Aunty e Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Help! We've just had a letter from our council (who own our freehold) that we have to stop keeping chickens! They say that it's against the terms of our lease, which to be fair is true, but according to our lease we're not allowed to keep ANY animals, especially not cats or dogs, which means everyone is breaking the terms of the lease. And then they told us (in their barely literate letter) that they 'have been advised that to keep such animals and other livestock, we need a license'. Which is a big fat lie. We're wavering between being conciliatory or just hiring a lawyer and taking them to court. Anyone else had this problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starboyhull Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I would write them a letting pointing out that people are keeping other pets and that too is against the lease and these pets are no different..... You could see a solicitor but if it is in the terms of your lease then im not sure what they could do. I think a strong letter form yourselves in the first instance would be better. Be really interested in how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffie Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 yes and you could invite them to see how well you keep them and how clean the eglu is What a worry Good luck! BBx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkleeeeee Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i know this sounds weird but are you sure its actually from the council and not one of your neighbours. i heard of a case of someone doing this near us about dogs when the person who received the letter called the council they couldnt find who wrote it and it turned out to be fake possibly from a neighbour fed up with the barking. if it is genuine somebody has probably complained about you if you know who it is, i bet they have pets. it seems really unfair that you have been targeted and not others who are breaking the rules. you could do some research to see if anybody else has managed to keep chickens against a council lease and use it as amunition. if it was through a court you would have a better leg to stand on and get any neighbours who dont mind you having chickens to support your case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina C Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Oh no - that is a horrible situation to be in. It might be worth consulting with a lawyer but as the clause is there I suppose the council could legally enforce it and you could end up spending loads of money and getting nowhere? Perhaps you could have a word with your neighbours with pets to see if they have received the same letter? Then go to the council and ask them why you have been targeted when everyone has pets and then try and come to some sort of compromise (ie get the conditions of the lease changed if enough people agree?) If you need to, get the council and neighbours round to see how happy your chickens are living as they do and how clean everything is in your garden. And bribe them with eggs of course. Good luck - hope someone with proper legal experience comes along soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couperman Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i know this sounds weird but are you sure its actually from the council and not one of your neighbours. i heard of a case of someone doing this near us about dogs when the person who received the letter called the council they couldnt find who wrote it and it turned out to be fake It sounds fake to me too! I am sure that the council would know that you don't need a license to keep chickens unless you happen to be Bernard Mathews. It has put you in a difficult spot though, if you contact the council they may decide to enforce the conditions of the lease even though they didn't write the letter. Of course unless it was sent recorded delivery and you signed for it, it could quite easily have got lost in the post. If it is genuine you will hear more from them when you don't respond. If it is fake then you may not. Some people have so little in their lives that they like to cause trouble. I doubt the council would bother unless someone complained. And then I think they would visit you to see if the complaint was genuine before sending out a letter, I would like to think they would use good english if they did write. Good luck. Kev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paola Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Excellent points Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starboyhull Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I never thought of it being fake......Although unless someone was pretty good on a pc (and has a decent printer) im sure it would look fake, it will be on proper headed paper and signed by someone and probably have reference numbers on it. you could always do a little research on the person that sent it, the telephone numbes on the letter and even the reference numbers.....If it is real, just play daft...... If it is genuine they will contact you again though, like Kev said. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Sounds dodgy to me too. The fact that it is in poor English might point to it being a fake. Who has signed it? Can you check online if this person exists? Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfrock Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Help! We've just had a letter from our council (who own our freehold) that we have to stop keeping chickens! They say that it's against the terms of our lease, which to be fair is true, but according to our lease we're not allowed to keep ANY animals, especially not cats or dogs, which means everyone is breaking the terms of the lease. And then they told us (in their barely literate letter) that they 'have been advised that to keep such animals and other livestock, we need a license'. Which is a big fat lie. We're wavering between being conciliatory or just hiring a lawyer and taking them to court. Anyone else had this problem? I would definitely get a solicitor to write back to them - because then they can run rings around them regarding everybody else having pets. Unfortunately I am off work this week otherwise I would hopefully be able to help you more - I know people here and there with my job (housing officer). I'll send some emails out later today and see if I can get any advice for you. The letter should give you a deadline to resolve the issue by - how long have they given you? its a tough one given the type of property you live in and the lease you are on - somebody has to have had a whinge for them to know. It's the only way I tend to find out about such things. I am just flying out the door but will be back shortly - if you wish, scan a copy of the letter through to me and I will get as much advice for you as possible. Claire x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlottechicken Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I never thought of it being fake......Although unless someone was pretty good on a pc (and has a decent printer) im sure it would look fake, it will be on proper headed paper and signed by someone and probably have reference numbers on it. you could always do a little research on the person that sent it, the telephone numbes on the letter and even the reference numbers.....If it is real, just play daft...... If it is genuine they will contact you again though, like Kev said. Karl Bearing in mind that someone posted a web address for a site that supplies fake and convincing parking tickets on here recently, I have no doubt that it is possible to fake this type of letter. Let's face it some of those bank emails fool people into handing over their financial details don't they? Also, if a complaint was made to the council, I am not sure they would visit. What are the terms of the letter? Are they saying that someone will come to visit, and what are the consequences of not replying to the letter? I have received emails from my council that look like a chimp has been left to play with the keyboard, so the fact that the spelling and/or grammar is a bit dodgy is no indication of source I am afraid. Be wary, and if you think you can get away without replying, do so, as Kev says you could lead yourself into trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy C Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Perhaps you could consider going to call box and phone the council to check "if there were likely to be any issues with keeping chickens, as you might be interested in getting some because you have seen all the publicity recently." You could even be phoning for a friend. Make the call very general and do not give over any personal information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenlass Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 How horrible!! what an awful thing to do if it is fake. Still horrible if it isn't but as the others have said the fact it is in poor English makes you think it could well be. If you get on with the nieghbours why not approach some of them with pets and get them to group together to complain. Hope you get this sorted quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Perhaps you could consider going to call box and phone the council to check Don't forget to put a grubby hanky over the mouthpiece and wear a trench coat! Just kidding. Pretend to be someone else....don't alert them to the fact that you do in fact keep hens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubereglu Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Do you think it would be worth registering with Defra voluntarily, so in your reply you could say that? Just a thought. Hope it all gets sorted out soon and in your favour too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunty e Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Gosh, thanks for all of the replies! We think it is genuine, because we've been chatting to our neighbourhood housing officer on and off because someone has complained about the chooks. Mostly because they think they're verminous. We invited her round and she agreed, and we have it in writing, that they're not verminous. They can be a bit noisy though, and she agreed that we were doing our best to keep them as quiet as possible in the early morning, and they've not been bad at all recently. Certainly not as noisy as the bin men who wake me at six every three days. Anyway, the letters we've had before are in appalling english. It's not even funny how badly spelt some of them were, and grammar is a very fluid concept at Hackney council. So this one fits in pretty well with the others. Have calmed down a bit now, having realised that the only way they can really stop us is to terminate our lease, which would take them years, particularly as we're model leaseholders in every other respect. We haven't got any kind of a deadline to act by, so in a couple of days we'll send them a nice conciliatory letter explaining that as everyone else kept pets, we assumed we were allowed to do so as well. Then we'll explain that we carefully researched our responsibilities as poultry keepers and we're well within the law, but we're happy to take any steps they want to address their concerns about health and hygiene. Then, if they get nasty, we'll wheel out the big guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starboyhull Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Sounds like a good idea Aunty e, I would have thought it should have a deadline though........Agree that you will get rid of them, say in 30 years?? Surely if they havent given you a deadline that would be agreeing to do it Sounds like you dont really have much to worry about though, if other people keep animals and there is nothing else for them to complain at you for, my friend has been involved with housing in the cheshire area for a while and it does take years to get people out of a house and thats for serious problems, not for things like keeping hens....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 gosh, only just caught up with this ... I agree that poor grammar and spelling doesn't mean it's a fake! In the long run, IF they decided to enforce it, you would be on dodgy ground because as you say, it's a breach of the lease; 'nuff said. That's a long way off, though. I would definitely recommend talking to your neighbours, if you know some of them who are sympathetic; because if they are going to enforce against you, then they must also enforce against everyone else who is in breach of the lease. How many of your neighbours have cats or dogs and would not want to have to get rid of them? See if you can form a sort of pressure group, to ask for the terms of the lease to be amended. I don't know how old your property is, but it's possible that at the time the lease was drawn up, there were good reasons for this restriction. Do hope you manage to get some sympathy from others in your street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahJo Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Isn't this really strange in a world where everyone is pushing for recycling and reducing carbon footprints. Chooks are the most efficient recyclers I know . Ben is doing WW2 at school, time when rations meant chooks in the garden and self-sufficiency were everything, that big wheel has just done full circle, and who cleans up the disease and mess cats leave(no offence to cat owners - just making a point), on this council land . Hope it all goes away Aunty-e best wishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couperman Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Aunty-E, you could always try the, 'those don't belong to me they are wild sparrows that have eaten a bit too much and taken up residence in my child's lovely plastic playhouse. It's not wrong to feed wild birds is it? I am not keeping any pets they are free to leave whenever they choose!, it's hardly my fault if they don't want to!' Sorry to make light of it, I thought it might cheer you up. Kev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xChicken04x Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Thats just ridiculous!!!!! its just like having wild birds in your garden only more perminent. The media goes on about how we are supposed to become more "green" but how are we supposed to do that when they just take these things away from us. Take it to court!!! thats what i say!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlottechicken Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 How awful that someone has complained about your chooks They will have their work cut out trying to terminate your lease, if, like you say, everyone else has pets too You could also stress in your letter that they are pets and are helping you towards your goal of a carbon neutral lifestyle Glad you are calmer now Aunty e Good luck, I think I can safely say we are all behind you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocchick Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Did you see my gate/council thread? I sympathise and I'm on a mission never to let the lady down the road know we keep chickens as fear the complaints she could make. I'm sure we can keep chooks though. How horrible, I can't imagine what I'd do if someone tried to take my chickens off me Anyway, our approach is with our local councillor who is hopefully going to the local papers. A possible approach was to innundate the department with 100s of reports of gates in our case, possibly get people to volunteer their own gates in the cause, or make complaints about councillor's gates (if we could find their details) as the gate (and no doubt pets) situation is very common. It seems to be a way of dealing with a complaint about the gate/chicken to say that you are breaking a law but not to enforce with anyone else. Our letter left me with lots of questions, they ignored my email (being investigated) and didn't make much sense although the English was good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Did you see my gate/council thread? I sympathise and I'm on a mission never to let the lady down the road know we keep chickens as fear the complaints she could make. I'm sure we can keep chooks though.How horrible, I can't imagine what I'd do if someone tried to take my chickens off me Anyway, our approach is with our local councillor who is hopefully going to the local papers. A possible approach was to innundate the department with 100s of reports of gates in our case, possibly get people to volunteer their own gates in the cause, or make complaints about councillor's gates (if we could find their details) as the gate (and no doubt pets) situation is very common. It seems to be a way of dealing with a complaint about the gate/chicken to say that you are breaking a law but not to enforce with anyone else. Our letter left me with lots of questions, they ignored my email (being investigated) and didn't make much sense although the English was good. Walk round your area and take photos to support your case Chocchick. The camera never lies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Sorry to hear about your letter AuntyE - but sounds like a good plan of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
