mullethunter Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I was wondering if anyone had any advice on what might be wrong with or what I can do to help Bernadette. As some of you will know, I've successfully (in as much as she's got better) treated her more than once for what I've thought was sour crop. The thing is she seems to get the less severe symptoms quite often. After the last bout I bought them some new pellets (Marriages), and then she was fine for a few weeks so I thought maybe that was it. But one day last week when I let them out after work her crop was quite watery and she was a bit dull and lethargic, but fine the next day. Then she was like it again on Wednesday (and just followed me around whining quietly). Fine yesterday, but down again today and a bit worse than yesterday. She came out and had a forage with the others, but she's slow and keeps shaking her head and her crop is a bit watery again. Also I can tell as soon as I look at her face that she's not right. Just looks a bit dull and maybe slightly puffy. I've put her and Shelley in the spare run with just pellets and water for a bit of quiet time. But does anyone have any idea of what the underlying problem could be here and what I could do about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beantree Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Sounds as though the bacteria causing sourness are still breeding in the crop. To get rid of them completely needs a diet of water only, so they have nothing to feed on. That will mean her going into isolation and perhaps syringe fed water until she is pooing nothing. That's the way we deal with it. You could try Avipro Avian in the water though as this should re-populate the crop and gut with good bacteria and perhaps overwhelm the bad. Hope that helps. Just to be sure it is sour crop, the crop will be mushy but also slightly warm and her poos will have a 'slimy' consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Thanks Beantree. When she has an 'episode' that describes her crop perfectly. I don't think her poo changes though. After being like it for a few hours yesterday afternoon, she was already a lot better after being in the cage with just pellets and water for 3 hours when I shut them in last night, and is now fine again and crop feels normal. Very odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beantree Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Perhaps she is drinking a lot when her crop feels sour and then not eating until the discomfort has gone, then triggering the sourness off again with the feed. Treating herself it could be. I'd try the Avipro Avian and see if it breaks the cycle. Can't recommend it enough. We've had several eating disorders and bought three birds in with chronic smell and gungy poos and they all improved dramatically 3 weeks after taking it. Note that Avipro have rebranded their products and Avipro Plus no longer contains probiotics, only prebiotics (probiotic food). However the older tubs of Plus will do because they are the same as the new Avian, which is all rather confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Thanks Beantree I'll get some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Poorly again today. Crop is perhaps too warm but although there is a small amount of watery squishy stuff it actually feels quite empty. I think I can detect a pattern in as much as it's certainly more common when they've all been shut in for a day. She's bottom of the pecking order. Could it be stress? I'll have the avipro avian tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Well that was what I originally thought when I thought it was sour crop, and I treated her with Daktarin (not licenced for use on poultry). She got better but whether it was the Daktarin or whether she would have got better anyway I don't know. I could try it again but I think it's anti bacterial too and I don't want to cause too much of an imbalance if I can avoid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavclojak Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I am going to PM you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 I have a feeling I may have accidentally deleted someone's post on this thread earlier. Sorry! Still worried. Yesterday (when she laid an egg) she was much more normal. Brighter and more like herself. They started the avipro dosed water yesterday evening. Today I thought she was ok when we first got back from work. She and Shelly went straight into the Eglu together and I thought they were just making the most of the Wyandottes being too busy to turf them out. They both made happy noises. After about 15 minutes Shelley wandered out having laid her egg. After 2 hours I went to clean out the Eglu, and Bernie still hadn't laid but was back to being really lethargic again. Her crop feels pretty much ok. I thought perhaps her abdomen towards the back was a bit hot and swollen, but now I'm not so sure. I also thought she started in pain when I pressed just below her vent, but maybe actually I just tipped her up? She's standing with the others now. They're all preening but she's just standing with her eyes closing. Can anyone help? Or is it vet time? She's still eating and drinking. This is her poo today. Quite jelly like and a sagey green colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beantree Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 That's a very strange poo Mullethunter, the like of which I have never seen before. Slimy says sour crop and green says infection or stress. The consistency looks like a caecal clear out, a sort of fine paste, but there is too much of it I think? I'm not being particularly helpful unfortunately. My guess would be some internal infection constricting the digestive system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 That doesn't look right, and coupled with her non-specific symptoms, I'd get her to the vet to be sure. Take a faecal sample with you. She has something irritating her gut - that causes the mucus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Chicken vet not working today so we'll be going tomorrow evening. Today she (and poo) are fine again, crop is firm and she's laid. I think it's always a non laying day when she shows the symptoms. Does that ring any alarm bells with anyone? How long should I keep putting the avipro in their water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 You can use the Avipro any time, although ACV is better for digestive issues IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi5 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Best wishes for Bernie and her visit to the vets Let us know how you get on? I'm getting my test results back from the vets tomorrow re- my poorly chick (he was millefleur too!) who was PTS Hope it was something and nothing Thinking about it I've lost 3 millefleur pekins and one hen, Mandy just wasted away, despite many efforts from me and our vet Complete mystery why to the vet and me! Maybe that colour strain has a weeakness??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 I suppose that's possible mimi5. I'll be interested in your result. Bernadette has been totally her normal self yesterday and today and has laid both days. So I've decided to hold off on the visit to the vets for the time being. Now I know I have a chicken vet just six miles away I know she's there if I need her. Between the four of them they've got through their avipro laced water much more quickly than normal water, so maybe that's helped, although I wouldn't have expected to see such quick results. Really am thinking that it's somehow linked to the egg laying process. I'll keep the thread updated if, as I anticipate, she has a relapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 Here she is today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi5 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Ah she looks lovely Just like my Mandy. I didn't hear back from the vets so will call them tomorrow My chicks seem enormous now Eating me out of chick crumb and growers They are getting a mix as I change over to growers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Sounds like a strange mix of symptoms, squishy crop and warm abdomen. Does her breath smell when you think she has sour crop? When were they last wormed? and what with? Daktarin is an antifungal so maybe she needs an antibiotic too. I rarely give supplements and potions when I think they have a crop problem, keep them in a warm crate with water overnight. I know its not been mentioned on this thread but never give yoghurt. I'd take her to the poultry vets with a fecal sample and see what she suggests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Thanks for your advice Lewis. I have a really rubbish sense of smell which only works when it feels like it so I don't know if her breath smelled bad. I don't know whether the warm abdomen was real or imagined. They were last wormed almost exactly three months ago with marriages with flubenvet. The next lot is due to arrive on Wednesday. My initial treatment for what I think was sour crop was just to put her in the spare run with only water available for about 36 hours, then I introduced a few pellets at a time gradually. Then started daktarin the next day twice a day for three days. This did seem to sort her out. I then fed yoghurt morning and evening until you advised not to (no longer feed that at all, it makes complete sense that they're unable to digest it - why would hey ever have evolved to do so?). I used ACV for a few days but then decided that if she did have sour crop that was likely to make an already acidic situation worse. She's now been back to her old self for three days, but if I see the symptoms again she will, as a couple of you have advised, be going to the poultry vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 ACV is used for sour crop because it is an alkaline/candida problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Oh OK. Thanks DM. I guess the candida yeast wouldn't tolerate the lower pH - hadn't thought of it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Yeast thrives in unhealthy, alkaline situations; that's why (in the old days) they used to recommend a diluted vinegar douche to women with thrush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claireabella Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Aww she looks lovely in that photo, what a sweetheart. I'm sorry I haven't got any additional advice but I agree that ACV does work wonders and a fecal sample is a good idea too. The vet did one for Poppy and rang with the results the next day. Retfords offer a good service too. Anyway, I hope she's doing ok! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvachicken Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Can I just ask do they have just the ACV in their water as the only drink available ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 They did whilst I was using it. I have three drinkers (I'm paranoid about the chickens tipping them up / filling them with mud when I'm not in) and put the same in each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
