ChrisEllis Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I have just bought some new Gold Laced Poland hatching eggs. They are smooth, i thought they were frizzle aswell but they aren't, i was wondering, what do you do, to get the frizzle gene in them? Is a frizzle poland LITERALLY and frizzle crossed with a poland and then you get your poland? I currently have a frizzle chamois with two chaois smooths, and im not sure how the genetics work but the smooth still carry the frizzle im guessing? What would i get if i bred Gold laced with a chamois?....for example Gold laced (All smooth) Poland Cockrel with a... Chamois Smooth but (carrying frizzle gene)? Would my possibilities be firstly either Gold or chamois and secondly frizzle or smooth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 It would seem that you will get poor gold lacing on a white/cream background colour You would probably get about 50% frizzled offspring but half of those may be boys Not sure how the frizzle feathering got in to the Poland breed in the first place but a frizzled Poland will be the offspring of two Polands A 'proper' Frizzle crossed with a Poland will give you a cross breed not a Poland One thing you must never do is breed frizzle feathered to frizzle feathered, you get offspring whose feathers are over frizzled and they break easily, the youngsters affected by this often have to be culled. If you are serious about this you should join the Poland Club and get speaking to some breeders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisEllis Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 I might join a club know any good ones? And yes i have heard about the frizzle to frizzle. And so in reality i should maybe buy a frizzle gold laced hen that is the same age as the gold laed in summer time and that way i will get some gold laced frizzles strongl cloured...or maybe even a frizzle cockerel depending on how many cockerels hatch. that way i have 50% that eVERY chick will be frizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom123 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Tasha is right, Gold x Chamois produces fuzzy gold lacing on a 'dirty' cream base colour. Not worth the hassle, they wont sell and you cant breed from them! Frizzle x Poland would just produce a crested, frizzled cross breed. Again worth nothing! Frizzle Polands were created by crossing frizzled Japanese with Poland bantams, and it took well over a decade of careful selection to achieve Passable frizzle Polands. It isn't as easy as just crossing a frizzle with a certain breed to create the frizzled version of that breed! If you cross a Frizzle cockerel to a plain hen then the 50% of the resulting offspring will be Frizzle and the other half will be plain. Frizzle x Frizzle will produce some perfect frizzled birds, over frizzled birds and may throw up some plain feathered birds. Found this on the Polish Breeders Club... breed smooth ( a bird that is out of frizzling parentagenot a straight which has no frizzle genetics.) to a frizzle (full blown feathering that is frizzle) will give at least 1/2 frizzle and 1/2 smooths and NO curlies ie extreme frizzle. Now when one has bred frizzle to smooth for several yrs at least 5 YES you can breed smooth to smooth and get some frizzles. Small percentage. The smooths have a modifier gene for frizzling it may be recessive but it is there. now when breeding a straight feather bird ie: no frizzle gene to a Frizzle( full blown frizzle feathers) you will get a percentage of frizzles and the smooth only have 1/2 frizzle gene in F-1 so then you can breed the frizzle back to a frizzle for about three yrs and in the 4th gneration stop breeding frizzle to frizzle. The genes are set and dominant, in the f-2 & f-3 generation all smooths are getting towards full frizzle genes modifiers. you see they only pick up 1/4 frizzle genetics each generation. do not breed back to a straight as it demerits the frizzle gene and adds more straight feathered genes in the pool. As for male and female it does not determine the sex just the amount of frizzling. to those that have not bred frizzles and kept records as I have well I guess you all just got to take my word for it. The original question was: If I breed a smooth frizzle to a frizzle will I get a curly or a regular frizzle? I'm wondering since the smooth frizzle already carries the frizzle gene. Answer No you will not get any curly's ie extreme frizzles. You will only get frizzle FF & smooth ff. Very interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&T Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Wash them on a hot wash????? (sorry....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom123 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisEllis Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 hehe a hot wash If only was that simple. I really dont get all of it...to be honest...if i sell hatching eggs i will say i have a frizzle cockerel and 2 smooth hens and then let the buyer deal with knowing what their chances are and if i breed them myself then what happens will happen. Its all so confusing...and as for my gold laced polands i will get a frizzle cockerel gold laced and then breed him with them and get what i get !! Thanks for everyones help...i sort of understand it a bit more!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I think you need to do a lot more research and take advice from the Poland Club before you embark upon breeding the more complex hens. **Poland Club** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisEllis Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 ooo thank you, looks like a good site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I think you need to do a lot more research and take advice from the Poland Club before you embark upon breeding the more complex hens. **Poland Club** I agree Chris, if you don't really understand, maybe join the club and do your own reading first so you understand all the basics and then any specific questions, you can ask the club. Did you get the breeding book (can't remember which one) you were looking at last time? You can't really afford to experiment with them and not be able to home the chicks -best to read and get it right the first time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisEllis Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Yer had a little look at their site, its not as if i dont know how to look after them or breed them...its just the genetics that baffle me, might see what books are up for grabs to read, sent a few emails off to some people i found on a poland website asing a few questions. Many Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I just bought a good book, its this one, nice and easy to undestand if you dont get genetics like me! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Century-Poultry-Breeding-Grant-Brereton/dp/0947870571/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266749273&sr=8-1 However if you try to learn how to use the genetics calculator that I posted about before that is free and will tell you what you will get from various crossings, once you have the hang of it its easy to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisEllis Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Just about to buy it, looks very good...Thanks Tasha And i'll have another look at that genetics calculator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom123 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Yer had a little look at their site, its not as if i dont know how to look after them or breed them...its just the genetics that baffle me I think what Lewis is saying is that, by breeding, you will be taking animal's lives into your own hands and you have a responsibility to care for them and give them the best life possible. I think that we can all agree that in the past that some of the things you have done with your chicks aren't really the best thing for them in my opinion which is why I also suggest that you buy a few good books and look into it a lot before you do anything. Polands are high maintenance and require a lot of attention. I know some people don't give them this and say they are fine but in my opinion it isn't worth the risk. They need a sheltered run, narrow lipped drinkers, to be kept warm in the winter(stable, shed etc.) and you mustn't let there crest get wet. If you cannot provide this for them then I suggest you find an easier breed to keep. As I said before, if keeping any animal, you must provide the correct conditions for them to give them the best life possible and if this can't be done, don't keep them. Remember, your Polands are related so you will have to get rid of you current boy or get new hens for him and separate the two flocks if you keep any girls you hatch from your current trio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook n Boo Mum Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Well put Tom Sha x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisEllis Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Well, its fair enough you have that opinion, but I wouldn't say I have done wrong by any of my chickens, you saying I don;t do best by my chickens is a bit harsh, when someone writes a post saying how one of their chicks or chickens have died...no one ever says they didn't do well enough by their chickens, if mine weren't happy then i would know about it, and none of my chickens have ever died or had any problems and i know of many owners not giving them a fully sheltered run. They are much happier being able to run where they like than be cooped up in a small little run with nothing interesting at all. And just to say my Polands aren;t related they come from a breeder who has over 100 Polands in many different pens and therefore she has told me that breeding these that i have is absolutely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I don't think anyone is looking to start another argument/or whatever, just trying to help Yer had a little look at their site, its not as if i dont know how to look after them or breed them...its just the genetics that baffle me IMO I don't know if you do know how to breed them ... choosing who to mate with who is a big part of that that, and as you said, you don't fully understand it yet. I know you put them out early before which people advised against which (I think) is what Tom was getting at ... mine are happy in a covered run - safer from predators too Will you be able to keep the chicks inside for longer this time, and will you have to make another smaller run for the chicks to go before they're sold, whats the plan with the cockerels? Emailing those people is a good thing, if you still aren't sure, can you ask the breeder you bought them from and see what she says - if something isn't right she may be able to get you another couple of hens to put with your cockerel? It sounds like you're doing the right thing now, just still don't try and rush into breeding Btw, the new av is ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisEllis Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Well, i asked this question about breeding and the topic of how i looked after my chickens was brought back into it...again which i thought was a bit unfair, and i dont want it to seem im putting on a front and just sitting behind a computer screen saying what I like, but, i am probably about 3-4 months off breeding them yet, and to be honest this forum is to ask about things and find out...i know i can get SO much more knowledge asking people questions than reading a book, therefore, i asked, and was told i should read before i go into it...but im not going straight into it. It doesn;t hurt being inquisitive. But there we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom123 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 but I wouldn't say I have done wrong by any of my chickens, you saying I don;t do best by my chickens is a bit harsh The only reason I said this is because some of things you have done (e.g. putting them out to young in my opinion) have been against what we have all said. You ask for advice and then say that you will do something different in the end if mine weren't happy then i would know about it, and none of my chickens have ever died or had any problems and i know of many owners not giving them a fully sheltered run. They are much happier being able to run where they like than be cooped up in a small little run with nothing interesting at all Did I say that you should keep them in a small run with nothing interesting?? They need to be kept in a covered run for their health, this doesn't mean the run can't be fun does it? A couple of perches and a cabbage will keep them entertained. I have experienced death and other health problems as most people know but I do the best for my hens and provide them with a happy, healthy life even if it is short. And just to say my Polands aren;t related they come from a breeder who has over 100 Polands in many different pens and therefore she has told me that breeding these that i have is absolutely fine. That doesn't make sense. If the 3 of them hatched from the same batch of eggs then they will be related as they will have the same dad which means if you were to keep any hens you hatch you couldn't really put them back to their Dad as you could have genetic problems with the chicks. I don't want an argument. I want the best for your chickens as I think every animal has the right to live a happy, healthy life and their owner must provide this. After all, you brought them into this world so they are your responsibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisEllis Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Yes, ok ur point aobut their run i take back...but i know for face they aren;t related i met up ith teh breeder and she keeps over a 100 chickens as i said i dont know whether she has a few pens with a cockerel per run and then a few girls. But they aren't related. I'll give you her email if you want. And also I ask for advice, but someone suggesting to me to keep them inside til' spring is nuts. that was like 7 months and i dont know anybody who just genereally look after chickens would do that. They are fine, they have grown up fine and to be honest however it goes nothing bad has happened to my chickens, so i can't have done wrong, if you then compare it to someone thats had a loss. Because sometihng must have been dnoe more wrong than i had. It seems that everyrime i ask a question - 'I hsould have read up on it' but i ask the qestions weeks and weeks or even months in this case in advance and people are acting as if im aobut to go forth and do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkor Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Chris, We understand that you are interested and enthusiastic about breeding your chooks and it is good that you are asking questions on the forum. However, I believe I am right in saying that all of the people that have responded to your questions have given their own honest opinion and are advising you what they would do in your situation. This forum is predominately used by people that started keeping chooks in their back garden so the questions of breeding has not been considered by them as it is not possible in a back garden set up. That said, I am sure we all dream of it! There are other forums with members who breed chooks for shows, sale and just for fun which you may find interesting too. Those members of this forum who are lucky enough to have experience and the knowledge to be able to offer you advice in the area of breeding, genetics and raising chooks from eggs have offered their advice to you and if it were me I would embrace it all! I have silkies, polish and diddy japanese that live in a covered run which is sheltered by fences and large hedges and I was deeply concerned about them during the cold and bitter weather. So much so that each night they were put in a large cat carrier and slept in the shed. Even then one of my Silkies developed a rattly chest and had to be nursed for a short time. The fact that your youngsters have made it through the cold weather has to be, I believe, down to luck It would be considered imprudent (cooee to Prudence ) to start any project/adventure/business without doing the required research and reading to allow you to have a full and broad understanding of what your are getting into. I hope that you recieve this post in the manner in which I intended and I wish you luck. Em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 And also I ask for advice, but someone suggesting to me to keep them inside til' spring is nuts. that was like 7 months and i dont know anybody who just genereally look after chickens would do that. Charming! That'll be me then I have my two Polands living in a run in my garage and they've been there all winter. Olive is 9 months old and Doris is almost 6 months old. There's no way on earth Doris would still be alive if she had been kept outside all winter, she's a very very small bantam and in general Polands are not a hardy breed. She feels the cold more than any other chicken I've known. She was hatched under a broody in September and with the good weather was able to spend a few weeks outside with her mum. Apart from a couple of hours a week or so ago on a very sunny afternoon she has not set foot outside since early November. She'll probably move to a covered run outside in late March. I intend to hatch some more Polands when the weather improves considerably and my entire Poland flock will spend next winter in my garage again. I love them so much I'll do whatever I can to make them comfortable, I'm certainly not nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisEllis Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Well i think each to their own, but to me and also my neighbour who i have mentioned quite a lot tohught that keeping them inside my house for another 7 months or so seemed a bit unbelievable, I like to get opinions. Keeping on track with what the post was about i just wanted to know what crosses of colour would make what, and how i would get a frizzle, i think i put myself across as not knowing much, but firstly i woldn;t inbreed them and i made sure of that with the breeder who gave me the eggs, otherwise i would have got a different cockerel, im quite lucky my neighbour will accept and has asked for any chickens we do not want. And also i won;t be breeding my silkies as i dont know if they are related. I still hae months before i breed my polands, therefore i think i have done my research quite early on. Once again sorry to anone for my ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Could we please keep this topic on track without any nastiness or personal attacks or it will be locked? Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Chris, perhaps the breeder who sold you the Poland eggs would be happy for you to spend a couple of days helping there? it would be great experience and half a morning with a really good breeder would give yo some fantastic info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
