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Foul Brood in plastic hives

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As for diseases - and the thorny subject of whether it is possible to sterilize a plastic hive - that is much more complex than what has so far been posted here - but your beekeeping practices should always be aimed at keeping bees healthy, so diseases have no opportunity to take hold.

 

If you want to find out more, there is a busy site at http://www.naturalbeekeeping.org that has a lot of free information and lots of help for beginners.

 

That's actually a very good way of thinking about it: think of the bees and not the honey, just as we think of the chooks and not the eggs (they're a bonus :) ).

 

I suppose your other message, beesontoast, that chimes really well with omleteers is preventing problems by good husbandry, rather than solving problems that arise. We live and breathe that one ourselves: checking your stock regularly, sterilising/cleaning equipment, noticing the subtle changes that occur and leaping in to take action before things get difficult and keeping housing spotless and parasite/bacteria free.

 

Yes there will be beehaus purchases made that are a bad decision, just as we're all aware of the bad eglu purchases and people who give up very quickly when they realise it's not for them (sadly, sometimes they don't give up quickly enough before chook-welfare is compromised). I don't think there's anyone like that on this forum: they are the ones who don't join or stick around to take advantage of the knowledge and experience of more 'senior' omleteers. In the same way we've had rescues, local BKAs will be having to save situations that got out of hand. All of these rescues are disappointing: but do they outnumber the successes?

 

I can say personally that my support of omlet products for chook-keeping is exactly because I absolutely believe - ABSOLUTELY - that this is the best product for chicken welfare i can buy: my chickens will not be at the same risk from potential ill health or death due to parasites and bacteria that a more traditional wooden house is more inclined to jsut because I can clean it so easily and thoroughly.

 

Now i don't know if the same applies to the beehaus, I'm not knolwedgable or experienced enough. I would like to find out more about the pros and cons of the beehaus (and beekeeping) in as open and informative a way as possible. And while I'm aware that i have a positive opinion of Omlet's designers and products it's difficult to get this information when there is so much prejudged negative opinion already.

 

so.... if I join www.naturalbeekeeping.org will i get this? (or will they be mean to me :( )

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so.... if I join http://www.naturalbeekeeping.org will i get this? (or will they be mean to me :( )

 

I will personally see to it that "Ooops, word censored!"ody is mean to you! :D

 

You seem like an intelligent person, who isn't going to barge in and start telling people how things should be done, so just like in this place (it seems that way here), "Ooops, word censored!"ody should have a problem. If they do, let me know. 8)

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thank you! I will be happy to join! I am also very happy to announce that I'm about to become member of the York and District BKA and looking forward to learning a great deal! A future beek is born?

 

by the way - i want to assure forum friends who use other housing that I intend no slight, I just know absolutely that for me and my approach to chook-keeping, the eglu and cube are best.

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Hmmm, Peter has parachuted in with a series of wild surmises and a rather didactic approach which made me wonder about another "agenda".

 

Is this your site and forum, Peter?

 

http://mrratty.wikidot.com/inebg-livestock:keeping-chickens

 

Complete with your idea of what chickens need by way of accommodation - freeze at night, bake in the sun, not at fox-resistant (fox would burrow into the ark), no perches.

 

http://www.newhousefarm.tv/forum/index.php

 

Seems that "Billy Rhomboid" is the source of the disinformation about eglus being made in Iowa. Are you Billy Rhomboid, too, Peter?

 

There is an incredible amount of unfounded rubbish going on on that forum, unchecked. Eg someone has written to Natural England to complain about them associating themselves with and "marketing" the beehaus.

 

I think I know why Peter has appeared here.

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Hilda-and-Evadne

 

 

Pretty sure this poster is neither Mr Ratty or Billy. Billy for a start would say it how it is but he would have done the correct research. I can't see why you would think it was Mr Ratty. A wiki might be run by one person but anyone can edit it.

 

 

To be honest I don't really think it matters who it is. As much as I have disagreed with a lot of his posts I do think that as long as people are polite they have a right to post

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Although the Bees section on here is relatively new it does pre-date any whisper of a new hive and, in fact, some people have been keeping bees for some time.

I appreciate your concerns re people jumping on the bandwagon but I can't see that the same advice is going to be handed out to all the people who will be doing exactly the same after all the media coverage but who buy a wooden hive? I've yet to see a disclaimer on any of the bee keeping forums that I've looked at asking people to think before they buy a National and make sure they haven't just jumped in and bought a hive because of all the media hype?

 

So, the fall-out from this will be a massive short-term shortfall in the ability of local bee keeping associations to provide training, which is not being funded by anyone and is almost entirely voluntary, followed by the old story of falling numbers.

 

I would have thought that the courses are self-funding? We've done a 6 week course at Stoneleigh followed the next year by a 4 week course plus apiary visits with the local Assoc. We've had to pay a decent amount to attend these which I would have thought more than covered the outlay on hire of premises and expenses for speakers etc.

 

There has been quite a bit of media coverage on the lack of bees for well over a year and a lot more interest in courses - I would have thought there was no need for there to be a shortfall for courses starting early next year?

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so.... if I join http://www.naturalbeekeeping.org will i get this? (or will they be mean to me :( )

 

I will personally see to it that "Ooops, word censored!"ody is mean to you! :D

 

You seem like an intelligent person, who isn't going to barge in and start telling people how things should be done, so just like in this place (it seems that way here), "Ooops, word censored!"ody should have a problem. If they do, let me know. 8)

 

Hi beesontoast - thanks for the direction to this site.

 

I am fascinated by the biobeekeeping ethos; Phil's blog and the Friends of the Bees movement: I haven't ever encountered some of these ideas before and I'll be fascinated to read even more! It will be an interesting balance to my 'intro to beekeeping course' (which will, no doubt, focus on honey production) to consider a more holistic approach. Having seen a skep at the first beekeeping talk I went to i could see where this approach could go :think:

 

So all well and good and I'm beginning to see where a different approach might be interesting to follow.

 

Disappointing however to see the site admin, biobees posting:

 

Quote:

p.s. We are also looking for beekeepers who would like to host beekeeping courses - called beehaus parties.

 

Proof - if it were needed - that they are going for the Kensington set!

 

"Daaahling, such a sweet little beehive! I simply must have one to match my new dress!"

 

I've never considered myself one of the Kensington set, whoever they might be. So do I understand this to mean that as long as i follow your approach I'm a 'sound' human being but if I consider attending a beehaus party to find out more then I become a figure of mockery?

 

I thought you promised no one would be mean to me?

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You'll find that on all the beekeeping forums at the moment Laurie - if pushed, they will deny that the comments are personal attacks. All the beekeepers I've met in real life have been really nice and willing to help newbies - perhaps it's just a forum thing :?

 

There is an apiary meeting next weekend - I think I'll mention the Beehaus and see what the reaction is........and then decide how widespread the feeling is (and probably, whether I want to be part of an Assoc. with such closed minds - if they follow the same lines as the forums) . I know it is the Beehaus that has been all over the media this week but as I said, "Ooops, word censored!"ody will be questioning the person who goes out and buys a National on the back of all the hype :?

 

I will be following the forums - but I'm not posting anymore. I'm interested to see how the Beehaus performs and will wait to read that from someone who actually knows what it is they are talking about :roll:

 

It will be a shame if all this negativity actually puts people off keeping bees when there is a need for all of us to do something, if only to plant up a more bee friendly environment.

 

Try not to let the forums put you off Laurie - there is a wealth of information on them.

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Quote:

p.s. We are also looking for beekeepers who would like to host beekeeping courses - called beehaus parties.

 

Proof - if it were needed - that they are going for the Kensington set!

 

"Daaahling, such a sweet little beehive! I simply must have one to match my new dress!"

 

I've never considered myself one of the Kensington set, whoever they might be. So do I understand this to mean that as long as i follow your approach I'm a 'sound' human being but if I consider attending a beehaus party to find out more then I become a figure of mockery?

 

I thought you promised no one would be mean to me?

 

Please don't confuse joshing with 'being mean' - unless you suffer from a complete lack of sense of humour - which I'm sure you don't.

 

The response you quote was simply poking fun at the picture conjured up by idea of 'beehaus parties' - urbanites clutching glasses of champers standing around a brightly coloured hive... :lol: Any real beekeeper would find that hilarious, I think!

 

Don't worry, anyone who is mean to you will be told off.

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Well said Beesontoast :P

 

I think that we have to take any seemingly negative comments with a large pinch of salt for the moment.

 

If any of you were around when the Eglu was first launched, I am sure you will remember that backlash & comments that were made, & that are still made today sometimes :?

 

The Beehaus is so very new & so different in many ways, that there will be people who are against it, or who can't get their heads around it at all. Comments will be made, both teasingly & in earnest, & that's something we will have to take on the chin :lol:

 

I think we have a couple os super new forum members here, who obviously both have a wealth of knowledge in Beekeeping, & I for one am really excited about what the future for this part of the forum holds 8)

 

By the way Beesontoast, no Omlet forum member has a lack of a sense of humour - its a prerequisite for joining up 8):lol:

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You'll find that on all the beekeeping forums at the moment Laurie - if pushed, they will deny that the comments are personal attacks. All the beekeepers I've met in real life have been really nice and willing to help newbies - perhaps it's just a forum thing

 

Most beekeepers are I hope ready to help others learn the "craft". I think the Omelt marketing department has done exceedingly well, so the number of beekeepers should start rise next year...

 

However, beekeeping is not for the faint hearted and if people embark on beekeeping they have to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth, as hive temprament can very so much. Sometimes you have to go into a hive in less than ideal conditions. A classic case is when you are controlling swarming.

 

The scary thing is there are a lot of people who think beekeeping is about putting on boxes for honey in early summer and removing them in autumn. You can get away from this in the countryside but not necessarily in an urban environmet when you have to consider you neighbours.

 

After reading a few entries on this forum it is really nice to see people seriously considering things and reading round on the subject of beekeeping.

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Glad to see this thread has now gone in a helpful direction. I love any bee honey or not and even though I am not brave enough to keep bees if by reading all this great info I can make sure I plant Bee friendly flowers(or not go and cut the clover or spray chemicals on meadow etc ) in order to help any bee I will.

 

One of the MS units I visit sells local honey and I always try to buy local produce etc want to think I am doing my bit to support.

 

I think my cube is brill and have had wooden housing that ended up on a bonfire!(it was not cheap either..false economy)

 

Good luck with any bee project, I cant see honey bee keeping taken lightly ouch

indie :)

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Hmmm, Peter has parachuted in with a series of wild surmises and a rather didactic approach which made me wonder about another "agenda".

 

Is this your site and forum, Peter?

 

http://mrratty.wikidot.com/inebg-livestock:keeping-chickens

 

Complete with your idea of what chickens need by way of accommodation - freeze at night, bake in the sun, not at fox-resistant (fox would burrow into the ark), no perches.

 

http://www.newhousefarm.tv/forum/index.php

 

Seems that "Billy Rhomboid" is the source of the disinformation about eglus being made in Iowa. Are you Billy Rhomboid, too, Peter?

 

There is an incredible amount of unfounded rubbish going on on that forum, unchecked. Eg someone has written to Natural England to complain about them associating themselves with and "marketing" the beehaus.

 

I think I know why Peter has appeared here.

 

 

Sorry but you are TOTALLY wrong on all points.... and I'm being accused of jumping in head first!

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What I would love to see is people going into beekeeping more for the sake of the bees than for the honey. That means, learning as much as you can about bees and their nature and habits before actually setting up a hive.

 

That is exactly why DD and I have taken up beekeeping. We have been worrying about the plight of our bees over the last few years and vowed to do something about it this year. With the help and support of our lovely local association, which we joined early this year, I now have a thriving colony of bees in my garden and spend hours watching them come and go. I have been amazed at how quickly they have drawn out new foundation and filled it with honey. Needless to say all that honey will be left in the hive for the bees this winter, though I may try and sneak just a little for myself next year. :D

 

p.s. I do love your posting name, beesontoast. :lol:

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I think the point on foul brood is very valid, but it has obviously been thoroughly thought through, otherwise the Beehaus would not have made it through testing and not have gone into production. It has been taken into account, as James has said himself and he has suggested ways to tackle it, which is more than some hive makers would be so helpful to do.

 

I've read through this whole topic and I feel it's been very unjust and attacked many people, which is wrong, as I thought the whole point of this post would be to see how bigger a problem foul brood is and an answer of how it can be tackled in a plastic hive.

 

If the hive encourages more people to start beekeeping this can only be good, but with proper thought beforehand. Again, with foul brood, prevention is the best cure.

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If the hive encourages more people to start beekeeping this can only be good, but with proper thought beforehand. Again, with foul brood, prevention is the best cure.

 

 

Sadly, "prevention is the best cure" is where they are in the USA, where AFB is endemic and prevention is an annual treatment of Teramicin to 'control' foul broods. It is only decades of kill and burn in the UK that have kept incidences low. It's all very well saying prevention is the best cure, but how are you going to prevent your bees foraging on a landfill site, town rubbish collection site, or someone else’s infected hives? It simply cannot be done! It's not someone’s fault if they get foul broods, it's identifying it, reporting it, and taking the appropriate action that is important.

 

I've now received a short reply to my email sent to Omlet last week about this, I've asked for more confirmation, but so far the advice seems to be clean all the wax and propolis off your Beehaus then sterilize with a greater than 50% concentration of sterilizing fluid. No mention of how you get wax and propolis off the plastic without damaging or scratching it, or what chemicals are being recommended to make the <50% solution.

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I think the point on foul brood is very valid, but it has obviously been thoroughly thought through, otherwise the Beehaus would not have made it through testing and not have gone into production.

 

 

Are you suggesting that Omlet have put a Beehaus through a testing regime where they infected a colony in one of their hives with a foul brood disease (under scientific and biohazard containment conditions, of course) and then experimented with cleaning it, taking samples to confirm their suggested method works.

 

Or is your personal idea of testing based upon thoroughly thought through principles less stringent than those tests most scientific beekeeping research is based upon.

 

I only ask as you seem to be putting forward a strong impression of Omlet having done some rigorous R&D to support their product.

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When I say prevention, I mean fully looking after and monitoring your bees properly. Taking time to look at them and see how they are behaving and if there are any signs of disease. Providing plenty of plants and flowers for them closeby, to stop them having to go too far afield.

 

You keep mentioning the situation in the USA, but we are not there and so the situation is different and the rates are lower over here.

 

No, I am not suggesting that they have done a huge Biohazard test, but I am suggesting that they will have thought through the risks and how the beehaus could be cleaned without scratching the surface in order to decrease the risk of having spores remain. They will also have cleaned the Beehaus several times and so know that the wax and propolis can be removed.

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When I say prevention, I mean fully looking after and monitoring your bees properly. Taking time to look at them and see how they are behaving and if there are any signs of disease. Providing plenty of plants and flowers for them closeby, to stop them having to go too far afield.

 

You keep mentioning the situation in the USA, but we are not there and so the situation is different and the rates are lower over here.

 

No, I am not suggesting that they have done a huge Biohazard test, but I am suggesting that they will have thought through the risks and how the beehaus could be cleaned without scratching the surface in order to decrease the risk of having spores remain. They will also have cleaned the Beehaus several times and so know that the wax and propolis can be removed.

 

 

So you appreciate you cannot prevent foul brood, good. So can we please drop the prevention is better than cure red herring now.

 

I only mentioned the USA because it runs on a "treat rather than burn" control method, which is relevant in this discussion.

 

So this well thought out methodology will be covered in the booklet that comes with a Beehaus then? Or are these sterilizing instructions somewhere online? or is it possible Omlets risk assessment and planning provisions are less thorough than you are implying?

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When I say prevention, I mean fully looking after and monitoring your bees properly. Taking time to look at them and see how they are behaving and if there are any signs of disease. Providing plenty of plants and flowers for them closeby, to stop them having to go too far afield.

 

Bees forage up to three miles, the only way to gauge what they on foraging on is to do pollen analysis, read their waggle dances, or catch bees in the field and identify them as yours... all rarely done by beekeepers.

 

Plant some bee friendly plants by all means, but unless tens of thousands of people do the same don't expect what you plant in your garden to benefit your bees. Allot of the publicity around this is great for a general feel-good factor, and bumped seed sales, but bees work on vast scales not back garden scales, they need a row of trees or a field of crops to generate enough pollen or nectar to make a real difference. That's not to say you can't keep bees in urban environment, you can and with great results, but its economies of scale that matter. I realize that sounds a little harsh but the idea putting bee plants in your garden is going to make a big difference to the colony in your garden is just wrong, unless you are planting trees or hedges that in years to come will be useful.

 

 

 

 

No, I am not suggesting that they have done a huge Biohazard test, but I am suggesting that they will have thought through the risks and how the beehaus could be cleaned without scratching the surface in order to decrease the risk of having spores remain. They will also have cleaned the Beehaus several times and so know that the wax and propolis can be removed.

 

So when was their first prototype made, because it takes a couple of seasons to get a hive well encrusted in wax and propolis, whereas I doubt they have had a production model in the field that long (although again I'm happy to be corrected)

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So when was their first prototype made, because it takes a couple of seasons to get a hive well encrusted in wax and propolis, whereas I doubt they have had a production model in the field that long (although again I'm happy to be corrected)

 

I don't know the definitive answer to this but I do know that it was me who asked James to "make something for bees" - nearly 5 years ago now!, when we were in our (then) garden looking at the second Eglu he had delivered. He started keeping bees shortly after that so I would imagine that these are all things that James will have come across over those few years.

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.......

 

 

Anyone whos already got bees on here thinking about one? (after they've seen what its like of course)

 

Had we been able to pick one up last week, we would have bought one, since we needed another hive in a hurry. Unfortunately there's a waiting list of at least three weeks.

 

We're thinking of moving to deeper brood frames anyway, and the Beehaus would fit this strategy. So we may well try one next season alongside our Nationals.

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So we may well try one next season alongside our Nationals.

 

That's so exciting - I'm so looking forward to hearing what people who've actually seen them think!

 

Since I don't plan on getting bees for at least 18 months (lots of planting of bee-friendly plants to do, Peter :wink:), it'll be interesting to hear people's verdicts for when I (oops - 'we' :oops:) come to decide which hive to go with.

 

Consider yourselves my personal guineapigs (brown guinea)(white guinea)(brown guinea)(white guinea)(brown guinea):wink:

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