Chicken pecking

[Helen1976]

Hi, I am very interested in keeping chickens and have researched this quite alot, however, the following is a quote from our house deeds, "Not to keep on the property livestock (including bees and pigeons) of any description other than the usual domestic pets".

Please can somebody advise whether this clause is ruling out the keeping of chickens. I know that you can argue that they are domestic pets but I don't want to purchase an eglu and the chickens and then somebody say that I can't have them.

Look forward to hearing your comments.

Helen.

[SarahJo]

If you are really concerned ask the council. Personally, I am in the same position, and have had hens at the bottom of the garden for 3 years now . Unless a neighbour complains and makes a big deal of it, the council would not intervene, or even know about it. If its only a couple of hens they generally are unconcerned about enforcing rules and regs.

 

Best thing to do is check if you want to go by the book, or go ahead and take your chance, like quite a few of us

[Geoid]

Hens are counted as livestock, but if your neighbours don't mind, you should be ok

[Jules.]

I have no clause in my house deeds about chicken keeping, but would agree with what's been said already I phoned the council as a courtesy, but there was really no need for me to do so, as I know two people in my town who have had chickens in the past.

My chicken's home does not smell, so no one can complain about that (something that the man from the council mentioned, but having said that my friend used to keep ferets & they STINK!), & we do get on very well with our neighbours. We are surrounded by dogs, & the little bit of noise that my girls do make is nothing compared to dogs barking at ever person who walks past

 

[Egluntyne]

Chickens are being kept more and more as pets these days so you might get away with it.

 

I think if you had a flock of 30 they would be considered livestock, but a couple of hens in an Eglu would be more likely to be viewed as pets.

 

Good Luck.

[Guest]

I would quote all the articles in the papers that have been extolling the virtues of keeping hens as pets. They take up no more room than rabbits (remind me again how different the rablu/eglu are!). They are less noisy than dogs, they don't smell more than rabbits, ginuae (sp) pigs etc.

 

I was lucky enough not to worry, my house was originally built to house "farm workers" (yeah right!) and redesignated for residential use some years later. My neighbors have horses in their fields! They certainly smell more than my chooks.

[Olly]

it's not really up the council, unless you are in a council-owned property - it depends on whether anyone else is going to want to try to enforce the clause in your deeds. Restrictive covenants (for that is what this is) are usually imposed for the benefit of adjoining properties. So when an estate is built, for example, the developer will impose restrictions on all the properties being sold, and pass the benefit of those restrictions on to all the other buyers.

 

When was your house built, and what is the date of the document in which that clause was included? The older it is, the less likely that anyone either knows about it or will be bothered about it.

 

If your neighbours are ok with the idea, then you shouldn't have a problem. If you're in an older house, it's fairly unlikely that they know about the clause anyway - let's face it, you only looked it up because you want to get chickens, didn't you!

 

Even if they know about it, are they really going to push to enforce it? I would float the idea with them; chances are they won't even know you have chickens to begin with anyway. Eggs are a really good bribe! good luck - if you've been reading this forum, you'll have gathered that chickens are fantastic fun! let us know how you get on.

[chelsea]

We have our own private house. The deeds do state no chickens and no pigeons. It also says no commercial vans, no caravans and no speed boats - and they've all been broken in our cul-de-sac so we didnt bother worrying when we got our chickens.

 

We've had them a year, no complaints, no smells, I dont think many people know that we've got them!

[Guest]

 

We've had them a year, no complaints, no smells, I dont think many people know that we've got them!

 

My colleague lives in a terraced house and recently discovered her nextdoor neighbor has had chickens for the past year.

[Helen1976]

Thanks everyone for letting me have your comments which have all been very helpful. Olly, the house is about 13 years old so perhaps people will still be able to remember certain covenants.

Chelsea, there are people also on this street who have commercial vans, even lorries, so perhaps we should not worry. I am a worrier though!!

Am thinking that we shall go ahead and get an eglu and some chickens (got to save up yet though!).

Thanks again all and I'll keep you informed when we get them!

[The Pearsons]

And if you get "pretty" chooks (I know they are ALL pretty!) like silkies or bluebells or chooks that lay fancy eggs then they must be pets right?

 

 

 

I asked the environmental planning man (he lives next door to me, but no restrictions on our house anyway - I just like everything clear) before I got my hens, and he said

 

"Why don't you get a rooster? I think they sound wonderful!"

 

He also said that as long as they aren't a nuisance (smelly, noisy etc) and you don't go overboard with numbers the council would turn a blind eye unless the neighbours make objections.

 

No I am not getting a rooster. And the environmental man keeps wanting to buy my eggs from me...... So now we swap - flowers or lettuce for eggs.

 

I just have to figure out how to NOT catch my other next door neighbour (other side) in my garden talking to and feeding my hens She gets so flustered when I do find her leaning over the run.....

 

Helen in Hume

[foreveryoung]

Hi, I am very interested in keeping chickens and have researched this quite alot, however, the following is a quote from our house deeds, "Not to keep on the property livestock (including bees and pigeons) of any description other than the usual domestic pets".

Please can somebody advise whether this clause is ruling out the keeping of chickens. I know that you can argue that they are domestic pets but I don't want to purchase an eglu and the chickens and then somebody say that I can't have them.

Look forward to hearing your comments.

Helen.

 

sorry but what could they do if you were cauht having hens?? I just wouldnt tell them!

[Gallina]

I think we all ought to write to our MPs to get the law modifed. Or to a specific MP: I am willing to set the ball rolling if anyone can recommend an MP who might be interested. This question is coming up again and again, and the law needs changing, not breaking. I would be on eggshells (groan) with my neighbours all the time if I was banned from keeping chickens but did so anyway. You would have to be so careful not to offend them in any way. Even if you like your neighbours, people move. And it is not just next-door neighbours who can invoke the covenant. Someone ten doors or so down from me reckons that my chickens are to blame for his rats, but luckily I don't have such a covenant in my deeds.

 

I am sure that chickens would have been included in the term livestock when this covenant was written. It is only since Omlet was founded about three years ago that people have started keeping chickens as pets, and the law has not caught up. There is a huge difference between having fifty hens and a cockerel in a garden, and just a couple of hens.

 

Given that you can only keep six hens comfortably in the Cube, that seems to be a good maximum number to work with. The law needs to be changed so that up to six hens kept in a secure run and only let out when supervised can be deemed to be pets rather than livestock.

 

I think the supervision element is important. To understand this. you have to think of a situation where something you don't like (e.g. giant hairy spiders, snakes) are roaming loose next door and you had bought your house specifically because the deeds banned them. Some people will be worried about the birds escaping into their garden and damaging it, and a rare few may even have ornithophobia (a fear of birds).

 

Although rats and foxes hang around more when there are chickens, I don't think this is a case against deeming them pets, as the same is true of all caged birds and penned animals in the garden.

[Lesley]

I think that's a very good point Gallina. I agree the laws need to be changed and it needs a starting point. As chicken keeping is the fastest growing hobby then now would seem like a good time to start.

 

I don't have time to reply more fully, just wanted to say it is a good point....

[Jules.]

Chickens as pets is a great way to go, they are educational- I bet not many 3 year olds know like Ethan does that they produce eggs for us to eat. They are much quieter than dogs, & are 5 star entertainment

I do sometimes wonder, though, if they didn't lay eggs would we still have got them?

my girls are pets & part of my family now.

[Hen Watch]

Hi Helen,

 

Another post you might want to read - similar subject.

http://club.omlet.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10387&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[Helen1976]

Hi Henwatch, thanks for the link, very interesting reading. I must admit after researching this some more I am becoming more worried now about the possible rat problem which might make neighbours complain...we do have 3 cats though. Does anybody have any problems with rats trying to get into their eglus, cubes, etc?

[Olly]

I know other people on here have posted about having rats, but I don't think it is inevitable that keeping chickens means you'll have a rat problem. I have not had any, as far as I know; my cat is a keen hunter but mostly catches mice.

 

And you can have rats without keeping chickens; they are just as likely to be attracted to a neglected garden. Don't let it put you off!

[Gallina]

I think most of us who have suffered rats in the Eglu run had rats around our gardens before we ever had chickens. They love compost heaps.

 

The main thing to do if you are worried is to bring all food in at night. No rats have even attempted to tunnel in since I have started doing this, even though there are plenty still around.

 

It isn't so bad doing this: you can then organize a system always to move the old food to their favourite pot, and there is no wastage at all.

 

I have got a bit lazy since having the Cube as well as the Eglu, but will reform if I ever get the new drinker and feeder.

 

Winter is the worst time for rats: there is nowhere more cosy, warm, and convenient to nest than right under the Eglu, with food at hand. So keep a close eye on your Eglu in the cold weather. Thankfully the Cube does not have this problem,

[Egluntyne]

I had a rat burrowing under the paving slabs.

 

I find the best way to keep on top of the problem is to have several bait stations around. Topped up regularly.

 

I tried all sorts of traps but to no avail. Once I put poison down, he packed his bags.

 

I never put unwanted veg onto my compost heap either, I use bokashi bins in the kitchen, and then bury the "pickled" veg in trenches in the garden.

 

I also put a layer of earth over any chicken poo that I put on the compost heap. I read that it puts the rat off the scent of anything tasty, and innocculates the heap with useful bacteria at the same time.

[robskyd]

I've just this second got off the phone to Wigan Council Environmental Health department and they see nothing the council would intefere with as long as the noise and smell isn't a problem, and they don't attract vermin.

 

The guy did say it would be a good idea to tell your neighbours for courtesies sake, which I guess is a good idea.

 

He also mentioned that as long as they are not being kept to breed and sell there isn't a problem there either.

 

My Eglu comes in 2 weeks and this thread gave me a sudden "oh no" feeling!! But I think we should be ok!

[Budgies]

I'm going to be controversial here!

 

I decided that I WOULDN'T tell my neighbours I intended getting a couple of hens before I did so. To my mind, it gives them a chance to protest before you even get as far as buying your girls.

 

When my neighbour went and got a rescue greyhound, he didn't tell me in advance, so I certainly had no intention of advising him I was getting hens!

 

My girls are sometimes a bit noisy, but never as loud as a barking dog, and the odd box of eggs over the garden fence works wonders!

 

Sue Budgie

[Sheilaz]

Totally agree, Sue, although a lot depends on the neighbours.

 

The ones who might well have said something negative (& still might ) didn't even know I had chickens for 3 months. Then they heard a few clucks & thought they were imagining things until I stopped to chat one day.

So, I felt that gave me a safer position if they did complain; how could they be any trouble if they hadn't noticed them?

[Gallina]

I don't think that any council would interfere with hens in a private or privately let house unless they were a serious nuisance. They only have jurisdiction over council houses.

 

House deeds are a different matter. If you have house deeds banning hens, then you can't have them unless you like living dangerously. These deeds are nothing whatsoever to do with the council. If you know your neighbours can't stand hens and your deeds say you can't have livestock, then you shouldn't get them: it's just asking for trouble.

 

Has anyone with such deeds written to their local MP yet about the reclassification of up to (say) six hens as livestock? I have started to compose a letter, but as I don't have such restrictions I am finding it a bit hard to write with passion.

[chelsea]

If you have house deeds banning hens, then you can't have them unless you like living dangerously. These deeds are nothing whatsoever to do with the council. If you know your neighbours can't stand hens and your deeds say you can't have livestock, then you shouldn't get them: it's just asking for trouble.

 

 

I think it depends on your neighbours. We have had our chickens for a year and our deeds do state "no poultry or pigeons", but as of yet we have had no complaints or queries from neighbours and only 1 neighbour has sussed out that we have chickens. I wouldnt class it "living dangerously" as if the worst came to the worst and a neighbour did complain this could be resolved by discussion with the neighbour, or at worst rehoming the chickens with another chicken lover. I think at the end of the day - we have given the girls thus far, a year of a lovely life they would never have had.

 

Its a very small risk in my opinion. as the rewards outweigh the risk.