get injured some day...

Thanks everyone, it's nice to hear I'm not the mad one keeping my dog under control, I'll let you know how it all goes.

In the meantime, I must admit the university parks still scare me, they're full of people who just want a quick walk for their dog but have no interest in the dog or in keeping it under control... Charlie had not been attacked so viciously by other dogs before, but he's often been growled and barked at by offleash dogs coming into his face... so I'll walk my dog elsewhere again... There are some lovely dogs in the university parks, and some lovely, careful, considerate owners, but it's not worth the risk.

[The Dogmother]

It really shakes you when it happens, doesn't it?

 

About a year ago I was walking in our local park with a friend and her dogs when man with a large bull-type dog on a lead walked towards us. I wasn't unduly worried; our dogs were off-lead and bimbling around together. This large dog went for one of ours, pulling its owner over in the process and dragging him along. We got ours on leads pretty quickly and walked the other way, but both of us were shaken - what if it hadn't been on the lead....?

 

Perusing other dog forums, this isn't at all unusual and you did the right thing to report it - perhaps now the owner will get help with training and advice about using a muzzle.

 

Ruby is sometimes very bouncy in her greeting of other dogs, if I see her running up i will call her back and usually she returns to me. When they race, my dogs are muzzled; partly to stop them tearing into the carrier bag lure, but also because they get so excited that it's be easy for any dog to get carried away. Muzzles are compulsory at these events - it's best to be safe.

[kazmac]

I'm glad you've decided to report her. She needs to take responsibility for her dog and her inaction. If we don't report people like that, they get away with it and think they don't have to bother. Reporting her will let her see that the police don't take this lightly and make sure she controls her horrible-sounding dog in future.

Hope you and doggie are feeling a bit better x

[Griffin]

 

I have had the same sort of situation with a well known border collie near us, and Ruby is now scared witless of any BCs

I have similar trouble, a BC once groumbled at Ella and pinned her to the ground, both off-lead at the time. Ella got it into her head then that if she meets a BC she'd better get in there first with the warning She's off-lead much of the time in the woods but if I see a BC I have to put her back on her lead because she can't be trusted not to make an idiot of herself.

 

I'm glad you've reported her and the dog. Hopefully someone will have a word.

[Ziggy]

Thanks for the support everyone.

 

The police has been in touch, and are being very good and taking this very seriously... unfortunately though, things never run smooth, and, not totally unexpectedly, that woman told them I was lying and my dog attacked hers! She told them her dog was totally peaceful, and mine was the aggressor...

 

Police coming tomorrow to see me to talk about things.

[The Dogmother]

I'm sure it'll be fine when they see how lovely Charlie is.

[chelsea]

The dog should be muzzled. We have a rescue GSD who is not good on the lead with certain dogs (she's ok off lead) but she is always muzzled out walking on or off the lead, better to be safe than sorry. It is up to all dog owners to take responsibility for their dogs, I'm fed up with the excuses to be honest!

[Ziggy]

Hi all, quick update. The policeman and dog warden came to visit on friday, just before going over to see the other woman. The policeman was nice and pretty much let the dog warden handle things and do the talking, and he was nice too. All went very well. I showed them the kind of leash I use for Charlie, with the headcollar, and explained what happened, and there was no moment when I felt they were doubting my version of the facts. The warden said that considering how my dog was restrained, the other owner (who didn't even try to call her dog back when she saw him stand in challenging position then run to me and Charlie as we turned away) was at fault, and the incident would be logged, and they'd talk to her to advise her on controlling her dog, and next time someone complains about the same dog/owner, the council will take her to court and impose a leash and/or muzzle order.

So all went fine. I still don't go to the university parks, as, even though this is now on record, I don't trust that woman to do anything she's been told, and I can imagine an incident happening again, and I'd rather avoid the stress and scare! I have plenty of other places to walk my dog, and can only hope that if her dog attacks another dog again, the owner of that dog will have the sense to report it too.

[Lisa C]

It is very distressing when dog attacks happen. I know Tommy can be quite unfriendly if he's on lead, especially towards SBT's (he has been attacked a couple of times) but is fine off lead. I will always put him back on lead if I see other dogs are.

 

I wish people would take more responsibility over their dogs & I wish 'some' dog owners would realise the difference between friendly play and aggressiveness!

[kazmac]

I'm glad your visit went well. And I'm glad the other woman has had a talking to. The police do take things like this seriously. I'm glad you reported her.

She would be very stupid not to heed their warning - hopefully she will, but if her dog attacks again (and I hope it doesn't, for other dogs' sakes), she will be very sorry if she's reported again.

Give Charlie an extra clap from me!

[The Dogmother]

That sounds like a positive visit Ziggy