Margalot Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I am in a dilemma, I have 2 asthmatic children, but their asthmas is well under control, they take seratide every day and thankfully have never been admitted to hospital with an asthma attack I had a letter from my doctor on Friday saying that they had been requested to attend the swine flu vaccination programme and should come to the surgery on Saturday am to be vaccinated, but both of my 2 have an egg allergy, one is severe. So I called the surgery to see if they could have the celvapan vaccination rather than pandemrix which is cultured on hens eggs and spoke to a doctor who told me "no they cannot be vaccinated because the surgery has only been sent pandemrix". I asked when they would be getting in the celvapan and was told they dont know they just use what they are given and to ring the Health Protection Agency. I havent done this as today was the first available chance to contact them, but I have read some things over the weekend and am now worreid about the whole vaccination thing completely. My husbands view is that the children are healthy and we will deal with swine flu if and when it happens. I really dont know that if I make that decision to have them both vaccinated and they have side effects it will be my fault. Afetr reading the mail on Sunday about pharmacutical companies being able to escape any form of comeback if there are complications, because the W.H.O. has insisted on the vaccination programme, I am in a quandry. Why is the whole thing being so dramatically portrayed? for most people it is a mild illness, I dont know what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 we dont seem to have a choice at the moment which vaccine is delivered to the surgery, everyone here is given panderix too, good question what do we do about getting the egg free one? a call to the pharmaceutical advisor at your PCT may be in order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsquid Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 We have been offered both, but the version for those with egg allergies is not being given to GP surgeries. If you contact the surgery they should be able to arrange for you to attend a special vaccination clinic for those with egg allergies. In our area these are being run by the Health Protection Agency and are in special clinics not at the GP surgery. Please, please have your children vaccinated. Swine flu is not a mild illness, and carries a significant risk of death, which is higher for children. The process of rapid vaccine development is undertaken every year for seasonal flu vaccines and the process for swine flu has been similar. Think of this: The media put out scare stories that mean many people hesitate about having vaccines against a range of illnesses. Some of those people, or their children, will die or suffer serious illnesses. But there is no comeback against the media at all for putting out inaccurate and misleading stories. Thousands of children have suffered as a result of the MMR scare which has been proved to have no basis and to be the result of a corrupt researcher with a financial interest in an alternative product. No vaccine is without risk, but the risk of having it is much less than the risk of not having it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 well said docsquid we had an outbreak of measles here recently luckily all the children recovered but its just not worth the risk, I still hear parents agonising over wether or not to vaccinate their children & I dont blame them for being cautious - the press do a superb job at confusing everyone, I know they have to report on things, but rarely give a balanced view. Perhaps they should report what we have all seen, many years ago I watched helplessly whilst 15 babies and young children died one weekend from whooping cough because they had not been vaccinated. It has been a long time since such things were common but these bugs have not gone away. Whilst I agree that the fears/panic about swine flu have gotten out of hand, it remains a significant risk to youngsters & the vaccine is as safe as any other, I had mine last week & lived to tell the tale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadietoo Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 This really is a difficult one...I was one of those who agonised over the MMR vaccine, but not because of the media, but because some of Europe and the USA were not using it. The trouble is we just don't know what the long term effects of these drugs are going to be. In the end my children had the jab, but I wasn't at all comfortable about it. I had measles as a child, as did all my friends..we all survived unscathed because we were otherwise healthy..a different story for children in the developing world of course. I never caught mumps although I was exposed to it several times (made to play with a friend who had it if I remember correctly) so I think I must have been naturally immune... I really couldn't see what was wrong with my children taking their chances..sorry if that sounds hard. What bothers me now is should we really be giving anti-virals on such a grand scale...whatever happened to developing a natural immunity?? (of course I am not including in this those with other underlying health problems who obviously need extra protection) I would also be much more comfortable about the whole thing if doctors did not get paid for immunisation programmes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsquid Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I had measles as a child, as did all my friends..we all survived unscathed because we were otherwise healthy.. Most people who are fully healthy do recover fully from measles, but some don't - some die and others suffer serious brain damage which leaves them dependent for the rest of their lives. These are children who were fully fit and healthy beforehand and being fit and healthy is no guarantee of full recovery. It really isn't worth the risk when there is a safe and effective vaccine available. I have also watched a previously completely fit and healthy young woman with young children die of mumps. Mumps is not trivial and can lead to serious complications - this woman died of pancreatitis which is a well-known serious complication of mumps. These are not trivial infections and it is not only the sick or weak who develop complications or die. We all know the devastating effects of rubella on developing babies, thankfully now rare due to the immunisation programme. We are extremely lucky in this country that we are offered these immunisations that allow us to develop a natural immunity to infection for free. The benefits of using antivirals in healthy individuals has been questioned from the start with many doctors urging caution. Sadly resistant strains of virus are now being reported. I would also be much more comfortable about the whole thing if doctors did not get paid for immunisation programmes. So who should be paid to do them? Somebody has to pay staff for the extra hours they work in delivering these immunisations, and if they were not delivered through GP surgeries then other staff in special clinics or hospitals would have to be paid to deliver them instead (as was the case 50 years ago). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadietoo Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I do understand the risks attendant on measles and other childhood illnesses and generally I think the immunisation programme is a good thing, (I did let my children have it) It is a shame it is not available in the developing world where they really could do with it. I was trying (clumsily) to illustrate the different attitude that exists now where people seem to be under the impression that there is a drug or inoculation available for everything, without actually letting nature do its work. As far as payment for immunisation programmes go I was referring to the incentive payments which are given to GP's on the basis of needles in arms for routine inoculations not special programmes.. My surgery have certainly never employed additional staff to deal with these..the practice nurses usually deal with them, and I've never been able to go outside normal surgery hours. Surely in this day and age this is normal work for GP's not extra so why the additional money? This is what I find worrying, because there is pressure to have the jabs, even if you don't think you want them . At the end of the day, it is up to everyone to make an informed choice. It's getting the right information which is difficult and this is where the media are mischievous to say the least, so in the end everyone is confused. A lot of GP's were saying that they would not necessarily have the vaccine for Swine Flu and as you rightly say questioning the widespread use of antivirals. I'm glad my children are not in the target group for the vaccine..but I don't think in this instance I would agonise for long..I wouldn't let them have it, I'm too concerned we could be setting ourselves up for a fall at a later date. Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMitch Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I was nervous about having it as I work for a pharmaceutical company but weighed that up against getting swine flu with having asthma and the vacination won. I had mine three weeks ago and apart from a sore arm for a few days, I have been fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsquid Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 The practice nurses are paid from the practice income, a significant chunk of which comes from meeting targets and in particular immunisation targets. Without this income, there wouldn't be the money to employ the nurses and therefore staff and services would be lost. GP's are not NHS employees - they are self-employed and the staff are paid not by the NHS but by the practice income. It is a complicated system and it can look as if GP's are pushing things to get money. In reality without these target payments many practices would go out of business completely and others wouldn't be able to offer anything like the services that they do at the moment. In reality a practice failing to meet its immunisation target would probably be put up for tender to the private sector in the current climate! A lot of doctors wouldn't agree, but I think it would be perceived much better by the public if GP's and their staff were directly employed by the NHS on contracts from the PCT. However this wouldn't mean that there would be no incentive to give vaccinations. All doctors have to meet performance targets, in hospital, universities or primary care, and vaccination targets would be one of them (as are waiting lists) and these would be linked to pay, as are most NHS targets. It is not just doctors who get money for ensuring people get vaccines - managers in the PCT and public health also get performance-related pay, and they may be less willing to listen to individual patients' concerns than clinical staff. All my GP friends and colleagues have had the swine flu jab as have their families if they fall into priority groups. The only ones I know who haven't had it haven't been offered it yet, or are in line for the special vaccine for those with egg allergies. I think it is difficult to make choices in a system where on one hand it looks like doctors are being pushed to give jabs people don't want, and on the other hand the media are peddling scare stories to sell papers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickvic Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I am also asthmatic and had the swine flu jab a few weeks ago. I had a sore arm too but that was all. Do your children have the normal flu jab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsquid Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I am also asthmatic and had the swine flu jab a few weeks ago. I had a sore arm too but that was all. Do your children have the normal flu jab? I don't have any kids, but if I did they would definitely get it! I'm trying to get my husband the swine flu jab as he is my carer and would have no qualms about him having it. I've recommended all the family to have it if they are summoned. I would do so for anybody I care a lot about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurmurf Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I was called to the surgery for the vaccination because I'm on methotrexate. I was offered the vaccination for the children and OH at the same time so that they didn't compromise my health. I was delighted to accept for my sake and theirs! I am relieved that I don't have to worry about them getting a potentially dangerous illness and am - once again - so proud to live in a country that supports our national health care by the way, not a sore arm in sight: it was the flimsiest needle I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickvic Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I am also asthmatic and had the swine flu jab a few weeks ago. I had a sore arm too but that was all. Do your children have the normal flu jab? I don't have any kids, but if I did they would definitely get it! I'm trying to get my husband the swine flu jab as he is my carer and would have no qualms about him having it. I've recommended all the family to have it if they are summoned. I would do so for anybody I care a lot about. I meant Margalot I didn't hesitate to have mine, my point was if they have the 'normal' flu jab then why not the swine flu jab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alis girls Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 After uming and aahring re whether to have it done as front line NHS - I will do. Both kids get asthma with colds and flu and OH had pneumonia bad. I am also asthmatic. If the kids are offered it I may get them to have it - they had flu vacc for the first time this year. Not impressed they werent either. I wish they had a vacc against earache as YS has it and is on antib's. hope you amnage to make the right decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smanners Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Well I'm a health worker and got mine today......... in fact I ended up having the seasonal one too, so now have 2 sore arms I feel absolutely fine and really didn't want to get flu over Xmas/New Year. Don't want to think too much about side effects tbh and I'm trusting that it is as safe as they say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margalot Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Thank you all so much for your advice its made me think again. No my children have never been offered the seasonal flu vaccine as also this is sometimes cultured on hens eggs? I have to take my daughter to the doctors this afternoon with a sore thoat and shes been run down and her glands are really swollen so I will have a chance to see a doctor face to face! I was quite suprised that my doctor couldn't offer me any more info on the other vaccine, he seemed really stressed when I spoke to him over the phone, I know this must be awfully busy for them, but my original intention was to have the jab for the kids and if they dint have the allergy , I would have gone along to the clinic on Saturday and had it. Stupid Sunday papers!! We also have a care plan from the PCT /school nurse so may turn to her for where we can get the celvapan vaccine. My children have had all the regular childhood vaccines, thankfully my sons MMR was just before all the press came out about that one and before we knew about his allergies, otherwise I really dont know what I would have done! I hate the news and papers, you feel compelled to watch/read and are left feeling so confused about whats best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 [. I would also be much more comfortable about the whole thing if doctors did not get paid for immunisation programmes. So who should be paid to do them? Somebody has to pay staff for the extra hours they work in delivering these immunisations, and if they were not delivered through GP surgeries then other staff in special clinics or hospitals would have to be paid to deliver them instead (as was the case 50 years ago). Docsquid Good point, having been involved in giving swine flu vac, in my free time to work extra hours to deliver the vaccines I expect to be paid for it! so would anyone else, the GP employing me gets the extra money to cover the cost of opening/extending surgery & paying the staff. it would be interesting to hear what others think, how else could we deliver a mass vaccination service? maybe public health should be doing this, but guess where they would get the nurses from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleTree Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I know a few people who have had it, and have only come away with a sore arm. My friend had her little one vaccinated the other week, he was born 4 months premature and so had lung and heart problems, she didn't think it was worth the risk. I don't know if my 2 will get appointments at some point as they're 5 and 2. I will have to think about it when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 OH has had his 2nd swine flu jab today (original, plus booster) as he has a lowered immune system due to a pituitary tumour removed twice. He went in today and came back telling me that they have 2 spare vaccines, as there were no shows at the surgery. I was advised to have one due to possibly infecting him and working in aluminium pressurised tubes with the 'germy' general public. Nurse told me to hold the area where the needle went in, for as long as possible. It should prevent it aching. Will report back tomorrow. Interestingly, she asked if I was allergic to eggs, as it is made with albumen. I asked if they were free range organic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsquid Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Interestingly, she asked if I was allergic to eggs, as it is made with albumen. I asked if they were free range organic I bet that went down well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lydia Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I hear about all these people getting the jab but I haven't been contacted at all. I've called my surgery twice but they say they haven't had it in yet - is that right? I know some surgeries in Reading have got it. I have a rare primary immunodeficiency but because my condition is managed by an immunology team in Oxford not Reading, I tend to fall between the gaps at my GP surgery for a lot of things. This is further exacerbated by the fact I don't have a named GP so see someone different every time I go. Think I'll call them again tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsquid Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Lydia, our surgery is only starting their programme next week. I had to do a lot of nagging to ensure that I was on the list for being summoned. I now have an appointment for next Wednesday but it was a struggle! I think the answer is to nag. Also try contacting the Patient Advisory Liaison Service (PALS) at the PCT as they can take up any issues on your behalf. I couldn't get any answer out of the surgery but the PALS team got everything I needed to know within an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alis girls Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sorry if this upsets anyone but had mine today (front line NHS staff and asthmatic) Ok so far still have 2 arms and took 2 Nurofen just in case as i heard some people had very sore arms. hope Docsquid and Lydia get yours soon - our own surgery where we are pts still hasnt got yet but is in same PCt as the one I work in. They are unbeliavably slow - 1 month to Christmas and pts wont want just before Christmas in case of side effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Nurse told me to hold the area where the needle went in, for as long as possible. It should prevent it aching. Will report back tomorrow. : *lifts arm up to laptop* She lied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alis girls Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 New one on me Christian and I give the things. Slept ok - now have pain up lt side of neck and when touched arm it HURT!! However I am a nurse and a major wuss. Nurses do lie, we have to otherwise no one would have injections, check ups, smears etc - only little lies - honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
