Poorly chicken

[ubereglu]

So we may well try one next season alongside our Nationals.

 

That's so exciting - I'm so looking forward to hearing what people who've actually seen them think!

 

Since I don't plan on getting bees for at least 18 months (lots of planting of bee-friendly plants to do, Peter ), it'll be interesting to hear people's verdicts for when I (oops - 'we' ) come to decide which hive to go with.

 

Consider yourselves my personal guineapigs

 

I shall watch with interest and would love to hear how everyone gets on. I think it looks like a great product!

[Guest]

I wonder what Martin thinks of this - I know he rarely posts these days - is he busy with A levels? I do remember he was renting an orchard and was going to be beekeeping there - anyone know how he's getting on with all that?

[Lesley]

I haven't heard from him, or seen him, for ages now, he's busy with building his Empire , college and has a girlfriend but he did still have his bees. I'm surprised he hasn't popped in to discuss the Beehaus!

[ubereglu]

Me too...he hasn't been on his blog for a while either. I might send him a message on there giving him the heads up, I'm sure he'd be very interested!

[Guest]

Bees forage up to 3 miles

 

The only thing I've seen on this recent thread which might befuddle the starter bees. Probably a simple mistake on the part of the poster, but possibly some new starters will take it as correct, so here is the correct explanation (for the new starters).

 

No they don't. Half the distance is nearer the truth. The age old rule was 'if you need to move a hive move it less than 3 feet or more than 3 miles'

 

Distances are approximate and probably conservatively apportioned.

 

Less than 3 feet because the bees may never find their home again if it is moved appreciably more than that. Why? Because they will leave on 'auto-pilot' and return on 'auto-pilot' to where they thought the hive was. They need to re-install their starting location before departing the hive location and don't do this every time they exit the hive -well they never needed to do until humans interfered! (OK after a long siesta in the winter they do it first time out)

 

More than 3 miles: Bees can forage up to about half that distance (and likely very much less). The problem arises that if one were to move them too liitle a distance, and they were then to forage on 'the same patch as before the hive-move', they may 'auto-pilot' back to the previous hive location, thus, being totally lost to the colony.

 

Back to foul brood

 

There is another method of sterilising hives, which has not been considered. Gamma radiation is used on a regular basis in the US and would likely be used by the very large bee farmers. Not cheap in the UK (probably very expensive for a cheap-to-produce hive but a possibility worthwhile for a lot of plastic parts to be irradiated (by the pallet load?) if deemed necessary. High cost product - high cost remedy. Just a matter of economics. If you are prepared to pay that much for a plastic hive you should be prepared to pay the rate to have it cleaned properly. Bit like cars really - own a new, say, BMW you pay BMW rates for service and parts. Very old Sk--a with a blown engine - s"Ooops, word censored!" it.

 

This is simply a possible alternative to burning. I have yet to find out enough about the new hive to be able to say what sterilising regime may be necessary. All I say is that whatever method is used, it needs to be very effective. AFB is a nasty bee disease and even propolis and wax removal needs to be done extremely carefully, so as not to leave any residues around for future contamination.

 

One area which apparently has, in the past,had more AFB outbreaks than most is, I have heard claimed, near to a honey importer and processer. The local incidences are apparently feared to be from AFB spore-contaminated honey left in/on stored containers, where some bees might be finding some easy pickings, but inadvertently signing their death warrant, so to speak. I will add that the reasons for the cases of AFB are unsubstantiated, so are without definitive proof, as to what might be the cause, but some local to the area have their strong suspicions.

 

Searching out the areas of high numbers of AFB occurences might be a prudent thing to do if, sterilisation is a difficult option.

 

Further warning - never feed honey of unknown providence to bees.

 

Regards, RAB

[pdcambs]

Bees forage up to 3 miles

 

More than 3 miles: Bees can forage up to about half that distance (and likely very much less). The problem arises that if one were to move them too liitle a distance, and they were then to forage on 'the same patch as before the hive-move', they may 'auto-pilot' back to the previous hive location, thus, being totally lost to the colony.

 

 

 

 

Hi Rab

 

I've a friend near Cambridge who got a crop of Borage honey (quite distinctive) a couple of years ago. Funny thing is, the only Borage grown that year was a fraction over four miles away!

 

So I'd have to ask, is it your opinion bees never forage anywhere near three miles (distance in one direction) or can you offer a reference?

 

I had said they forage up to three miles, as this is generally accepted to be the case. Of course most foraging flights will be less, but under particular circumstances they can, and do, travel farther. At least that is my experience!

[pdcambs]

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1541

 

 

So... up to 7 miles, but more usually less than 3. In fact you could say they prefer to fly as little as possible, although they will travel quite a distance if they identify something worth the journey.

[Guest]

Only going by the age old adopted-by-all(?) 3 feet or 3 mile rule. Never heard or read anything different.

 

RAB

[Paul Peacock]

Simple answer

 

All the Bee Inspectors will allow you to disinfect the hive with glacial acetic acid.

[beesontoast]

That's going to be fun, as glacial acetic acid freezes at room temperature!

 

And AFAIK it is not a recognized remedy for AFB.

[Guest]

beesontoast,

 

Ethanoic acid is solid at a smidge under 17 Celsius, so unless you live in a fairly cool house, it should be melted!

 

Normally ethanoic is used at 80% for disinfecting frames etc, but like you I have not heard of it being acccepted as glacial (pure) for sterilisation. Conc. sulphuric would do the job, I am sure. It is sufficiently hygroscopic to remove water molecules from lots of organic materials (not to be used on wood because you would be left with charcoal!).

 

Regards, RAB

[beesontoast]

I can really see beehaus owners dipping their hives into baths of concentrated sulphuric acid...

[ubereglu]

I can really see beehaus owners dipping their hives into baths of concentrated sulphuric acid...

 

That wouldn't be a good idea for anything-let alone a beehaus. It would be a pig to store to start with as the acid would eat through the jars it was stored in.

[Guest]

It would be a pig to store to start with as the acid would eat through the jars it was stored in.

 

Stored in glass bottles when I was at school. Still done these days, I daresay. No real problem working with it if you know what you are doing.

 

But I would not consider letting Joe Public get their hands anywhere near conc. sulphuric acid - too hazardous, so it is a little academic. Lead-lined tanks is probably the commecial method.

 

Regards, RAB

[ubereglu]

It would be a pig to store to start with as the acid would eat through the jars it was stored in.

 

Stored in glass bottles when I was at school. Still done these days, I daresay. No real problem working with it if you know what you are doing.

 

But I would not consider letting Joe Public get their hands anywhere near conc. sulphuric acid - too hazardous, so it is a little academic. Lead-lined tanks is probably the commecial method.

 

Regards, RAB

 

It still degrades the bottles and it only contained for short periods of time.

[Guest]

It still degrades the bottles and it only contained for short periods of time.

 

Please expand, explain how, give a time frame, glass type, etc. please. I am not aware of any detrimental reactions. Normally it would be supplied in break-safe bottles anyway, these days. We used to use chromic /sulhuric acid to clean volumetric glassware back in school-days. Have used oxidising hydrochloric solutions (aqua regia) in glass vessels. So am interested to know the above. Just a reference to some detailed information would suffice. TIA

 

Extract from somewhere off the net:however some carbon steel tanks are lined with a high-temperature baked phenolic coating or are lead or brick lined to maintain acid purity.

 

Those details are for longer term storage. Plain carbon steel is the normal choice.

 

Regards, RAB

[pdcambs]

I have never heard of any hobby beekeeper in this country using either sulfuric acid or radiation to disinfect hives.

 

Commercial radiation is NOT widely used to control foul broods. To my knowledge it is used by some large commercial beekeepers in the USA as a belts and braces attempt to combat CCD; the cause of which is not fully understood.

[beesontoast]

I can't believe that anyone would seriously contemplate having vats of concentrated H2SO4 anywhere outside a lab or other controlled zone. Never mind the waste disposal hazard...

[AJuff]

In the chicken forum Bronze has posted her terrible photos of her cube infested with red mite in the tiny bubbles of the plastic. Surely this must be a consideration for how to treat for foulbrood in the Beehaus? Am I a sceptical worry wart?

[Lesley]

Difficult to say really.

 

I have red mite in one of the Eglus - one out of 12 - and I have put it down to my poor husbandry. We have had a really difficult few months and the cleaning routine went out of the window. I thought we'd sorted it with the power washer last week but a check yesterday showed it was still there. I still have Poultry Shield and a steam cleaner to use. I don't expect the mites to be around for long.

 

We have had red mite in an Eglu before - when we moved a hen from one of the wooden houses to the Eglu - it was easy to clear it from the Eglu then.....which was more than I've managed from the wooden housing.

 

I can only speak for myself though.

 

Omlet don't say you will never get red mite in Eglus or Cubes - but it is far easier to deal with the problem if it happens.

[pdcambs]

Odd, I'd got the impression during my limited time here that the Eglu was preferred by some people because it both didn't get mites and didn't need allot of maintenance. It's interesting to hear this might be something of an over simplification by pro Eglu owners!

 

So, what are these air bubbles that the mites can hide in, sounds like a typical refuge for wax moth eggs?

[The Dogmother]

I have experience of both types of housing and stil find the Omlet housing far easier and healthier (in my opinion) to maintain.

 

The manufacturing process is such that there are occasionally minute air bubbles on the surface of the moulding; this doesn't generally cause any problems as they are so miniscule. This is the first time that I have heard of red mites being lodged in these holes.

 

James is the best person to comment on the manufacturing process though.

[chickenanne]

Odd, I'd got the impression during my limited time here that the Eglu was preferred by some people because it both didn't get mites and didn't need allot of maintenance. It's interesting to hear this might be something of an over simplification by pro Eglu owners!

 

So, what are these air bubbles that the mites can hide in, sounds like a typical refuge for wax moth eggs?

 

I can see what you mean; I think the truth is that eglu/cube etc are less likely to get mites than wooden coops, and need less maintenance than (some) wooden coops. I'm a wooden coop person myself - some designs of wooden coop are totally rubbish, but mine (in my totally unbiased opinion!) is fab.

I guess there should be fewer air bubbles in a plastic beehive than in a wooden one, but if my little buzzers are anything to go by they make plenty of nooks and cranies all by themselves by "decorating" with propolys!

[Guest]

Slight diversion re cubes and mites!

 

I had a forsham wooden duck house and it rotted and got bugs etc etc the floor completely fell out of it and the fox broke into it(however it was well built and lasted 7 years)..looked more rustic but a pain to clean as it absorbed all the stinky stuff.

 

I now have a cube and I use diatom? powder in the nest and so far have not had any bugs at all and I suppose (tempting fate now) was expecting terrible mites etc that seem to go hand in hand with chickens and any animal.

 

I have only had these chickens since May 09 and my only concern so far is next year if I intro some newbies that I could potentially introduce mites so when I do they will be quarantined. I dont think there is a claim that the plastic type products stop mites at all but lessen the nooks & crannies for them to live in. Dont know what all this air bubble stuff is.

Anyhow my spaniel sleeps on a a stone floor and gets worms/ticks/fleas gathered from our land RE: Bee keeping that I know 0 about one thing even Defra mentions is good husbandry(one thing I may agree with Defra about for a change).

 

indie

[beesontoast]

Chicken mites are one thing - I imagine they leave the chicken for part of their lifecycle if they can be found in holes in woodwork (or am I confusing them with some other pest?) but bee mites (i.e. Varroa don't do so - they live most of their lives inside cells with bee larvae and the rest clinging to bees.

 

As for American Foul Brood (AFB) - this is an extremely tough bacterium that can withstand blowtorching and most chemical treatments. I think more is made of it here than strictly necessary - it is not often found in healthy colonies - but when it is found, all the bee inspectors are instructed to destroy hives by burning - and they can enforce that by law in the same way that DEFRA burned cows 8 years ago.

 

Now losing a wooden hive is bad enough - mine only cost me about £25 each to build - but I would hate to see £500 go up in (toxic) smoke. So this is something that should not be dismissed lightly, but neither should it keep anyone awake.