Is my pekin bantam male or female?

[helen_molly]

I'm about to become a first time chicken keeper and trying to decide between 3 rescue hens, followed by 3 pullets (probably welsummers) when the rescues have settled in - or just 6 rescue hens.

 

Just read this blog which states you should never add new adult hens to your flock (just breed your own - which I don;t intend to do any time soon!). The mostly seem concerned about infection (particularly mycoplasm) and suggest several weeks of quarentine, which I can't imagine doing with my set up. I have a large dog crate that I could put new chickens in inside the run during the day - but obviously this wouldn't help with infection control, just introductions.

 

I also know your can't let your flock drop to only one (too lonely) so not sure what is best.

 

Does anyone have any advice - is this article just scaremongering? Is several weeks quarentine necessary and how do people manage this?

 

Many thanks for your advice

 

 

 

http://www.bloglovin.com/frame?post=2728895179&group=0&frame_type=a&blog=5203869&link=aHR0cDovL25hdHVyYWxjaGlja2Vua2VlcGluZy5ibG9nc3BvdC5jb20vMjAxNC8wNC93aGF0LWdvZXMtYXJvdW5kLW5hdHVyYWwtcHJldmVudGlvbi1vZi5odG1s&frame=1&click=0&user=0

[Lavenders_Blue]

I have done several sets of introductions, and whilst quarantine is ideal, I will confess to never having done it. Just be aware that there is the potential to bring in disease. Although in reality if you are bringing in birds from vaccinated stock, the risk should be small.

[Olly]

'Never say never' is one of my mottos! If you read this forum you will find many posts about introducing new hens. You will also find a few about mycoplasma. Without going into all the ins and outs of whether this is already in the flock and brought out by stress - most of us on here don't run a 'closed' flock. It's simply not possible, like you I am not able to breed chicks and that brings its own set of problems anyway, so from time to time you have to add new hens. Quarantining new hens is a good idea, and a dog crate is fine for that purpose and for introductions. It's best to keep them apart at first anyway to reduce bullying.

 

That blog isn't written by a suburban UK chicken keeper, which is what most of the forum members are - we don't have those sort of options. Please don't be put off, but do read the sticky on introductions.

[Redwing]

there is some debate about mixing vaccinated (your ex barn hens) and unvaccinated (the Welsummers) however lots have done this sucessfully

 

I have heard of flocks decimated by one vaccinated bird but have heard of a lot more where things have been fine

 

Its a risk you take. Its a risk I took even as a breeder of pure breed birds, I wont bring in fresh vaccinated pure bred blood but I do have some ex batts knocking around the place who would have been vaccinated and I am happy with my choices

 

I think your plan is a sound one, get the ex batts/barn first and get them healthy then add the pure breed birds. Make sure you choose your breeder of the latter carefully to minimise problems

[helen_molly]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'll keep reading up on this stuff.

One more question - Why is it that only hybrids seem to get vacinated?

[Redwing]

The environment in which many hybrids are kept is sometimes less than ideal. 4000 birds in one shed, little exercise etc, it may be climatically controlled etc but imagine the rate at which a respiritory disease would go through that many birds and the loss of egg production as a result

 

Vaccines will be administered to hybrids as a couse, mostly sprayed on batches of birds before the age of six weeks.

 

To do the same to a small hatch would be cost prohibitive due to the different types of vaccines and the package sizes (ie for a thousand birds etc)

 

Most pure breeds are kept in better conditions, more space, fresh air and exercise and in smaller numbers so its less critical to vaccinate these

 

Indeed many breeders (me included) argue that vaccination may cover up weaknesses in a strain of birds and that by selecting only the fittest and healthiest birds that produce good strong chicks you will build a naturally resistant flock

[Millie-Annie]

I think my pure breeds were vaccinated but they were from a big set up and there were lots and lots of them in barns. It wasn't ideal to be honest and I wouldn't buy from there again.

 

Just checked this is what mine were vaccinated against

 

 

Period

Vaccine

Disease treated

Day 1

Poulvac MD-Vac HVT

Mareks disease

Day 1

Paracox-8

coccidiosis

Day 7

Poulvac NDW

Newcastles disease

Day 35

"Ooops, word censored!"ilis 6/85

mycoplasma gallisepticum (roup)

Day 45

"Ooops, word censored!"ilis IB 491

Infectious bronchitis

 

 

My biggest concern is Welsummers with ex-batts. Welsummers are quite shy, docile birds, not sure they would be happy to meet bullying ex-batts. Or maybe I just have an extra shy Welsummer

[Purplemaniacs]

I have a mixture of hybrids, ex batts and bantams that I hatched almost 2 years ago so not vaccinated. I have not had any problems.

 

Chrissie

[Space Chick]

I have a mix of bantams, large fowl pure breeds, hybrids and ex batts.

 

Some people say you should NEVER mix bantam and large fowl! mine all get along great.

 

I have done loads of introductions over the years, and keep a rabbit run within the walk in run for this purpose. However, my last two introductions have been in nice weather and I've just let new girls free range with old girls, watched for nastiness, checked the new girls have been eating and drinking, seen that there were no issues to be concerned at and left them to it!

 

I have a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated birds and have not had a issue.... The one exception, I have lost 2 unvaccinated Silkies to Mareks over the years.... As a result, I will ALWAYS ensure any Silkies are Mareks vaccinated as they are so prone.... In fact when I hatched Silkies a few years ago I bought the Mareks vaccine even though the smallest dose was for 1000 chicks and I'd hatched 5 Silkies

 

Other hens I've hatched later I have not vaccinated against anything.

 

So I say, don't worry. Get your ex batts/barns healthy and then add the welsummers later.

[Beantree]

I'd better add the other side of the coin HelenMolly. We introduced hybrids to an established flock of Pedigrees and Blackrocks. The Pedigrees and Blackrocks were not immunised, the new hybrids were. Whist they were still in quarantine the new stressed hybrids shed the ILT and IB immunisation viruses to our flock downwind. The result was an incredibly sick flock for two weeks, a £200 vet bill and a loss of egg quality caused by IB. Fortunately they all survived, but these viruses are meant to be introduced in stages to chicks, not both at the same time to adults. Our cockerel has had ILT flareups ever since and some loss of vision in one eye.

 

Perhaps introduced the other way, Pedigrees to Hybrids, there won't be a problem.

 

Thereafter we ran two separate flocks. Infected and Not.

[Egluntyne]

Just take sensible precautions, and above all, quarantine any new birds for a couple of weeks. As myco can be passed on by wild birds, which can be carriers, but not necessarily affected by it, unless you keep your hens in a sterile bubble, they will always have a chance of being infected.

[Chickabee]

I've got a mixture of vaccinated and unvaccinated. A couple of my pure breeds are vaccinated. I've had 2 die one vaccinated hybrid succumb to Cocci and one unvaccinated pure breed got Mareks. Luckily neither of the above affected the rest of my flock

[Choo-chook]

Hi, sorry I don't know anything about the vaccination problem but just wanted to say, I got my first chickens last year and it's fantastic. If I was in the same position as you I'd probably just get the 6 exbats to start with as it would be less stressful for yourself than having a separate pen with pure breeds, and then having to go through introductions after a short period. I hate to say it but exbats do seem to have a much shorter life expectancy than the pure breeds so you might find you have space for pb's sooner than you think and you'll have some experience behind you to cope with integrating them.

In my (limited) experience I'd make it the easiest when starting out then you'll enjoy it more.

Good luck (wish I had space for exbats)

[Beantree]

It occurred to me that Myco and ILT have similar symptoms. Both get bubbles in the eyes. I wonder how many times they have been confused?

[sjp]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'll keep reading up on this stuff.

One more question - Why is it that only hybrids seem to get vacinated?

hybrids have to be vaccinated by law partly because of the way they are kept but also because in the UK and most of the EU eggs produced commercially aren't washed as they aren't stored in a cold environment at any stage until they get to the consumers kitchen as it's EU/UK thought that it's more likely to cause bacterial contamination if the eggs are subject to warming and cooling between the retailer and the consumer's kitchen. they don't allow commercially produced eggs to be washed basically because they don't trust the egg producers to change the water often enough

or to keep it at the right temperature

American hybrids aren't vaccinated partly because the egg industry thinks it's to costly and partly because eggs have to be washed and stored at a low temperature by law