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[Mrskirchin]

Now, I think I already know the answer to this, but just wanted to ask all of you lovely lot.

 

Busy body has obviously gone to the council about the chooks, as I have had an email. No problems as such, just a form to sign and send back saying I agree to their rules.

 

However, one of their rules is that by the 1st September each year, I will provide a certificate of health from a vet, to prove each chicken has had full blood work done to inspect health, and each has had yearly vaccinations.

 

What are your thoughts on this rule?

[miller30]

Hi ive never heard that before that could end up costing you a lot of money vet trips etc your council is crazy you cant vaccinate birds every year like you do a cat or a dog im speechless for once lol leanne

[Egluntyne]

Never heard this one before either. All totally unnecessary and a knee jerk reaction to heaven knows what.

[sjp]

that isn't even a requirement for a commercial set up is it?

[jimnpaula]

Whose rules? Mr busybody or the council? I suspect the council would be easier to negotiate with! You could stall them a little by asking what transmissible diseases the vaccinations are supposed to prevent and which vaccinations they recommend. Then you can research exactly why your chickens wouldn't need them.

 

(And then if it were me, I would be planning how to keep the girls at home and away from interfering busybodies - it might be he gets what he wants but at least I'd be sure they're safe, but that's just me.)

[Olly]

I agree - go back to the Council and ask exactly what vaccinations?

 

It's my understanding that chickens are vaccinated while they are chicks, and that lasts for their relatively short lifetime - there is no need for repeat vaccinations. Nor should there be any need for blood work or health checks.

 

Ask them please to give you the reference to the statute/regulation that requires this, as you have asked around the chicken-keeping community and "Ooops, word censored!"ody is aware of any such requirement.

[The Dogmother]

Never heard this one before either. All totally unnecessary and a knee jerk reaction to heaven knows what.

 

I agree, a load of twaddle thought up by someone who knows nowt about poultry keeping Almost all hybrids are vaccinated straight after hatching, and until around 16 weeks, when they go out to suppliers. They are vaccinated against around 10 different diseases.

 

I see that you live not far from me - if you ever get to Banbury and need an expert opinion, then Clive Madeiros of West Bar Vets is one of the country's leading poultry experts; he lectures all over the country and I'm sue he'd be happy to provide an opinion.... especially if it involves educating a council

 

I'm not quite sure what they are trying to achieve, but so long as you can demonstrate a thorough husbandry and cleaning regime, and that you have a covered run in case you need to confine them, then they really have nothing to worry about.

[Lewis]

I agree it sounds ridiculous and whoever's rules they are need educating.

 

They shouldn't need yearly vaccinations and the suggestion of yearly bloods is also ridiculous - I'd like to know who they propose pays for the consult and blood test fees!

[Beantree]

Your Council are talking total rubbish Mrskirchin. I don't know what they are hoping to achieve? As said there are no annual vaccinations. If they are immunised it is for life as young chicks and that only protects the birds from ill health, not the public. They can be screened for salmonella, but the testing is expensive. A vet health check is also expensive, as you can imagine.

 

You could go one step better and register with DEFRA Animal Health. This is not compulsory if you have less than 50 chickens, but may be advisable in this case. You don't have to be a commercial operation. You will be given a registration number and the inspector will check your premises every year or so. They will be looking for a rat control programme, safe food storage, waste disposal and general poultry housing conditions. No big deal really and they will give you all the advice you need. Worth looking into. Of course you will notified of Avian Influenza and Newcastle Disease lockdowns, but that won't really affect you.

 

Then you can tell the Council that you are an officially DEFRA regulated premises!

[Pottage]

Clive Madeiros is also our vet. He is very, very good, certainly worth seeking his opinion.

 

Lola had blood work done when she was incredibly ill (Clive saved her life ) and not only is it expensive (you are looking at £140 per chook, just for the bloods), it is horribly stressful for your girls. It involves them being put on their back with a wing stretched out, and the blood is taken from a large vein on the underside of the wing. It's not very nice to watch, and worse for your hen to have to suffer. Hen's also bleed a lot, and Clive told me if a vet is not entirely sure what they are doing the hen can bleed out quickly.

[Beantree]

We had all ours tested for 4 strains of Salmonella in the Commercial Vet manner Pottage describes. I held each in turn while the vet nicked a vein under the wing, very skilfully I add, to then fill a small vial with the flowing blood. At the end of it all I was covered in blood but fortunately all the birds seemed undisturbed by it, although I was rather worried about the bantams who had to give the same amount by the same method. I put them each back in the run in turn and the others rushed up to drink the blood that was still flowing! They were not all negative after being tested using the cheap method so some were retested using a second far more expensive method. This didn't require further samples fortunately.

 

Not something I want to go through, or the birds to go through again.

[Pottage]

Oooo I think Lola must have been very lucky then because she didn't bleed at all after she had had her sample taken. Clive did took hers with a hyperdermic, whist the nurse held her down, then I had to hold a bit of cotton wool on the vein for a bit until it stopped bleeding. No blood anywhere other than in the pot.

 

I was shocked at the amount he took as well. He just kept going and going with the sample! I was looking at my little chicken and thinking she couldn't have much more left in her

[Pottage]

But anyway, we digress. Yearly bloods is a stupid demand (Lola was being tested for white blood cell count, for cancer. Negative, thank God). I would certainly challenge the council.

 

That said, before you create too much of a fuss I would check your house deeds. I’ve previously lived in properties that specifically state you can’t keep poultry, or anything other than a “conventional cat or dog”. It’s quite common in houses built after the 1950’s apparently. I don’t really know who would enforce this (the chicken police?), but it will probably pay to get all your facts together and not leave anything they could blindside you with.

[sjp]

this is a link to Birmingham City Councils Allotment page towards the bottom there's a couple of downloadable copies of their guidelines for poultry on their sites. their about the stickiest around here but it'll give you some idea as to what most reasonable councils ask of poultry keepers plus their one of the few that make it easy to find their guidelines http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite/greenfingers?packedargs=website%3D4&rendermode=live

[kinsk]

Sounds to me like a classic case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

Like everyone else has said I would throw the ball back into their court and ask them exactly what specific vaccinations they want you to be using annually, where the recommendations for annual vaccination have come from, what the legislation behind it is and exactly what diseases they want the blood screening to include.

 

My guess is they don't have a clue what they are talking about and wont know how to reply.

[Lewis]

You could go one step better and register with DEFRA Animal Health. This is not compulsory if you have less than 50 chickens, but may be advisable in this case. You don't have to be a commercial operation. You will be given a registration number and the inspector will check your premises every year or so. They will be looking for a rat control programme, safe food storage, waste disposal and general poultry housing conditions.

We've been registered for over 5 years and never had a visit - not heard of anyone else registered having had a visit before now either.

 

The most we've had is a letter asking for updated information and yesterday I received an email with some precautions to take regarding Avian Influenza.

 

 

I agree with kinsk, push back to the council asking for exact details of annual vaccinations and blood tests they suggest; I'd be interested to hear their reply.

[Egluntyne]

I'd also ask for details of the qualifications of the person advising them.

[gavclojak]

I'd also ask for details of the qualifications of the person advising them.

 

Probably some pen pusher without a clue about hen husbandry who has a degree in something no one has ever heard of