Chicken Memorials

[Popcorn]

If you knew where some prisoners keep their money you might shudder a little.

 

good job I don't knock about with prisoners then!!! You know some delightful people eglutine

[Egluntyne]

If you knew where some prisoners keep their money you might shudder a little.

 

good job I don't knock about with prisoners then!!! You know some delightful people eglutine

 

My brother is a prison officer....he told me.

[ubereglu]

Did you know that animal testing for beauty products on animals in the UK was outlawed a few years ago and that if you do do it in this country you will be sent to prison.

 

Animal testing in the UK has some of the strictest laws about it in the world and that all animal testing labs are registered and have a license. This license can be taken away anytime and a government inspector can just go to these labs to check them out whenever they want to and if the people looking after the animals don't know what is in each cage and what has been done to that particular animal then their license will be taken away and they will never be allowed to work on animal testing ever again.

 

It's amazing what you learn on a visit to the Medical Research Council. TBH, I think that animal testing being used for DRUGS is ok, as one day I may need them and I will have all of those scientists and animals to thank.

[Louise]

Yes Liz you are correct it is well regulated and no you cannot test cosmetics but sometimes chemicals that eventually end up in cosmetics can still be tested in the UK

 

You are also spot on with the unsung heros of drug creation the animals

[Jools]

Remember it's not just cosmetics to be wary off, it's all household products too. The BUAV site http://www.gocrueltyfree.org/companies.php is a good place to check products against.

 

I'm a fish-eating veggie, but I find it easier to call myself a veggie as I'm very fussy about what fish I will eat - most people think that I'll be happy with a bit of factory-farmed salmon, which turns my stomach just as much as battery chicken.

 

I cannot justify eating meat myself because I can't even watch slaughter scenes on TV, never mind do it myself. My personal guidance is what I will or won't do for myself. If I can't kill a chicken/cow/pig/sheep etc, then I won't eat it. I can catch and kill a fish or collect shellfish, so I am happy to eat them. Everyone is different - you can't lump all fish-eating veggies together.

 

Anita Roddick may not have been everyone's cup of tea and she certainly wasn't perfect (who is??), but at least she made people aware of animal testing in the first place.

[Louise]

It isn't so much the would I be able to kill it and eat that I take issue with Jules it is the way it dies

 

Fish from the sea are left to suffocate as it would be impossible to bash them all on the head first your average man on the riverbanlk would do that so it is fine When I aks why this is more acceptable than a gun to the head most people reply well they are only fish which I personally don't agree with but that is just me

 

Most people are aware my moral line in the sand is alot longer than most but even I do draw the line at shellfish safety testing it is nothing to do with killing the fish it is the way they HAVE to do it

 

Shellfish eat algae which can contain toxins and each batch of harvested shellfish has to be checked to see how high the level of toxins are and this is done using animals I won't go into any more detail if you want to know PM me

[Jools]

I'm not questionning the morality of shellfish toxin testing (or lack of morality more to the point). We all draw our own lines in the sand. I still drink milk & eat dairy products, which leads to the death of male calves (if they're lucky). When I'm hatching chicks I find it very difficult to eat eggs ... but I get over it.

 

Whatever someone's reasons are for not eating meat, they are their reasons, however much of a double standard it may seem. Bashing someone because they don't eat meat but do eat fish is a bit harsh - their life, their choice .... unless they bash you for your standards of course, in which case they are fair game??

[Tina C]

Jools I understand what you are saying but can I put in a little plea here. When someone says they are a vegetarian and then add that they eat fish it causes a lot of confusion. And those of us that are vegetarians then have to suffer comments like 'but I know someone who is vegetarian and she eats fish' (I got that one from a chef who really should have known better).

 

Surely it would be better to say 'I am mostly vegetarian but I will eat...' or I prefer vegetarian food becuase.. ' Perhaps that is what you do anyway and I appreciate that some people could then misinterpret what you say and give you something you can't eat.

 

Please don't take this as a criticism - I am quite happy for others to make their own choices as to what they eat and my OH is a raging carnivore when he gets the chance ie when he cooks it!

 

(I also get uppity about vacuum cleaners being called hoovers, some people call me pedantic )

[buffie]

Just a reminder that vegetarian food can and does contain battery eggs so even that isn't reliable really to choose, without further info when you eat out. Anything vegetarian society approved won't contain battery egg and in fact Mars have been refused the symbol as mars bars contain battery eggs.

 

I think it all goes to show that people have a right to a different view point and this forum allows us all to have one

 

BBx

[Louise]

Jools I am not bashing you honestly and I am sorry you think like that I am merely trying to point out that there is alot that goes on in this world that is worse than killing an animal for its meat or indeed skin for that matter

[buffie]

No we're a friendly bunch aren't we Louise. Just sometimes we read things in a different way to the way that was intended.

 

 

BBx

[Louise]

I think we accept that others don't see things the same way Buffie and that is quite correctly their right but a bit of debate and friendly banter is also good

[Sheilaz]

....I am afraid I get very weary of the subject and my biggest pet hate is vegetarians that eat fish especially shellfish

 

I think it might be this statement that sounded like bashing, Louise! It sounds as if Jools is your biggest pet hate!

 

May I just stand here with my tea trolley & say that I admire you both for your principles and the calm way that you both defend them without causing offence in general. I'm glad that you have both explained how your views have come about.

It's been an enlightening debate. I do understand now why you raised the shellfish point Louise, I'm glad you did. But in the end, we all make varied choices, & Jules has eloquently explained hers. I wish my daughter would be an egg eating vegan.

Our language is so rich in words that differentiate between groups of people, but this can be a double edged sword. We can only be happy with the choices and balances we make for ourselves, not whether it is 100% in line with a description of us.

Supposing I didn't drink alcohol socially at all but enjoyed a glass of sherry whist cooking Sunday lunch? 6 days of the week it would be easier to say "no thanks I'm teetotal" even if it was my own definition of the word...

I might be a carbon conscious cyclist every day of the week (except after the glass of sherry) but I could still be a driver sometimes.

 

Anyway, it's a pleasure listening to such intelligent debate...carry on!

[buffie]

Organic shortcake anyone

 

Oh that's made me hungry

 

BBx

[ubereglu]

Surely it would be better to say 'I am mostly vegetarian but I will eat...' or I prefer vegetarian food becuase.. '

 

That's just like my Mum's boss, he describes himself as a part-time vegetarian. I personally only like to eat meat that I know has had a good life and has been locally produced.