2009 Omlet cube and run for sale

[DebC]

I'm not a parent, but my SIL is. She's had some mental health issues for a number of years and her now 18 year son has lived with his Dad since he was four, but always had a lot of contact with his Mum. Her daughter is just 4 1/2 and lives with her. SIL and the Dad are still a couple but don't live together full time, but he sees his daughter most days and always makes sure SIL gets to go food shopping etc as she doesn't drive (due to medications). Our neice stays with us for a night every other weekend to give her mum a break. She is as good as gold for us. She has the odd tantrum and pushes boundaries, but nothing too bad.

 

However, her mum is beginning to struggle big time. She is refusing to sleep anywhere other than in her Mum's bed, and that is when she actually goes to bed. Most nights SIL has to go to bed just to get her to go to bed. She screams for what seems like hours on end. She won't eat except for junk food (which her Mum gives her, because it keeps her quiet!), when do reading and spelling she has a tantrum if her Mum tries to correct her. Anyway she is now in reception year at school. The school are becomming concerned as they have noticed that she can be unkind to other children.

 

I've tried to say to her that she needs to set boundaries and stick to them, but that's easy for me to say I only have her one night a fortnight. I have said to SIL that when she asks for snacks between meals I say no and mean it, we sit at the table and she eats a really good meal, she has a bath a mug of warm milk and goes to bed (when she sleeps soundly for a good 10 hours). She comes to ours in the afternoon and she and my OH play for a couple of hours and she gets some really good one to one time which she really enjoys. She always feeds the girls and sometimes we make a cake together. Then in the morning her Mum walks to us and we all have breakfast together. But is becomming really alarming to see the instant change in her as soon as her mum arrives.

 

SIL's tried the naughty step and time out, but she doesn't stick to them and doesn't follow through when she says it's time for the naughty step. So out neice knows it's meaningless.

 

I know it must be torture to have a child just scream and scream at you, but she can't carry on like this. I'm worried about how her character is developing, because she's a really lovely, funny and cleaver child. But as I said we don't have her all the time.

 

So what advice can I give my SIL please? all ideas would be gratefully recieved.

[bluekarin]

Do you think that maybe your niece is getting a bit confused about what the boundaries are, and is pushing them where she knows she can, ie at home with mum? If she is staying at several places throughout the week, she'd have worked out where she can get her own way. Like you say, she's a clever girl. Her mum needs to be firm and do the same bedtime routine that you do when she comes to stay. I think that when she is over at yours once a fortnight she sees it as a treat and so they will be on her best behaviour. I noticed this when I looked after my niece for my sister. The first time, she was an angel, but after that, her natural, er, character came out

 

What I think needs to happen, and you've already said as much, is your SIL needs to say no and mean it, and not give in for an easy life. Because, it will get harder and harder the older her daughter gets. The naughty step works wonders, with one minute for every year of her age.

 

As for sleeping in her own bed, SIL just needs to be firm. It will only (I say only like it's be easy, but it won't) but in the big scheme of things it will only be a few nights and then she'll be sleeping in her own bed and your SIL can go to bed when she wants to.

 

Also, it might be a good idea for your SIL to go and talk to her daughters teachers and see how best to go about the reading and correcting problem. I found with mine when they started school, they saw their teachers as these wonderful people who know EVERYTHING! And if I was to correct them about something that the'd misheard, no no no, mummy! Mrs so and so said its that!

 

I hope thats of somehelp Good luck!

[Plum]

It sounds like she's expressing her distress and insecurities with her mum because she is the person who will always forgive and love her. Seems to me she's a troubled child and needs help and her mum needs help to cope with her. Can her health visitor access support for them to manage the situation.

 

I think most children are different away from their own home. People used to tell me how great my kids were when I was having a hard time with one of them as teenager answering me back and being assertive.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Guest

[Seagazer]

After having major sleep problems with my eldest (never slept through the night for 4 years) I was completely different with the youngest two and set very firm boundaries.

 

I think the problem is that your niece is picking up on her mum's troubles and mental health problems, we all know the kids always seem to behave worse when we are not quite right for whatever reason. I really think perhaps she should try her health visitor for some help. We've probably all watched that Supernanny and seen some parents who are just not coping and the children behave awfully. Its like a vicious circle. I think your SIL has to try to sort herself out before she'll be able to help her daughter.

 

I

[craftyhunnypie]

I'm not mum, but have been a nanny. I've always found that school does shake it out of them. At that age they seem to get frustrated a lot as some children are just ready for school & it's routines.

Perhaps more time away from mum would do her good, maybe at a nursery or similar. Or indeed with a nanny.

Not all nannies are mums, but I get praised even now about how the children turned out through my care & guidance.

 

I wouldn't know what else to suggest, as I do think she is really trying your SIL. She is attention seeking & needs some sort of structure & routine to her day as well as some discipline. I'm not saying your SIL is a bad parent, but perhaps she should seek some help to learn parenting skills & how to truly follow through disciplining your neice.

 

I hope this can be sorted for your SIL's health & mental state.

 

Emma.x

[Willow]

I found Dr Christopher Greens book Toddler Taming to be very good at reminding me the common sense approach. That covers the first four years so she may find the next book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyond-Toddlerdom-Keeping-twelve--year-olds/dp/0091816246/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291199166&sr=1-6 more useful. If you think your SIL would read it a book is a good way of making the advice more objective. Both books are readable and sensible advice with no trendy theories.

[chickencam]

It sounds to me like she could do with some support to help her put realistic boundries in place and stick to them. There are some organisations out there that can help with this. I think that one is called Parent line. I t would help if she had someone to turn to whatever the time of day or night to help her keep focus.

 

She needs to decide which behaviours matter the most and need to be changed and tackle these first. Firm boundaries are important and will only take a couple of weeks to make a major difference. I had trouble with my YD from around that age until about the age of 10, she is still volatile but understands her boundaries and will now come and apologise if she has had an outburst. Sleeping is a difficult one but it is so important to at least make sure that she stays in her own room. My YD still doen't sleep much but she doesn't disturb anyone else and catches up when she needs to.

[goodinparts]

As the school has already noticed that she has some problems, it's really worth your SIL going in to talk to them. They will have a whole range of ways in which they can help...eg the school where I'm a Governor has access to a really excellent parenting course, which seems to make a huge difference to life for both parents and kids, through offering a variety of strategies to enable parents to stay in control no matter what. There's also the possiblity of drawing on other expertise - child psychologists etc....which isn't as dramatic as it sounds, truly. Your niece has had a bit of disruption in her life, and enlisting a few experts to help at this stage could make all the difference in solving the problem before things escalate.

Do hope she gets the support she needs. Parenting - not for the fainthearted!

[CatieB]

I think from your post that you already know the answer, its just getting the mum to do it.

 

She needs to be consistent.. say something and mean it. NEVER threaten what you wont do and remain resolute and calm. I would suggest she takes one issue at a time and then if she can remain consistent she will quickly see results and be able to use that as motivation for the next issue.

 

For example I would suggest that tackling the sleep issue should be a priority so that they can all feel better and a mum with sleep will be better able to deal with the other problems. Explain to her that it will get worse before it gets better but a few hideous nights are worth the investment for a peaceful future. She should explain calmly to daughter during the day that she has to sleep in her own bed and that remains so no matter what. It is essential that mum doesn't then engage or respond to anything including a tantrum. Calmly put her back in her own bed... a million times if need be. Daughter will eventually learn that she is not getting a reaction. It wont be easy and will need firmness but it will work. Would you or someone be able to stay over initially to encourage mum to be firm and to continue even though its getting tough?

 

There is a book that a lot of the parenting courses use as a model. Its american though so a bit annoying but if you can get beyond that it gives you the simplest system to use. The book is longer because it gives you examples and shows you how it works but it is so quick to pick up. Our local authority is running courses on it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/1-2-3-Magic-Effective-Discipline-Children/dp/1889140163/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1291285798&sr=8-2

[CatieB]

PS I also meant to say that if she does start tackling it, a good mantra to keep reminding herself is ignore the bad behaviour and praise the good. Daughter will quickly learn that the only attention she is getting comes from good behaviour. By the way, I'm not saying that will be easy, I remember times that I've had to walk away and go to another room to express my annoyance and anger. The point is the child doesn't see the reaction.

 

I really hope it helps

[Sheilaz]

Some great points so far, and I'm glad school seem to be involved.

My instinct is that someone needs to ask Mum how she is, and how she is coping in a demanding situation. An understanding professional (health visitor?) and a friend or relation too, without her feeling judged?

Someone who can let her express it herself and then source the right assistance if necessary, either helping through a temporary blip, or recognising and averting a potential crisis?

[greyhoundgirl]

It's interesing that the pre-school didn't pick anything up.

 

There are lots of places that can offer support to parents; and I think Mum is the one who needs to sort herself out first.

 

Children's Centres will have access to parenting courses and more importantly Portage Plus; who will often come into the home and support the parent, also liasing with the school.

 

As a teacher my gut reaction is that your neice is reacting this way becasue she feels insecure and venerable. Mum really needs to get some positive external support (not medication) and to also speak to the SENCo at her daughter's school. They will hopefully be supportive towards the family unit.

You could also go with her to any meetings, sometimes as a person looking in, it's easier to 'hear' the messages as you are slightly removed.

 

Good luck and remember that yoour SIL is lucky to have you and the support you can offer to her family.

[Steve the Gas]

'Scuse me Miss, you need to check 'venerable'

[sari]

I agree with all above posts, and would also add that there are such schemes as extended schools programmes, offering support, Relate offer family support and counselling, often through school, working on interfamilial relaitionships ( My school offers this, with great success) HomeStart, SureStart.....is SiL MH very bead, does she have a social worker? they may be able to offer help....hope things improve...

[greyhoundgirl]

'Scuse me Miss, you need to check 'venerable'

 

 

Oppps!!

[DebC]

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions

 

I think from your post that you already know the answer, its just getting the mum to do it.

 

She needs to be consistent.. say something and mean it. NEVER threaten what you wont do and remain resolute and calm. I would suggest she takes one issue at a time and then if she can remain consistent she will quickly see results and be able to use that as motivation for the next issue.

 

 

I know she needs to be consistent, but she doesn't have the inner strength. Her MH is reasonably good at the moment, which is what worries me the most. I dread to think how bad it will get with the next dip, and there will be one. Part of the problem is MIL, FIL and other SIL, who just don't believe in Mental Illness, as it can't be seen, and just don't understand that this is a real problem. "pull yourself together" really doesn't help.

 

We do what we can and between us see or speak to her every day. Our neice has always come to our house, so I don't think that she feels she has to be on best behaviour with us. When I say always, I mean always - when she was born SIL was so poorly (she had spent most of her pregnancy sectioned) that they wanted to admit her staright away to the local MH mum abd baby unit, unfortunately they were closed to new admissions due to a bug on the unit. Therefore it was proposed that our neice go into foster care until they could be admitted together. We refused to allow that to happen and she was with us for three weeks (I took unpaid leave to do it). The MH team were great and brought SIL, with a CPN, to our house six days a week for 3 hours plus each time, so she could spend time with her. She'd have seen her for 1-2 hours 2-3 times a week if she'd been in foster care.

 

Anyway, the result is that we have to tread carefully. If SIL is feeling low she feels that we're taking over. I will get her the Dr Green books, as she can have a flick through and the advice won't be coming from me. I'll keep suggesting she talks to the school more and the HV, but she generally distrusts professionals so a Social Worker is out of the question.

 

Thanks for your help and support. I really do appreciate it.

[greyhoundgirl]

Big hugs to you. She is a very lucky person to have your support. Make sure you look after yourself emotionally too.

[greyhoundgirl]

Dont forget to tell her about the Children's Centre's. They also run fun activites for children in the holidays to give parents a bit of a break.

[Powerlady]

Nothing to add apart from good luck, hope it all gets sorted