Smart Door Power Options

[Egluntyne]

we are planning to get a dog, and the research is taking me over two years of reading, talking, planning the time, already planning future holidays in this country with the dog for at least the first year, looking for other holiday solutions, researching, now about to 'borrow' my friend's dog for walks in the park and so on, and this is still a year before the earliest we'd get the pup

 

 

Both financial and practical preparation should be undertaken and fully sorted well before any living being is brought home...

 

 

Couldn't agree with you more Ziggy, especially on the above 2 points.

 

I spent 2 years lurking on fora and avidly reading everything I could get my hands on re hens before I got my first 4 girls. I needed reminding of things I'd learned as a child.

 

I also saved manically and was able to provide then with everything they needed.

[Ziggy]

I spent 2 years lurking on fora and avidly reading everything I could get my hands on re hens before I got my first 4 girls.

 

 

I like that expression Egluntine... I do the same... Fora lurkers we are... Lovely term...

[Chickvic]

I too agree, although I did want more chickens after only a few days! I have reined in my impulses and will wait, we are having a permanent run built but I won't increase my flock until I have to (due to losses ) My girls get on fantastically and I've never had any fighting. I also spent a few years lurking on the forum before taking the plunge, I still felt a little out of my depth when they turned up! We have a good routine and I enjoy my little flock enormously.

[Phosphorus]

....but at least you will have done your research Andrea

 

 

Oh boy do I - a dog with a bone is not the word for it. DH might describe me as somewhat obsessive

 

Seriously though these chooks are animals and deserve the best that we can give them - time and facilities etc. Not to be taken on - or shouldn't be, without a good deal of thought and planning.

[MedusA]

Totally agree with Claret's original point and other many well put supporting arguments. Life is (mostly) cheap but the consequences will not be!

 

By the way - love the floral Mod hat, Clare!

[abwsco]

Isn't a lot of the problem all the publicity there has been lately over keeping chickens though? Saying how easy it is, how little care they need,how little room they need etc.

 

Also, talking of dogs a girl my youngest daughter knows has been bought a Husky puppy for her 16th birthday!! They only live in a small house with a very small garden. Lord knows what they were thinking of

[The Dogmother]

Thank you all so much for your support in my 'petite rantette'.

 

Glad to hear that I'm not the only anal researcher around here. Let's all capture and maintain that enthusiasm for encouraging Prudence

 

Oh, and the hat is DIVINE Laura.....

 

So me, don't you think?

 

Those of you who have met me will now be giving themselves a nasal enema with their coffee; I really don't do girlie

[The Dogmother]

Isn't a lot of the problem all the publicity there has been lately over keeping chickens though? Saying how easy it is, how little care they need,how little room they need etc.

 

True enough, but you'd think that people would think 'I don't know anything about this' and do some research

 

Also, talking of dogs a girl my youngest daughter knows has been bought a Husky puppy for her 16th birthday!! They only live in a small house with a very small garden. Lord knows what they were thinking of

 

Goodness! They need so much room and exercise. Some friends have a pack that they take sled racing - very sociable animals and freindly too, but they would potentially be destructive if not exercised enough.

 

Perhaps they ought to be introduced to Prudence.

[Mrs Frugal]

Those of you who have met me will now be giving themselves a nasal enema with their coffee; I really don't do girlie

 

Oh but for that hat, Clare, you should make an exception .

[The Dogmother]

The only hat I do is a vintage chintz sunhat. I never even wear one to weddings.

[Louise]

I banned hats at my wedding Claret

[Ziggy]

I think we'd all agree that everyone should be extremely careful when giving a child any animal as a gift...

I have done it too, my kids have a kitten each (well they are cats now), DD1 has rats and DD2 has the chooks... BUT... although these pets were given to them, I always decided I was first responsible for their care... I encourage the kids to feed and play with their pets, and with a little nagging they do, but when they don't I will obviously do it... they are kids and I find can't be fully responsible for a living being on their own...

 

They have asked me if they'd be allowed to take their cat away when they move away from home (don't they plan far ahead??? pity they're not as good at planning their homework....), which I guess is their way to establish 'ownership' of the pet, and I have told them that yes, they could take their cats when they leave home PROVIDED that it is absolutely certain that they can keep providing best care for them, ie insurance, vet fees, daily care, safe home and so on... otherwise the cat stays here, still theirs, but living here... they agreed it was fair...

[Ziggy]

Oh Claret, yes, the hat... come on, surely you intend to wear it at the next rescue???

[redfrock]

You put all that so beautifully and carefully Claret... it scares me too sometimes when I read what some people, not necessarily just on here, but many other places, ask about animals, chicks or others...

 

Ziggy, I think both you and Clare have summed it up perfectly.

 

I am also someone who loves having a large menagerie and was brought up with one. However we did not expand to this until we moved here where we had a very large garden to accommodate them. I don't have, nor will have, children, so aside from working full time, I know that I have plenty of time to look after them all and now get up an hour earlier to ensure everybody is fed, watered and poo free before I leave for work . I desperately want a dog, and have done since I left home. The running joke is that I am like that advert where the woman has babies on the brain. However I know that we simply do not have the lifestyle for one, even though my job means I am out of the office several days a week and could take it with me. It's the days that I am in the office that would cause the problem, and that isn't fair on the dog.

 

There is also the ongoing costs to consider and the lifestyle changes that may need putting in place, as others have said. We used to go away in our caravan up to 4 weeks a year as well as several weekends. Now this has been reduced to once a year, for 10 days, and the cost for the pet sitter (even on a friends and family rate) who will be coming round to look after everything, is over half of our site fees. That makes it an expensive holiday. Then there are unexpected vets bills, the feed, the bedding, the cost of decent housing for them all. We go out far less now (actually very rarely) and that 'luxury item' no longer gets bought. I know that given half the chance I would have far more animals than I do, and in a different life I will have a smallholding and work only part time, but until then 'Prudence' will continue to pop her head round the door .... and my broodies will continue to nurse an empty nest box.

 

 

(and one day I will also learn to be concise when posting )

[The Dogmother]

(and one day I will also learn to be concise when posting )

 

Please don't do that Hon I love ramblings

[The Dogmother]

This one says it all really

 

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1318502,00.html

 

As a friend has just said - caring for an animal means just that - commiting to their care from cradle to grave.

[missuscluck]

This is a really interesting thread.

 

Well done claret for bringing it up. I too have been a little concerned about all the recent publicity about how easy it is to keep chickens etc, etc. I have also noticed that the 'chicken' section of the forum is very busy latley.

 

Yes, as pets go, they are easy I guess, done with two or three chickens.

It is quite a considerable investment when you start off so I would hope that stops most in their tracks to pause to consider a moment.

I think (hope) most people think carefully before they rush headlong into chicken keeping.

If you want to take things further I can vouch for the fact that keeping livestock on a larger scale is hard work! You have to think things through to the end. Its a big responsibility.

 

When you read peoples forum posts and blogs we should remain mindfull of the fact that it can be a difficult way to express yourself. Sometimes things can be read in a different way to which they were intended. Sometimes when people ask questions, they may come accross as flippant about the matter and that may not be a true reflection of how they feel.

 

I am lucky enough to have had a 'mentor' everytime we have gone into a different area of livestock, which is the best way to go. Not everyone has this luxury.

Those who take time out on the chicken part of the forum giving out sensible advice are to be applauded

[missuscluck]

Oh, and I want a hat, just like that one!

[The Dogmother]

My grandma had a great sayign that summed up Prudence...

 

'You can, but you mayn't'

 

Look at that carefully (as a smallster, it took me years to get what she was on about - it just meant 'no' at the time)

 

You 'can' do something in that it is possible, but you mayn't (may not) as in it's not permitted or sensible.

[lizinsa]

Love the hat and the post claret!

 

If I had my way I would have every animal under the sun, however, I'm realistic and know I cannot have pigs and goats in my small suburban garden! When I was younger we had quite a few pets but that was because we could afford the TIME and money that they required. Now my Mum is trying to downsize the menagerie (by letting nature take its course) so she only has a cat and a dog.

 

I've been wanting chickens for years now and over the last year have been on here, picking all sorts of hints and tips, I even managed to help a neighbour with her chickens. The time is still not right, but I feel I have learnt so much from here and other bits of research, I'm glad I've waited. Mind you, I'm sure when I get them I'll be on here asking a million and one questions, you're all such mine of information!

[Egluntyne]

I think you should wear that hat at your advanced Courses Claret.

 

It would go so well with crocs.

[The Dogmother]

I may just do that Egluntine. It would be the only flowery thing in my house though

[Aunty e]

people breeding cats in their backyards to sell a kitten for £180 pounds... with a few litters a year, that brings a nice little income...

 

I agree totally with a lot that's been said here, with a slight blush for my inability to say no to rehoming an animal, but without prejudice would just like to point out that cat breeding doesn't really make money. For me it's an EXTREMELY expensive hobby. If you add up the amount we spend, it makes no financial sense at all

 

Insurance £200 pa

Regular non-insured vet visits £240 pa

Vaccinations and boosters £100 pa

Worming and flea treatments £130 pa

James Wellbeloved food £360 pa (really good value actually)

Cat litter £120 pa (again, I buy wholesale cheaply)

Feliway £60 pa (essential in a multicat household)

 

That's just the cats that live with us. Now add kittens. Anything to do with cats having kittens isn't covered by pet insurance, so none of the pre-natal checks are covered, which is £40 a pop, we have our girls given vitamin boosters as well, which is £15 an injection. They have to be fed a good kitten food for the last three weeks of their pregnancy, which they eat TONS of, so that's another £20 a week, then a c section can cost £400-£500 (with no guarantee of live kittens to defray the cost). Kitten checkups are pretty cheap, only £20-£30 pounds, but if they need any treatment (like my kittens with eye infections this time) it soon adds up. Then add worming at £20 for a litter to do it properly, the cost of feeding them (they're like locusts after five weeks) at £20-£30 a week, the extra cat litter which is around £10 a week and all the cleaning products you will find yourself buying when they have accidents. I'm doing a load a day just for kitten soiled blankets. In addition, I took two days off work to be near the mothers when they gave birth, and I was lucky, because I can tell when they're going into labour. Some breeders take a week off to make sure they're there. My latest kittens cost around £800 just on their own and they were pretty uncomplicated. Add complications like a c section and it gets astronomically expensive. Not to mention stud fees or buying a stud cat at £400 (complicated in our case by his developing a sensitive stomach and parasitic infection, which cost around £200 at the vets, not covered by insurance, and the sheer HORROR of a house covered in kitty diarrhoea for weeks. He pooed on me as I slept once. I woke up covered in kitten diarrhoea. It was in my HAIR). And there's the heartbreak of stillborn kittens and difficult births which I can't even describe, and the non-stop anxiety about them (maybe that's just me).

 

I'm sure there are ruthless people who try to make money out of breeding kittens, but the people who do it properly can't really make money out of it, they can just hope to offset the cost.

 

Sorry, that sounds ranty, but it's not meant to be, just trying to explain why pedigree kittens cost so much.

[Ziggy]

It's not ranty Aunty E, I understand what is involved from breeding animals in an organised way, with all the care it involves, and the cost of it and vet... My rant isn't aimed at breeding itself, but at the people who keep a couple of cats in their backyard and don't spay them because they get a couple of litters a year and sell them for a fortune, with no jabs, no healthcare information, no vet care for the mum or anything... or people who say 'i'm selling 5 kittens at 160 pounds each, just to cover the cost of spaying their mum', when the cost of spaying a cat is only a fraction of that... I've seen so many odd ads in the last two years, maybe I am becoming over-suspecting, but sometimes the conditions just don't sound right... I'm not sure if the kittens actually do sell for that kind of amounts, but really in the London pet ads, the prices seem to be anywhere between 100 and 190 pounds depending on colour, for unwanted litters from plain good old moggies who haven't been neutered for some reason...

A guy once advertised (I told this somewhere on the forum before, sorry for repeating myself) that he wanted a couple of cats, and insisted they had to be a male and a female, unneutered, because he loved cats so much and had a small backyard in which they could live, and a box for them to hide in in bad weather, and promised to offer them a good home for 'the next two years at least'... that was such an extreme case, but I'm sure there are people who, when noticing that an average moggy sells for over a hundred pounds in London, will try to make money from this, without providing proper care for the cats, just food... My kittens were given to me by a colleague of my husband's, and they asked no money for them, just a good home, but the cat has had another two litters since and I just can't help wondering... 'why, oh why is that cat not spayed???'

 

Like many people on here, I too would love many more pets... Horse, dogs, goats, you name it, I'd have it... but Prudence, also known in my house as 'where on earth would we find the time', speaks loudly then...

[frenchlayer]

what a sensible thread.

 

I waited ages and did my research for chickens and likewise with my dog, and neither are 'fashionalble' breeds. But completely suit our needs, time and lifestyle.

 

The problem is there will always be those who 'need' the latest must have, and are swayed by marketing, fashion and celebs, and those of us who are sensible, down to earth, think reasonably most of the time.

 

I did love the hat, we are starting a red hat society over here at the mo, and those under 50 get to wear lilac, it would look lovely.

 

thats my piece on this, sat here with my real crocs on not fake !! because even tho the rest of the family wear fake ones I cannot bring myself to do it, I say the colours are better.