patsylabrador Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 I'm interested in peoples' opinions about this. The farm will house 9000 cattle and sounds very efficient with maternity wings and so on but I don't think it sounds right. I believe the cows will be indoors the majority of the time and I forget the exact numbers but their milk production will increase substantially. Apparently they will live for 3 cycles instead of 5 cycles before 'producing beef' as the spokesman so quaintly put it. I would like to understand the term 'cycles', does that mean years or how many calves they have? I've lived in a city for many years now and know very little about farming practices today, except that they like to host festivals, but I do know two things about cows that I'm sure haven't changed. Firstly, they graze on grass almost constantly, that's why they're fitted with all those stomachs, and secondly, much like elephants they have a strong herd structure with matriarchs and a definite heirarchy. If these things are taken from them it's my opinion that their welfare wouldn't be the best. I never expected that in my little flock of chickens I would have three different characters, they follow all their chicken instincts and do basically the same but are different in their approach to things. I'm sure that must be the same for cows. The 'super dairy farm' sounds a lot like battery farming for cows - or am I being over sentimental? This is the same reason why I won't buy any pork, bacon or ham products from Denmark. The massive industrial pig farms they have there do not seem right to me either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Compassion in world farming are trying to stop this awful super dairy. http://www.ciwf.org.uk/news/beef_and_dairy_farming/nocton_dairy_summary_of_key_arguments.aspx We have just cancelled our milk delivery because they couldn't tell us exactly where our milk comes from. We have now made the switch to organic milk, butter and cheese. I know there is some debate about how long the organic cows get out to enjoy the grass but whatever they get is better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsylabrador Posted August 8, 2010 Author Share Posted August 8, 2010 Thank you for the link. That is very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 They have coffee mornings and fundraising events throughout the year. I had a coffee morning in June half term to raise funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 I'm not comfortable with the idea of super farms either. When we went to visit relatives in the US we started in Nebraska - big beef country - and we drove through Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Illinois.......we never saw any cattle out in any of the vast farms and fields we saw The land was used as arable land to produce food for the cattle which were housed in vast barns. It all felt so wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 It is wrong - terribly wrong. We are supposed to be going forwards with animal welfare not backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavenders_Blue Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 I haven't read the CIWF article so I don't know if your questions have already been answered. Apologies if I am telling you what you now already know. A cycle is a calving, so three cycles will be three calves and the period of milk production that follows. If 'normal' dairying practice is followed then the cow will be in calf again before her milk dries up. This is to ensure that she is productive 365 days of the year, basically. I can't imagine how on earth they are going to make the cows yield even more milk. Holstein cows already produce freakishly high amounts of milk which I don't really agree with. I personally I would like to be able to buy milk from herds other than Holstein, but it seems to be pretty much impossible, unless you are lucky enough to have a local farm dairying other breeds of cow. And yes, it is pretty much battery cow farming It's common practice to bring cattle inside over the winter, when grazing is scarcer and the ground is churned up more easily, but cows do need access to the outside and I don't think this will be in any way good for welfare. I have bought organic milk for some time now, and will continue to do so. Don't forget that whilst switching to organic milk is better for welfare of the cows, cheese, yoghurt, butter, cream etc are all milk products too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looney Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) I know the area well, I was born and bred only a few miles away from the proposed site of the farm and my family still live there. It feels wrong for many reasons, maintaining a high standard of animal welfare seems like such an insurmountable challenge when you have so many animals In addition there are all sorts of local worries about increased traffic, mainly lorries, believe me the roads are definitely rural so not really suited and of course I have the usual 'don't spoil my memories' type emotions going on as well! Edited August 10, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mostin Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 CIWF have been fighting this for a while now. I believe it is very wrong , it is the equivalent of battery farming cows. There should be some links you can follow on the CIWF site to email your MP to ask for their support against it, if you feel that way too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miffy Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 OMG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubereglu Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I'm not comfortable with the idea of super farms either. Me neither, cows need daylight and sunshine and be able to eat grass in my opinion, I always worry about the health of these animals too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Speckled Hen Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Yes, battery cows. Never go out to chew the cud nestled in fresh green grass, to lie down when it's going to rain or gaze at the moon on a starlit night. The older I get the more this breaks my heart. I stopped the other day to let a herd of cows cross the road to milking. Their udders were full to bursting but their frames were skeletal; bred for making milk not body tissue. Spring lamb is battery produced as well. I get my milk from a small local herd and living here in Cumbria I am more lucky than most in that I can control better what I eat. It's the price we pay for letting the supermarkets ply us with cheap food, but then who are we to say that people on a tight budget would be forbidden to eat what we ethically minded CAN afford. It's a matter of deep concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramble Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 This just sounds awful, doesn't it? This is probably a really dim question, but does buying organic milk guarantee that it has come from cows that live in fields (at least during the summer months)? I ask 'cos I know that "free range eggs" doesn't necessarily mean what we might necessarily consider to be "free range"? The more I read about all this stuff, the more tempted I am to go vegan ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Speckled Hen Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I know that if something is labelled organic as per "SOIL ASSOCIATION" it has to be ethically produced but I can't comment on any other organic labelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavenders_Blue Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Yes, the Soil Association has very strict guidelines about animal welfare. Best to check on their website exactly what it means for the animals. I could be wrong, but I think some of the other organic certifications are not necessarily so hot on the animal welfare (but am happy to be wrong on that!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mostin Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 some supermarkets stock "Rachels Milk" which is from an organic company that says the cows get access to fields and outdoors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadietoo Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I know I've posted on this before but 9000 cows calving three times a year with a 50% chance of producing a boy is at least 13500 (if my maths are right) male calves shot at birth... The Cows are bred for milk, so the calves are no good for meat...our current milk industry is already obscene without this new atrocity.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krysia Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 your shotong males comment is what had made me post, I agree animals should have good outdoor access and a decet standard of life! However I do eat meat,I enjoy it and buy what I consider to be ethical meat when ever possible (my SIL is Vegetarian and better than me when buying meat for her son) mt parents on the other hand are on a tighter budget and although I make the usual protest if they offer me dinner and its not organic / free range / HAPPY I will till eat it. Sorry! anyway I have a lot of friends who eat the cheapest of whatever regarless of where it has come from but wont eat veal! (Yet they eat lamb, and drink milk) as long as it is reared well (and by well I mean sympathetically to the animal not just to produce vast quantities!) Veal is fine! Its a by product of the dairy industry (even Organic!) and I see no reason why it isnt eaten more. shooting and incinerating is a waste lets give it a quality life and enjoy it. I know I have probably opened anpther can of worms and I know its a little off topic but it is all related, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadietoo Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I agree...I am vegetarian, my husband and daughter are pescatarian (sp) my son is carnivore. I would buy rose veal for him without a second thought....it's the waste I can't abide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavenders_Blue Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I'm also a vegetarian and would not hesitate to buy rose veal for my DH, who is not veggie. However it's not the rose veal that's the 'problem', it's the calves that get sent abroad for veal crates (yes we do still export calves). Also these animals are only suitable for meat if the dairy cow is mated with a beef bull. As the next generation of dairy cows still needs to be bred, this does not always happen, so there will still be a lot of male calves that are shot at birth because they are neither suitable for meat, not for producing milk! Actually, now I have written this down, I feel somewhat hypocritical drinking milk but still contributing to unnecessary animal waste... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I would love to be able to get hold of English Rose Veal, but I cannot buy it locally. At least if it's English I know the bull has had better welfare standards than imported veal. As for the super dairy it's wrong and shouldn't be allowed happen. Aren’t we getting rid of battery farming for hens so why start it with cows. Let them eat grass in the fields and feel the sun on their backs. Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krysia Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 we but rosey veal at a farmers market from a localish farm, we also get ostrich! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
