hopingforchickens Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) Hi, I'm new here, I have been planning to get chickens for the last couple of years and have been putting my plans into action for the last couple of months, now my neighbour has pointed out a covenant on the deeds of our house prohibiting them (I know I should have checked). However other people have told me these are almost impossible to uphold. Does anyone know if this is true? I'm currently trying to talk to my neighbour to show her we will be responsible hen owners (I only want 4) and are building a purpose built enclosure for them so that they can't escape into her garden, but she is worried about the noise. I'm hoping to persuade her to agree to a two month trial, to demonstrate how good they can be (and possibly bribe her with some eggs!), but what if she flatly refuses? Is that the end of my hen dreams? If anyone has some good advice I would be very grateful... Thanks Edited May 24, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy chick Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Don't know tbh. I don't think it's the law as such but still a rule Your neighbour sounds a bit mean though Tell them you won't be getting a cockerel and the girls are quiet as mice (not totally true but don't tell her that ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavenders_Blue Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hopefully someone with some legal expertise will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that your neighbour would have to take you to court for the covenant to be enforced. You can apply to have a covenant taken off your deeds, but I'm not sure what the procedure is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 How old is the covenant? If its a recent one - restrictions imposed when a new housing estate is built for example you'd probably have a harder time getting aorund them, if they are older then someone would need to have an interest in enforcing them - officially we need to get permission to put sheds up on my road but the houses were built in the 30's and everyone has sheds, some even three or four as realistically there is no one that interested in any of us and what we get up to anymore! the best way is to plead 100% inncocence however in your case you have kind of blown your cover by being considerate and telling your neighbour! Most noise complaints need to be backed up and having to get rid of the chickens is very rare indeed, reassure your neighbour that you dont want a cockerel as they may be mistakenly thinking you do Hens arent actually that noisy but they do have their moments, if your neighbour has real concerns then reconsider your plans - is your planned spot for a coop very close to her/under her bedroom window, could you do anything to change the coop location, are you able to shut the coop overnight to keep the noise down? - are the concerns genuine or are they intent on finding a barrier to your hen keeping? if so then in the absence of noise then you may find you get (mostly unfounded) complaints about smell or rats If they are just being difficult then you may find that a constantly complaining neighbour would just make the whole thing stressful and you'd jump at the slightest noise and you'd have to ask yourself if its worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopingforchickens Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hopefully someone with some legal expertise will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that your neighbour would have to take you to court for the covenant to be enforced.You can apply to have a covenant taken off your deeds, but I'm not sure what the procedure is. thanks for the replies, if there is a way to get a covenant taken off the deeds i would love to know about it! i have the number for the land registry so may give them a call, probably won't be able to check again tonight, but keep the suggestions coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52fish Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 We explored all sorts of options and in the end wrote to the developer, who is the only person able to enforce the restriction. They were actually very supportive, but suggested we not keep cockerells to avoid issues on noise pullution. The Allotment Act is referred to by many - it's entirely untested in law. So my advice, write to your developer and speak to your neighbours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken shack Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I am hoping to move and my girls are coming with me along with the cats and possibly two ducks. I am certanly not going to speak to the new neighbours and ask for their consent. The house we plan to buy also has a covenant which prohibits the eretion of fences as a result the gardens look like one large park. Some of the homes have put a small fence close to the back of the house. There was Muntjac deer and wild in the gardens when we visited so I am hoping that a few and 2 pet will be accepted. My direct neighbour where we live now loves my girls and although I live in London the position of my home prevents them from effecting others. They can make a bit of noise in the mornings for this reason I shut the door at night and open it in the moring at 7am. They also make a noise when they lay an egg or a strange cat comes into the garden but on the whole they are much quieter than having a dog. Only my direct neighbour is aware we have them. I try not to draw attention to them. I wouldn't mention to your neighbour again and don't tell her when they arrive what a nice surrprise she will have when you are able to present her with a few fresh . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopingforchickens Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 thanks everyone, forgot to mention the deeds are 36 years old, as yet i've been unable to find out if the builder is still around. does anyone know if my neighbour can take me to court herself for being in breach of the covenant or whether it has to be the builder stated on the deeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 It's most likely that the benefit of the covenants passed to each of the purchasers so that they can enforce it themselves. Your neighbour would have to take you to court, an expensive and lengthy business, but as pointed out above, if you are going to have a lot of stress then it isn't worth it, even if she couldn't afford to take proceedings. Sounds to me as if your neighbour is genuinely worried about the idea of you having hens. I would talk it over again, try and find out exactly what it is that's worrying her - noise (she may not realise that chickens aren't as noisy as cockerels) -is it smell, rats, does she have a bird phobia? See if you can site the coop in the best possible place to avoid her fears, tell her you'll keep the door closed in the mornings and so on. If she's willing to agree a trial, then I think it's worth a try - a lot of people are won over when they actually see chickens. It would be hard for you to give up after two months, but also very hard for her to tell you 'no' after that time as well! Falling out with the neighbours is to be avoided at all costs - it can make your life hell, and blight your house if you want to sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweety Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Sound advice from Olly. If the builder has imposed the same covenant on your neighbour's property, as is usually the case, then she can enforce it against you. The cost involved would probably put her off doing so, but nevertheless I think you would be wise to try and talk to her again rather than embarking upon a course of action which could make life very difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopingforchickens Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Thanks everyone, going to phone the land registry today to see if there is a way of taking the covenant off the deeds and also try and talk to neighbour again, will keep you posted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52fish Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Only people that can remove the covenant is the developer. They're also the only ones that can enforce it. A neighbour would have to go via the original developer if they wanted the covenant enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopingforchickens Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 you see i'm really confused, some people say only the developer can enforce it others that my neighbour can, is there a way of finding out for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Why not consult your solicitor. I'm sure she would be able to assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweety Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 The person who has the benefit of a covenant is the person who can enforce it and release you from it. But if, for example, that person is a builder who has imposed the same covenant on all the houses on his development as is usually the case, then everyone subject to the covenant can also enforce it. Egluntyne is right, the best idea is to ask your solicitor. I'm not sure that the Land Registry will be prepared to advise you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopingforchickens Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 thanks will make some calls this afternoon, it's really stressing me out, i only want 4 little hens in my back garden of course i'm still trying to talk to neighbour myself, she might surprise me and say it's ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I would work very hard at keeping the neighbours onside. Having fallout with neighbours is the pits. Hens can be noisy, search the forum and you will see that there are plenty of members that have had issues trying to keep theirs quite in the early hours. Many are very quiet but is is best to have your neighbours onside. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan08 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I would try your neighbour and see if you can get them onside. Our estate has a few, it was built in the 70's, you are not supposed to park caravans in your driveway, and you are not allowed to take boundary walls to the edge of your property if you are on the edge of a pavement or pathway, the estate is supposed to have an open plan feel. These are all broken regularly on the estate, there are numerous caravans and many people who have planted hedges at the edge of their boundary, then put up walls and fences on the inside. In fact someone just recently didn't even bother with the hedge and went straight for a very ugly fence. It is still there and I know that people did complain. It will only become an issue if someone complains. If there are any other similar covenants on your estate that you know are being broken, then perhaps you could gently point this out to your neighbour, and suggest that it would only be a problem if there is an objection, and ask her if she would mind you keeping a couple of chickens, (couple sounds better than four, break her in gently!) Be prepared though for a reply you don't want to hear. If you ask and it is a point blank no way, then you may find yourself in for a rocky ride if you decide to go ahead anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopingforchickens Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Thanks everyone. Still haven't managed to speak to her yet, think she might be avoiding me (or am I being paranoid?!). Your advice sounds very sensible Duncan. I'm really hoping that when I explain to her what we are planning she will come round (especially if I throw in some 4 and 7 year old emotional blackmail ). Going to try again tonight - after I've cut the grass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billathome65 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 DEFRA allows up to 50 chucks before they are notified and a covenant would be hard to enforce when it is actually legal to keep chucks. I would ask myself why the neighbour drew your attention to this draconian entry could it be that they are worried about noise and pests? As the word British means Children of the covenant ( 99% sure it means that ) your chucks live in Britain so they are also the covenants children Lets know what happens with this it would be good to have an update. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopingforchickens Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 DEFRA allows up to 50 chucks before they are notified and a covenant would be hard to enforce when it is actually legal to keep chucks. I would ask myself why the neighbour drew your attention to this draconian entry could it be that they are worried about noise and pests? As the word British means Children of the covenant ( 99% sure it means that ) your chucks live in Britain so they are also the covenants children Lets know what happens with this it would be good to have an update. Bill will do, hoping to try and go again tonight, her 'friend' is there at the minute, I was hoping to talk to her alone, but maybe she would feel more comfortable with him there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52fish Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Our developer said they wouldn't look to enforce unless we were keeping a cockerell. Their head solicitor also confirmed that only the developer can enforce it, hence neighbours have to complain via the developer to enforce a covenant. If one of several houses, they'll be reluctant to remove. Some small developers will, for a fee. Happy to share which developer in case it helps, but send me a private message and I'll reply. We had exactly the same problem, but the developer was fantastic and even provided a letter we could share with our neighbours saying they supported our decision to keep chickens. Once we had that the stress levels subsided big time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopingforchickens Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Our developer said they wouldn't look to enforce unless we were keeping a cockerell.Their head solicitor also confirmed that only the developer can enforce it, hence neighbours have to complain via the developer to enforce a covenant. If one of several houses, they'll be reluctant to remove. Some small developers will, for a fee. Happy to share which developer in case it helps, but send me a private message and I'll reply. We had exactly the same problem, but the developer was fantastic and even provided a letter we could share with our neighbours saying they supported our decision to keep chickens. Once we had that the stress levels subsided big time! thanks that's really interesting, don't think the name of developer will help though thanks. Our builder seems to not be around anymore, when I spoke to Land Registry today they said I would need to find out who he had passed his interests onto in order to have it removed (not sure how I would do that?!). Anyway just about to go and have a word, I've decided to do the decent thing and if she is still adamant after our chat I will back down and get something else, in the hope we can get some later in life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henergy Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 What a sad situation to be in I do feel for you. I have no idea whether we have a chicken covenant - we just went ahead & all our close neighbours knew before hand except our next door neighbour who we hardly ever see & who is hardly ever there ! Its been 3 months now & yet I still haven't seen her to check that all is ok. I am assuming she'd haev mentioned it if it wasn't ! Besides, our children are much much noisier than the chickens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henergy Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 ps her cat seems to leave various deposits in our garden so fairs fair really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
